Calgary Public Transit II

[para transit fellow]

Originally Posted by SubwayRev

Couldn't agree more. It's disgusting that two cities which make up 65% of the population are needing the approval of tiny, rural communities to spend transportation monies.

I guess i don't understand your disgust. Didn't the Province unveil this program as a _regional_ transit initiative?

[Koolfire]

Originally Posted by SubwayRev

Couldn't agree more. It's disgusting that two cities which make up 65% of the population are needing the approval of tiny, rural communities to spend transportation monies.

I have to somewhat disagree. While the city should never be bullied into making a bad decision based on the approval of the neighbouring communities this money was set aside but the province with the goal of making the region more sustainable. I'm not convinced that spending all this money on the SE LRT is the right way to go as it does not help the region as a whole. Yes Deerfoot is congested but the SE part of the ring road will reduce traffic on Deerfoot during the rush considerably but will increase traffic on Glenmore, 16th and Mcknight from the east making it harder for Chestermere, Langdon and Stratmore residents to commute. Stoney will probably be open in that section before the SE LRT is operational. To be fair Calgary has gotten a lot of money from the province for the West LRT and Stoney Trail recently.

In my mind the two things that make sense
1. Regional train heading north beside Deerfoot towards Airdire, Crossroads, and final one day Red deer. Two reasons, puts another nail in the Nose Creek LRT alignment coffin. Second if it can one day be extended to Red Deer it could be the first step to high speed rail between Calgary and Edmonton. This assumes Edmonton would try a do the same feat heading south.
2. The proposed 17th ave East LRT. This would be more appealing to Chestermere and Stratmore then the SE LRT. It's possible that people living in Mackenze town currently and commuting to downtown via South LRT may make the switch to the East LRT because it would be less crowded and Stoney trail could make it fairly quick to get to.


And don't get me wrong, I support the building of the SE LRT but I'm not certain that robbing Peter to pay Paul is the right way to go. And even if we did the projects I suggested Calgary would still get most of the money and still make the city a better place to live.

[SubwayRev]

Originally Posted by para transit fellow

I guess i don't understand your disgust. Didn't the Province unveil this program as a _regional_ transit initiative?

Yes it was, and that's my beef. I would like to see the money go to Calgary and Edmonton, not the surrounding communities. Most people in Alberta live in Calgary and Edmonton, and I don't think they should need to consult surrounding sommunities on how to spend these transit dollars.

Originally Posted by Koolfire

I have to somewhat disagree. While the city should never be bullied into making a bad decision based on the approval of the neighbouring communities this money was set aside but the province with the goal of making the region more sustainable. I'm not convinced that spending all this money on the SE LRT is the right way to go as it does not help the region as a whole. Yes Deerfoot is congested but the SE part of the ring road will reduce traffic on Deerfoot during the rush considerably but will increase traffic on Glenmore, 16th and Mcknight from the east making it harder for Chestermere, Langdon and Stratmore residents to commute. Stoney will probably be open in that section before the SE LRT is operational. To be fair Calgary has gotten a lot of money from the province for the West LRT and Stoney Trail recently.

In my mind the two things that make sense
1. Regional train heading north beside Deerfoot towards Airdire, Crossroads, and final one day Red deer. Two reasons, puts another nail in the Nose Creek LRT alignment coffin. Second if it can one day be extended to Red Deer it could be the first step to high speed rail between Calgary and Edmonton. This assumes Edmonton would try a do the same feat heading south.
2. The proposed 17th ave East LRT. This would be more appealing to Chestermere and Stratmore then the SE LRT. It's possible that people living in Mackenze town currently and commuting to downtown via South LRT may make the switch to the East LRT because it would be less crowded and Stoney trail could make it fairly quick to get to.

And don't get me wrong, I support the building of the SE LRT but I'm not certain that robbing Peter to pay Paul is the right way to go. And even if we did the projects I suggested Calgary would still get most of the money and still make the city a better place to live.

Money spent on transit in Calgary, say the SE LRT, would take more cars off the roads in an hour than any inter-city bus or rail would in a week. There are not enough people communting from these bedroom communities to warrant major investments. In my mind, the best thing for the region, would be transit imporvements in Calgary.

[DarkKeyo]

Originally Posted by SubwayRev

Money spent on transit in Calgary, say the SE LRT, would take more cars off the roads in an hour than any inter-city bus or rail would in a week. There are not enough people communting from these bedroom communities to warrant major investments. In my mind, the best thing for the region, would be transit imporvements in Calgary.

I mostly agree. While the other communities in the area deserve transportation improvements, there simply won't be enough benefit from that number of commuters.

Implement the bus service from the surrounding communities:
- Cochrane can be served by the extended NWLRT.
- Chestermere and possibly Strathmore can be served by transit improvements on the 17 Av SE corridor (since Calgary and Chestermere now share a boundary the upgraded 305 could run most of the way to Chestermere if they really wanted to. I still don't think the busway to Inglewood is necessary short-term.) Agreeing with Koolfire here:

Originally Posted by Koolfire

2. The proposed 17th ave East LRT. This would be more appealing to Chestermere and Stratmore then the SE LRT. It's possible that people living in Mackenze town currently and commuting to downtown via South LRT may make the switch to the East LRT because it would be less crowded and Stoney trail could make it fairly quick to get to.

- Okotoks and further south would actually benefit from the SELRT: it will remove cars from Deerfoot, etc, for people who drive from Okotoks; it will provide a bus terminal (again this would work better if the SELRT ended at Mckenzie Towne) for intercity buses, it could even split them with the South line; it will provide park and rides for people from Okotoks to park at (again works much better if the park and ride lots at Shepard and Mckenzie Towne stations are built with the stations).
- Airdrie is a bit different IMO, because there won't be a NCLRT for a while, so if anywhere that's where they could put actual commuter rail, to serve North Central Calgary, Balzac developments, Airdrie, eventually the various communities north of Airdrie, maybe even Red Deer as someone suggested, and ultimately become part of the link to Edmonton. This corridor has more potential for commuter rail than the other 3 IMO. Again, agreeing with Koolfire here:

Originally Posted by Koolfire

1. Regional train heading north beside Deerfoot towards Airdire, Crossroads, and final one day Red deer. Two reasons, puts another nail in the Nose Creek LRT alignment coffin. Second if it can one day be extended to Red Deer it could be the first step to high speed rail between Calgary and Edmonton. This assumes Edmonton would try a do the same feat heading south.

What other communities would we want to consider here other than those? Langdon? Banff could use a passenger train, but not necessarily short term, nor part of the regional commuter network itself. It seems to me that Banff would work better as a privately operated VIA-like train from the existing downtown station.

Anyways, that is my view on what we should do short term. Of course, implementing the downtown tunnels is a must-do too.

[thager]

Originally Posted by Vascilli

So what happened to those Nova buses that the City ordered?

there being built, oh and regina stole some for there order. see this thread on www.cptdb.ca
http://www.cptdb.ca/index.php?showtopic=9938&st=120

[Dado]

New Flyer is selling 226 low-floor artics it bought back from Ottawa as part of an out-of-court settlement replacement and new purchase deal:

http://www.newflyer.com/index/fleet-sale

So if you want to get yourselves scores of underpowered, battered and abused artics, now's your chance!

[SubwayRev]

Originally Posted by DarkKeyo

I mostly agree. While the other communities in the area deserve transportation improvements, there simply won't be enough benefit from that number of commuters.

Implement the bus service from the surrounding communities:
- Cochrane can be served by the extended NWLRT.
- Chestermere and possibly Strathmore can be served by transit improvements on the 17 Av SE corridor (since Calgary and Chestermere now share a boundary the upgraded 305 could run most of the way to Chestermere if they really wanted to. I still don't think the busway to Inglewood is necessary short-term.) Agreeing with Koolfire here:



- Okotoks and further south would actually benefit from the SELRT: it will remove cars from Deerfoot, etc, for people who drive from Okotoks; it will provide a bus terminal (again this would work better if the SELRT ended at Mckenzie Towne) for intercity buses, it could even split them with the South line; it will provide park and rides for people from Okotoks to park at (again works much better if the park and ride lots at Shepard and Mckenzie Towne stations are built with the stations).
- Airdrie is a bit different IMO, because there won't be a NCLRT for a while, so if anywhere that's where they could put actual commuter rail, to serve North Central Calgary, Balzac developments, Airdrie, eventually the various communities north of Airdrie, maybe even Red Deer as someone suggested, and ultimately become part of the link to Edmonton. This corridor has more potential for commuter rail than the other 3 IMO. Again, agreeing with Koolfire here:



What other communities would we want to consider here other than those? Langdon? Banff could use a passenger train, but not necessarily short term, nor part of the regional commuter network itself. It seems to me that Banff would work better as a privately operated VIA-like train from the existing downtown station.

Anyways, that is my view on what we should do short term. Of course, implementing the downtown tunnels is a must-do too.

I wouldn't mind seeing bus travel from these communities to the nearest LRT station, but definately not rail; too expensive and too few passengers. The only place I could see it, as you and Koolfire mentioned, would be to Airdrie/Red Deer. That would be the only direction that would have any hope of getting enough passengers.

As for a VIA connection to Banff, that was the first line VIA cut in 1993, but my understanding was the it wa a very successful line for tourists.

[kw5150]

LRT transport and it's benefits

We are so furtunate that we have the option to take transit of this caliber in the City of Calgary. The LRT (light rail train) is linked to so many key areas of Calgary and it packs a punch with it's size.

Thoughts

There are quite a few of you riders out there, but we need a few more of you (pesky little urban buggers) coming downtown.......... so save some money by taking transit downtown and just cab it home with some friends when you are done!

All joking aside…. there may be expensive parking downtown but........ I know plenty of people (myself included) who have taken the train downtown to, shop it, sight-see it, and "patio it up a bit". ..... and then take a cab home.


Urban pub crawl definition: (one drink per establishment, food at some point, and everyone bring cash to make paying easier.....see how many you can hit…. You can do it all downtown!

ha!

[Policy Wonk]

Originally Posted by Sir.Humphrey.Appleby

That project isn't going anywhere - the SC Lavalin contract I am not sure really exists anymore however.

As of yesterday (July 30th) SNC was thrown off the project, where that leaves Blue 22 as originally conceived (and the RDC's) is unclear. Metrolinx should make their intentions known fairly quickly. When all is said and done GO might wind up operating the route, which is probably the best possible outcome since Blue 22 as proposed was ridiculous.

So now we wait and see what SNC does next,

[rail car designer]

Originally Posted by Policy Wonk

As of yesterday (July 30th) SNC was thrown off the project, where that leaves Blue 22 as originally conceived (and the RDC's) is unclear. Metrolinx should make their intentions known fairly quickly. When all is said and done GO might wind up operating the route, which is probably the best possible outcome since Blue 22 as proposed was ridiculous.

So now we wait and see what SNC does next,

what does this mean for the project?

[Policy Wonk]

Too soon to say, but it is probably positive. SNC was looking for revenue guarantees and operating subsidies so one less pig at the trough and either harmonization or perhaps integration into the GO system.

I don't see a downside,

[rail car designer]

Originally Posted by Policy Wonk

Too soon to say, but it is probably positive. SNC was looking for revenue guarantees and operating subsidies so one less pig at the trough and either harmonization or perhaps integration into the GO system.

I don't see a downside,

could be a downside to any subcontractors aligned with SNC.

[mersar]

The steel structure for the +15 for the new 4th Street station is now up. Looks pretty good, and pretty much as the renders depicted it in terms of shape (very futuristic looking)

[DizzyEdge]

Originally Posted by kw5150

All joking aside…. there may be expensive parking downtown but........ I know plenty of people (myself included) who have taken the train downtown to, shop it, sight-see it, and "patio it up a bit". ..... and then take a cab home.

For the most part at the times when people would tend to do that (evenings or weekends) all parking is really cheap or free.

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by DizzyEdge

For the most part at the times when people would tend to do that (evenings or weekends) all parking is really cheap or free.

Which is both a blessing and a curse. It's starting to get me downtown more (I mean beyond work), but yeah, there's just no incentive to not booze and drive for many people.

In the past I've done exactly what kw suggests, but many of my acquaintances are horrified at the thought. Public transportation? Why, when I can just drive (and hope the cops don't have a Checkstop)?

[MasterG]

Originally Posted by freeweed

Which is both a blessing and a curse. It's starting to get me downtown more (I mean beyond work), but yeah, there's just no incentive to not booze and drive for many people.

In the past I've done exactly what kw suggests, but many of my acquaintances are horrified at the thought. Public transportation? Why, when I can just drive (and hope the cops don't have a Checkstop)?

Not to mention that if you did leave your car downtown and cab it home after a night on the town, youd have to get up pretty early to get it again without getting a parking ticket the next morning.

Not a welcoming thought after a night boozing

Perhaps use an approach at the U of C? students can ask for a pass at the bar they put in the car and gives them an extra few hours to avoid a ticket the following morning. Might not work for weekdays, but perhaps friday/saturday mornings

[DizzyEdge]

Originally Posted by MasterG

Not to mention that if you did leave your car downtown and cab it home after a night on the town, youd have to get up pretty early to get it again without getting a parking ticket the next morning.

Not a welcoming thought after a night boozing

Perhaps use an approach at the U of C? students can ask for a pass at the bar they put in the car and gives them an extra few hours to avoid a ticket the following morning. Might not work for weekdays, but perhaps friday/saturday mornings

Depends, if it's a parkplus street you can sign up for their cell phone service so you can pay for parking in the morning from your bed

[You Need A Thneed]

It's still 2 years before it'll be open to the public, but the Park & Ride at Saddletowne station has been paved.

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by Policy Wonk

Too soon to say, but it is probably positive. SNC was looking for revenue guarantees and operating subsidies so one less pig at the trough and either harmonization or perhaps integration into the GO system.

I don't see a downside,

Hopefully it will mean those BUDD RDC cars sitting in Moncton will finally get used. Last time I was in Moncton I saw them shunting other via cars going in for repair and repainting and I had a chance to get on one of the refurbished ones during the train safety days. I was really impressed how nice the seats were. The onboard washroom was a nice touch too.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by halifaxboyns

$500 million seems a bit much for upgrades? I mean yes, you would need platforms at some locations and the RDC cars I mentioned are 2 mil a pop - but even with the upgrades it would cost that much? That must have to do with more of their freight operation than a regional transit system.

I'd also suggest that on some days it extend to Banff as a tourist train.

They have to double track and triple track some rather tight segments with hills/valley walls (not exactly sure if you could say cliffs) bounded by the river on the other side, mostly running through a Provincial Park. In all, not the easiest proposition, hence the cost.