Metro Vancouver Transit Discussion

[aberdeen5698]

Just noticed this electronic sign at the northbound bus stop on Main Street at the Skytrain station. Interesting, but it seems like it would be pretty expensive to outfit even a small percentage of bus stops this way. Perhaps they're only planning to do the stops at selected Skytrain stations?



My photo, taken on August 8.

[The Lonely Tanner]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

Just noticed this electronic sign at the northbound bus stop on Main Street at the Skytrain station. Interesting, but it seems like it would be pretty expensive to outfit even a small percentage of bus stops this way. Perhaps they're only planning to do the stops at selected Skytrain stations?

It's part of the Main Street Bus Demonstration project. They're all up and down South Main.

That demonstration project should be wrapping up soon - what were the results? Does anyone know?

[andcarne]

Originally Posted by The Lonely Tanner

It's part of the Main Street Bus Demonstration project. They're all up and down South Main.

That demonstration project should be wrapping up soon - what were the results? Does anyone know?

I asked Ken Hardie about this over Twitter, about 6 months ago, and his response was: "In time, yes...at least on the main routes. The new radio system with GPS on every bus makes it all possible."

I work with planners at TransLink on a weekly basis right now. I'll ask one of them next time I get a chance.

[djh]

Originally Posted by The Lonely Tanner

It's part of the Main Street Bus Demonstration project. They're all up and down South Main.

That demonstration project should be wrapping up soon - what were the results? Does anyone know?

"Wrapping-up"? As in "they'll be getting rid of it"? They'd better not!
That'd be like one step forward and then two steps backwards to pontificate about the next step...

[CLC]

Originally Posted by andcarne

I asked Ken Hardie about this over Twitter, about 6 months ago, and his response was: "In time, yes...at least on the main routes. The new radio system with GPS on every bus makes it all possible."

I work with planners at TransLink on a weekly basis right now. I'll ask one of them next time I get a chance.

isn't similar system already set up for suburban buses' stop at Highway 99/Stevenson Highway?

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by djh

"Wrapping-up"? As in "they'll be getting rid of it"? They'd better not!
That'd be like one step forward and then two steps backwards to pontificate about the next step...

I think he means they've reached the end of the evaluation period for the Main Street Bus Demonstration project, and will now use the info gathered to decide if all the elements studied in the Demonstration project (or just some parts) can be used on other major bus routes in Vancouver.

As I recall, the Main Street Bus Demonstration project was to run for several years, and included GPS on the buses, the Next Bus Arrival signs, the bus stop & sidewalk bump-outs, and other concepts.
Here's Translink's blurb: http://www.translink.ca/en/Plans-and-Projects/Urban-Showcase/Main-Street.aspx

[SpongeG]

B.C. pilots dynamic transit display

By: Jennifer Kavur On: 09 Aug 2010 For: ComputerWorld Canada



Transit riders standing on the corner of Highway 99 and Stevenson Highway in a suburb of Vancouver no longer have to wonder if they were forgotten by the bus.

A 46-inch LCD television screen, recently installed at the southbound bus stop on Highway 99, displays a map of the route with real-time markers of approaching buses and estimated arrival times based on real-time data.

The dynamic transit display is the first of its kind in the area and part of a pilot project from the British Columbia Ministry of Transportation and Infrastructure, Tropos Networks Inc. and Novax Industries Corp.

Based at Bridgeport station, a part of the Canada Line that runs from Richmond to downtown Vancouver, the IP-based system tracks express buses that leave the station for the Highway 99 / Stevenson Highway stop, said Frank Suto, director of corporate development at Novax.

The system updates bus positions once every second and the real-time data is then interpreted and driven to the display, he said. “A lot of the systems out there really just parrot the schedule … here we are going one step beyond that. In other words, if the bus is not on the route, it would not show up on the system,” he said.

Buses traditionally are “not the easiest things to keep track of” because of their movement, but this system is “as real-time as you can get,” said Suto. If a bus gets stuck in traffic or an accident occurs on the highway, for example, the display will re-calculate the arrival time for passengers waiting at the stop.

The system uses Novax’s InfoPOD software and runs on a wireless broadband mesh network, which Novax is sourcing through Sunnyvale, Calif.-based Tropos Networks. The network extends roughly five miles south of Bridgeport station in a corridor-like shape along the highway, said Suto.

The pilot is an extension of a project that Novax and Tropos also worked on together in the City of Vancouver, which installed a wireless mesh network along Main Street to provide traffic-light priority to buses, he said. “We also tie into their schedules so if a bus is behind schedule, we do not give it priority,” he said.

“Getting stuck at a red light is probably one of the biggest contributors to unproductive delays,” said Suto. A productive delay, he said, is stopping to pick up and drop off passengers.

...

http://www.itworldcanada.com/news/waiting-for-a-bus/141268

[deasine]

Another one to through at you. I didn't even know about the Bridgeport one until it was mentioned here. Funny how TransLink hasn't released any information yet.

Novax InfoPOD: Real-Time Dynamic Transit Information at Hwy 99 and Steveston Hwy

Novax Industries (Novax) announces that its pilot project with the Ministry of Transportation and Infrastructure demonstrating the use of real-time dynamic passenger information for transit users is operational at the southbound Highway 99 and Steveston Highway bus stop in Richmond, B.C.
This innovative display delivers up-to-the-minute southbound bus arrival information for bus riders at the bus stop.

Novax developed special software that links buses leaving the Bridgeport Canada Line station with an outdoor LCD display located over five miles away at the Highway 99 and Steveston Highway bus stop. Moving buses constantly report their position and speed through an IP broadband wireless mesh network to a computer within the display itself. The computer calculates a continuously updated estimated time to arrival based on the position and speed of approaching buses. Time to arrival and the exact location of each bus is displayed on a map in real-time. Novax’s InfoPOD approach is unique as transit information displays typically reflect the schedule only. InfoPOD utilizes real time dynamic information based on each bus’s location and progress through traffic to accurately predict bus arrival times.

Should a bus be delayed as a result of traffic congestion, accidents or other unpredictable events, the time to arrival increases to reflect what’s happening in real time. To make the time to arrival information more relevant, InfoPOD takes information management once step further by displaying the location and movement of approaching buses on a highly visible intuitive map.

Future development should make it possible for passengers with smart phones to access the information displayed at each InfoPOD equipped stop through special smart phone apps. In addition the InfoPOD system will be able to deliver unique messages and information to passengers at a specific stop as well as general public information such as Amber Alerts.

For this pilot project Novax, in concert with the Ministry of Transportation and Infrastructure extended the IP broadband wireless mesh network that was installed by Novax for transit signal priority (TSP) around Bridgeport Station, south along Highway 99 to Steveston Highway. Novax also installed the specially programmed outdoor LCD display at the stop. The Ministry of Transportation and Infrastructure is working with TransLink and Coast Mountain Bus Company to gauge interest and acceptance.

For the Bridgeport Station project an IP broadband wireless mesh network connects buses to traffic signal controllers. As buses leave the Highway 99 they send a request to traffic signal controllers to keep the traffic signal green as long as possible to enable buses to reach Bridgeport Station with minimal delay. A similar process is repeated as buses leaving Bridgeport Station send requests to traffic signal controllers to keep the traffic signal green on their way to Highway 99.

Novax’s TransPOD system does this with minimal impact on other traffic. In addition to the Bridgeport Station project, Novax installed TransPOD with an IP broadband wireless mesh network to improve the on-time performance of nearly 80 public transit buses along busy Main Street.

Point to point RapidBus BC bus service is a core component of The Provincial Transit Plan. Nine corridors are designated for RapidBus BC in the plan. RapidBus BC will integrate with rapid transit networks or form the core transit service in some communities. Accurate real time passenger information is an important service element of the RapidBus BC plan.

(Mass Transit Mag)

Interesting to note that we have tried a few different transit location/priority systems and we haven't really stuck to one type yet.

It started with the 98 B-Line, which used equipment from a variety of companies, Novax and the infamous Siemens OnStreet System. The Siemens OnStreet one, I would say, was a complete failure. Remember the inaccurate displays? Even the time is still displayed incorrectly at some stops.

Then, we went with INIT for our entire fleet of buses (the stop display, GPS locator, etc.) and I guess Novax provided the green-light signal priority portion of the Main Street program. I'm not a frequent user of the 3 trolley, I'm sure someone else can verify, but from my experience with the Main Street INIT NextBus displays have been spot on accurate w/ very few bugs. I did notice that TransLink removed a few of the displays though... not quite sure why.

A complete different technology, but our Canada Line ones are provided by Mitron and have also been very accurate.

And now, it looks like we are piloting out this new display. I'm kind of wondering why they chose Steveston & Hwy 99 and not Bridgeport Stn itself since it would be a lot more useful there. Great to see that they are using LCDs, but since I haven't seen the display itself, I hope it's vandal proof. A lot of systems now are using LCDs for even surface public transport, including Melbourne. I also hope that, if they haven't already, these LCDs can display bus route information (i.e. the upcoming bus) and potentially how long it takes to get to different stops along the route.

Anyone got better pics?

[CLC]

Buses return to Granville— somewhat

By Frank Luba, The Province August 10, 2010 3:02 PM

Buses are coming back to Granville Mall after Labor Day — except for weekends and holidays after 9 p.m.

TransLink spokesman Drew Snider explained Tuesday that the trolleys will be diverted on weekends from Granville back to Howe and Seymour Streets, where they currently run on Friday, Saturdays and Sundays.

The buses will also detour on the evenings before a holiday.

The change has been made, according to TransLink, because the Vancouver Police Department wants traffic off Granville and the busy entertainment district during those hours.

A VPD spokesperson was not immediately available for comment on the situation but there have been long-standing issues over conflicts between traffic and the crowds spilling out of bars and restaurants in the area.

Buses were taken off Granville in 2006 while the Canada Line was being built and then remained off as the City of Vancouver completed a facelift of the Granville pedestrian and transit mall.

The mall became a place of celebration during the recent Winter Olympics but the City of Vancouver was reluctant to put a party on the street every weekend afterward, preferring instead to consider occasional events.

Moving the buses to Howe and Seymour isn’t that big a stretch because the overhead power lines are already in place.

Snider said signage would be installed to guide evening commuters to their weekend evening bus stops.

[email protected]

http://www.theprovince.com/Buses+return+Granville+somewhat/3382354/story.html

[deasine]

Not really related to Vancouver, but worth a mention. Hong Kong is proposing an elevated light "metro" system in the Kai Tak development (used to be an Airport) with connections to the existing MTR and rail network. They are currently studying systems in around the world, including Vancouver.

Kai Tak rail line may link to other districts
31 July 2010
South China Morning Post

The Kai Tak development will be served by an elevated rail line that will offer an internal transport system as well as connect to future MTR stations and possibly to nearby neighbourhoods.

The government is assessing several routes for the rail system to be built on the 320-hectare site, which will contain a cruise terminal, residential, commercial and community facilities.

John Chai Sung-veng, director of the Civil Engineering and Development Department, said yesterday it would connect to the Kai Tak and To Kwa Wan stations of the MTR's Sha Tin-Central link. "We are also studying whether it is possible to extend it to the surrounding old districts, including San Po Kong, Wong Tai Sin and Kwun Tong," he said.

Patrick Kwong Hing-ip, project manager of the department's Kowloon development office, said it would be a challenge, because the areas were packed with buildings and streets were narrow.

The government has studied projects in Sydney, Singapore, Tokyo, Vancouver and Miami.

...

(First posted by hksyline of SSC)

[CLC]

^ It is going to be a money-losing experiment for Hongkong, for an area of no more than 100000 population. They have been looking at monorail or similar thing that is not "obstructive" to view.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by jsbertram

As I recall, the Main Street Bus Demonstration project was to run for several years, and included GPS on the buses, the Next Bus Arrival signs, the bus stop & sidewalk bump-outs, and other concepts.

I have a bit of a problem with the electronic bus stop displays because I can see it being awfully expensive to equip all of the bus stops with these signs and then keep them working in the face of vandalism and equipment failures.

There's a better way: Boston made all of it's real-time GPS raw data openly available on the web. Within 5 weeks applications had become available for cell phones to show next-bus arrival times for any stop. Businesses started installing countdown timers in their windows to let people know how much time they had to come in and shop before the next bus came. All at no cost to the transit agency beyond making the data available.

It's a very interesting read: http://pricetags.wordpress.com/2010/05/07/the-ice-cream-shop-solution/

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by CLC

You don't have to get to YVR . I would assume a high percentage of YVR bound commuters board at Waterfront. You can easily notice what kind of people carrying big luggages while waiting at Waterfront platform.

Yeah, but I was thinking something a little more concrete. You also would miss the backpackers. Sure, ten businessmen may get on at Waterfront (or rather, 10 "transit by choice" passengers) but 200 may get on as "transit cuz it's cheaper than a taxi" passengers down the line. That's why I was wondering if anyone had been down to the airport to kind of get a feel for the type of passengers there.

I'd be lying if I didn't say I was disappointed with the passenger types in Seattle. I was hoping to see at least one suit... but then again, it WAS the weekend. I would hope monday morning would result in more business travellers. Saying that, I'm sure that it will improve in time. Vancouver is more of a transit-city. Seattle's fares are cheaper and you can go further for the same amount.

Actually, it seems that most of the US cities have much less expensive transit than Canadian cities, which leads me to believe it's more heavily subsidized and it's more geared to "lower income" transit. I'm not saying that only lower income travellers use it, just what the perception is.

In Honolulu though, another group used the buses... Japanese. Signs on all the buses were in Japanese as well as English and they have no problem using public transit.

[SpongeG]

most people get their taxis paid for by their company so they don't really care what way they go- at least at my old company when they needed to get to the airport they called the taxi company the company had a running account with

[CLC]

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

Yeah, but I was thinking something a little more concrete. You also would miss the backpackers. Sure, ten businessmen may get on at Waterfront (or rather, 10 "transit by choice" passengers) but 200 may get on as "transit cuz it's cheaper than a taxi" passengers down the line. That's why I was wondering if anyone had been down to the airport to kind of get a feel for the type of passengers there.

I went to YVR by using Canada Line about 5 times for different purposes this year. I can honestly say that I have seen backpackers boarded from every Vancouver stations reaching YVR and vice versa. Of course there is no way I can tell the accurate statistics about backpackers vs family vs businessmen.

[nname]

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

Actually, it seems that most of the US cities have much less expensive transit than Canadian cities, which leads me to believe it's more heavily subsidized and it's more geared to "lower income" transit. I'm not saying that only lower income travellers use it, just what the perception is.

Yes. Sound Transit (the one operate the light rail) has a cost recovery of 22.4% on buses, 22.2% on commuter train, and 10.6% on link light rail.

[Gordon]

How do Tanslinlk's cost recovery statistics compsre to Sound Transit's?

[DKaz]

In terms of operating costs (no capital costs), Skytrain is over 100% cost recovery, West Coast express over 90% (maybe 100% with the recent fare hike), and buses about 20 to over 90% depending on which route. Someone posted last year some numbers for all modes of transit.

In regards to the Dynamic display, I hope they develop apps for the iPhone, Android, and Blackberry soon.... the displays will be useful at major transit exchanges for people without smartphones but for many of us with smartphones, this would be highly useful.

[DKaz]

I was going through this list on this website on federal contributions to BC projects:

http://www.buildingcanada-chantierscanada.gc.ca/regions/bc/isf-fsi-proj-eng.php

Some interesting tidbits:

$11.6 million for Metrotown Station
$18.3 million for Expo Line Station Expansion
$24.8 million for ALRT rolling stock

I'm not sure which funding has been provided already, what's future, what's current and what's done (I think the ALRT rolling stock is done). Things like Canada Place Roof Replacement is current. Evergreen Line is a bit of a future although construction should start early next year.

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

most people get their taxis paid for by their company so they don't really care what way they go- at least at my old company when they needed to get to the airport they called the taxi company the company had a running account with

But I think in terms of just getting downtown, it would be awfully tempting to take the train if it's hovering right above you... especially if it's advertised as faster.