Metro Vancouver Transit Discussion

[trofirhen]

You're going to get a whole lot of nay-sayers for any and all reasons; from the practical (such as the mega-mega $$$$$$) to the granola munchers, to the anti-everything-sleek-and-progressive contingent, to the "OH No!!! Cars!!" people.

But as far as I'm concerned, it's just great. Keep on sluggin' j.b.

[djh]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

You're going to get a whole lot of nay-sayers for any and all reasons; from the practical (such as the mega-mega $$$$$$) to the granola munchers, to the anti-everything-sleek-and-progressive contingent, to the "OH No!!! Cars!!" people.

But as far as I'm concerned, it's just great. Keep on sluggin' j.b.

Hmm...being REALISTIC, what tax hike would you be willing to endure in order to have this construction? How many years of construction diversions, road closures, water and electrical stoppages would you consider worthwhile for this project?

And the biggest question: How many people will regularly benefit from this project? If you go to the North Shore daily as a commuter, you'll be paying more (assuming this project is tolled), but really, is that North Shore commuter's commuting needs really that important that we all need to pay for the megaproject?

Oh yeah, you're in Paris, so you wouldn't be paying for any of this...


Personally, as a Vancouver taxpayer, there's no way I would want something like this to go ahead, solely because the cost/benefit ratio is sooooo ridiculously low. What, a chundred thousand people live on the North Shore. a small percentage of them commute across the Burrard Inlet. So we'd be spending several billion - if not tens of billions - to benefit, say, 100,000 people? So that's let say, $5000 per person on the North Shore for a $5billion project. Let's be extremely overly generoys and say 50% of the North Shore residents commute downtown regularly. So now, this project isthe equivalent of taxpayers spending $10,000 per North Shore commuter.
???
If we had $5billion I'd rather we build all of the skytrain projects on the Lower Mainland and benefit a huge number of people and the cost per user would be substantially lower.

Bottom Line: Nobody on the North Shore is complaining how bad their transit connections are. They probably chose to live there *because* it's so inaccessible. However, many people in the Lower Mainland *are* complaining about their transit, so give the squeaky wheel the proverbial oil.

[mrjauk]

Originally Posted by djh

Hmm...being REALISTIC, what tax hike would you be willing to endure in order to have this construction? How many years of construction diversions, road closures, water and electrical stoppages would you consider worthwhile for this project?

And the biggest question: How many people will regularly benefit from this project? If you go to the North Shore daily as a commuter, you'll be paying more (assuming this project is tolled), but really, is that North Shore commuter's commuting needs really that important that we all need to pay for the megaproject?

Oh yeah, you're in Paris, so you wouldn't be paying for any of this...


Personally, as a Vancouver taxpayer, there's no way I would want something like this to go ahead, solely because the cost/benefit ratio is sooooo ridiculously low. What, a chundred thousand people live on the North Shore. a small percentage of them commute across the Burrard Inlet. So we'd be spending several billion - if not tens of billions - to benefit, say, 100,000 people? So that's let say, $5000 per person on the North Shore for a $5billion project. Let's be extremely overly generoys and say 50% of the North Shore residents commute downtown regularly. So now, this project isthe equivalent of taxpayers spending $10,000 per North Shore commuter.
???
If we had $5billion I'd rather we build all of the skytrain projects on the Lower Mainland and benefit a huge number of people and the cost per user would be substantially lower.

Bottom Line: Nobody on the North Shore is complaining how bad their transit connections are. They probably chose to live there *because* it's so inaccessible. However, many people in the Lower Mainland *are* complaining about their transit, so give the squeaky wheel the proverbial oil.

Absolutely agree. 100%. This tunnel would be a colossal waste of money for very little relative benefit. I'd much rather use the money to build, operate and maintain a first-rate public transit system.

[racc]

This the transit forum. Please lets get back on topic. Thanks.

[usog]

Originally Posted by racc

This the transit forum. Please lets get back on topic. Thanks.

Backseat modding ftw

But yeah +1 for nice but unneeded right now for that highway thing.

Originally Posted by nname

Use the 410 then.. marginally longer, but much more reliable (and crowded)... If you're adventitious, transfer to the 301 at Westminster highway overpass can save you at least 10 minutes, although I don't recommend this on westbound trips...

Regarding to transferring in Surrey.. I don't recall missing my connection even once.. although I've only tried about 5 times...

The 301/410 thing is what I actually usually do when getting from No.3 Road area in Richmond to Surrey Central. Depending on the timing, you can save upwards of half an hour if you make it, compared to alternatives. The 430 from Metrotown is actually faster than the 410, and also a better choice than the 321 or 329 and 301 because that connection is extremely hard to make reliably. Just my experiences.

[Zassk]

I haven't used Canada Line in a few weeks (since the frequency experiment in June). Yesterday it seemed that the trains were running every 4 minutes in both directions, rather than 3.5 or whatever it usually is. Has anyone noticed a change recently with the frequency? Perhaps a slight reduction for the summer?

[Political_R]

Originally Posted by Zassk

I haven't used Canada Line in a few weeks (since the frequency experiment in June). Yesterday it seemed that the trains were running every 4 minutes in both directions, rather than 3.5 or whatever it usually is. Has anyone noticed a change recently with the frequency? Perhaps a slight reduction for the summer?

The every 3.5 minutes I believe was a test. I was certain they were running every 3.5 minutes when I was visiting three weeks ago when completing a transit loop around the Lower Mainland. That was my main complaint of C-line, the need for higher frequency. Especially at the 7 pm hour. Every 12 minutes at the ends of the line? Frequencies should be 2.5, 5, and 7. That would add an additional train per hour on the stub ends which is needed.

[DKaz]

They were testing 3 minute frequencies. The usual frequency is 3.5 minutes.

[Zassk]

Yesterday afternoon, both directions appeared to be running every 4+ minutes instead. A train would arrive and the sign would say 4, 8, 12 minutes consistently. Maybe it was just an aberration.

[SpongeG]

gawd we are so spoiled here when 4 minutes is too long wait for us precious vancouver folk

[SpongeG]

One year old: Tell us about your first year on the Canada Line


A smiling passenger gets on the Canada Line rapid transit system Monday afternoon at Vancouver City Centre station. The transit line connects Vancouver with Vancouver International Airport in Richmond.
Photograph by: Jason Payne, The Province

It’s been a year now since the Canada Line first rocketed down the track between Richmond and Vancouver. We’re thinking that by now, riders must have some stories to tell.

---- What’s the best thing that ever happened to you on the train? What’s the worst? What’s the strangest thing you’ve seen on the Canada Line?

---- Any romances to report? New restaurants you’re hooked on? Favourite stations?

Send your stories to reporter Frank Luba at [email protected] and we’ll pick a selection to run online and in The Province.

...

Read more: http://www.theprovince.com/news/vancouve...da+Line/3355552/story.html#ixzz0vfx6fgwi

[BCPhil]

Originally Posted by Zassk

Yesterday afternoon, both directions appeared to be running every 4+ minutes instead. A train would arrive and the sign would say 4, 8, 12 minutes consistently. Maybe it was just an aberration.

It does seem like they run trains at 4 minutes at some points of the day, but I think part of this has to do with the fact the systems seems to round up quite liberally. 3.5 becomes 4, 7.01 becomes 8.

If you watch the clock, it will usually say 1 minute as the train rolls into the station, then switch to blank time as the train comes to a rest. Blank would indicate zero minutes, but anything under 60 seconds would be zero minutes, and the trains don't spend a full minute in the station. So I think there is a bit of over estimation and rounding up in the system, so that trains appear to be early, instead of late.

I bet if you stood on the platform for 3 trains, right when it switched to 12 minutes for the third train, it would arrive and depart the platform in under 12 minutes.

[nname]

Well.. The frequency stated on the initial service plan is 3min 45sec (I'm pretty sure this was the case the last time I rode it). The service plan, which they were testing before, has a train every 3min 10sec.

[GeeCee]

oops, wrong thread - nm

[CLC]

High ridership means Canada Line could hit break-even point 3 years early
July stats : 107,198 weekdays only, 99,210 including weekends

Article by FRANK LUBA, THE PROVINCE:
http://www.theprovince.com/news/High+rid...ven+point+years+early/3364862/story.html

[mezzanine]

^ great article. this blurb was interesting:

Richmond councillors Ken Johnston, Bill McNulty and Derek Dang issued a press release Thursday calling on TransLink to crack down on fare evaders across the system — including on the Canada Line.

Recently released figures indicate there were 24,000 fare cheats system-wide in 2009, and 550 on the Canada Line in just its first five months of service.

“I’ve personally seen people without monthly passes walking directly past ticket purchase machines and hopping on to trains — with Canada Line “green jacket” staff watching the entire way and doing nothing to stop it,” McNulty said.

I have guarded support for faregates, but i call BS on McNulty. Did they stop those ppl past the green jackets and ask for proof of payment? Or did he just assume this.


And this was a yowza:

Grace Brunger, 27, was riding a southbound train with her bike, heading for Southlands to go horseback riding.

“It’s cheap; it’s fast,” said the Coal Harbour resident. “I can get anywhere.

“I don’t even have a car,” added Brunger, a newcomer to Vancouver. “Even with my bike, I can always get on right away.”

How come my skytrain commute isn't with hot blond women doing some cycle-chic thing? If it was like that all the time I really would get rid of my car permanently....

[aberdeen5698]

Recently released figures indicate there were 24,000 fare cheats system-wide in 2009, and 550 on the Canada Line in just its first five months of service.

OK, let's see now...

5 months = about 150 days.
550 in 150 days = less than 4 cheaters per day.

But wait - they probably didn't catch all the cheaters. Let's say they caught only 1% of the cheaters. That means there could be up to 400 cheaters a day.

With a ridership of around 100,000 per day that means a fare evasion rate of 0.4%. This is a problem worth spending tens of millions of dollars on?

As Jarret Walker said on Wednesday evening, this is basically a political issue, not a technical one. Politicians are appealing to peoples perception of unfairness, not of an actual, substantial problem.

Many millions of dollars to install fare gates may make the system "seem" fairer, but I sure hope they're not funding it on the expectations of recouped revenues...

[The_Henry_Man]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

OK, let's see now...

5 months = about 150 days.
550 in 150 days = less than 4 cheaters per day.

But wait - they probably didn't catch all the cheaters. Let's say they caught only 1% of the cheaters. That means there could be up to 400 cheaters a day.

With a ridership of around 100,000 per day that means a fare evasion rate of 0.4%. This is a problem worth spending tens of millions of dollars on?

As Jarret Walker said on Wednesday evening, this is basically a political issue, not a technical one. Politicians are appealing to peoples perception of unfairness, not of an actual, substantial problem.

Many millions of dollars to install fare gates may make the system "seem" fairer, but I sure hope they're not funding it on the expectations of recouped revenues...

I have to totally disagree. I think this is definitely a very legitimate issue that needs to be addressed. Remember that those figures are most likely just a small fraction of those costs that are recouped due to evasion, and that a lot of the cheaters are either never caught, or that those that are caught never paid the fine, and that even when they are caught, those are probably never reported in those figures. This is especially true for the Expo/Millennium Lines, in which attendants never bother to enforce the fare paid zone. I never even bother to believe Translink's evasion rate figures because most likely it's much higher than its stated figure.

There's a reason why a majority of rapid transit systems (I'm talking about not the at-grade LRT systems) around the world have faregates.

[mrjauk]

Hardie also attributed the Canada Line ridership to the fact there are a lot of destinations on the line — downtown Vancouver, the airport and Richmond Centre.

“It wasn’t just a matter of commuters flocking one way in the morning and the other way in the afternoon,” he said. “In fact, there would be fairly strong ridership in both directions.”

Read more: http://www.theprovince.com/news/High+rid...s+early/3364862/story.html#ixzz0vqyFND8a

This is one of the things that I've been impressed with. I was pleasantly surprised at the level of ridership in the non-rush-hour direction. At 4:00 pm, the northbound train at City Hall is almost as full as the southbound one. That's really encouraging.

[ozonemania]

Originally Posted by mrjauk

This is one of the things that I've been impressed with. I was pleasantly surprised at the level of ridership in the non-rush-hour direction. At 4:00 pm, the northbound train at City Hall is almost as full as the southbound one. That's really encouraging.

This is what the UBC Millenium Line extension will be like too, right from day one. Not so much for the Evergreen, which at this point would act as a commuter line.