Metro Vancouver Bike & Pedestrian Discussion

[go_leafs_go02]

Originally Posted by Pennywise604

I will definetly try the Crescent Beach one, as I know the area fairly well, and love it also. So beautiful along the Marine!

I just found out how steep the Colebrook hill really is, and I'm wondering something. The Colebrook hill reaches a maximum gradient of 20% for 70m. right at the start of the climb The total climb I think is maybe 8% averaged out. It's a total ascent of 200 ft. in .9 km. So I've been looking at different hills/mountains (<== maybe) to climb that you guys told me about, and through maps. The one I really noticed was the Old Grouse Mountain Hwy. (Mountain Hwy) I'm not saying I want to climb that, but do mountain roads on the North Shore have the same gradients as Colebrook would, or are they less severe. Climbing that first 70m. on Colebrook really hurts, but I've gone 6 out of 7 times with climbing the whole way non-stop, the only exception was the first time I ever tried it. I wouldn't be able to handle a 20% climb for longer than 200m. But I'd really love to spend a day heading up one of the 3 mountains, no matter how long it takes!

There's a good hill on 264 Street north of Highway #1 around Mt. Lehman. Actually quite surprised how hilly it is just west of Abbotsford.

144 Street in Surrey is a good up and down road too, particuarily in and around the 64 - 84 Avenue area. Up and Down.

[officedweller]

First SkyTrain fare evasion, now running red lights ....

From the Province:

http://www.theprovince.com/travel/Vancou...h+after+running+light/3325537/story.html

Vancouver mayor has close encounter with bus after running a red light
Province columnist Ethan Baron thinks Gregor Robertson needs to brush up on traffic laws

By Ethan Baron, The Province
July 27, 2010

Coast Mountain bus driver Michele MacDonald says she was pulling out into Dunsmuir Street last Thursday and was angling for the stop on the right side of Richards Street when Vancouver Mayor Gregor Robertson rode out of the Dunsmuir bike lane and into the path of her No. 5 bus.

As Vancouver’s mayor prepares to have another controversial bike lane constructed downtown, he would do well to brush up on traffic laws. Note to Mayor Gregor Robertson: a red light means you have to stop before turning right. Another note to Mayor Robertson: when the biggest obstacle to public support for your cycling infrastructure is motorists upset by scofflaw bicyclists, it makes good sense to obey the laws yourself.

On Thursday, Coast Mountain bus driver Michele MacDonald pulled out into Dunsmuir Street and was angling for the stop on the right side of Richards Street when a well-dressed cyclist rode out of the Dunsmuir bike lane and into the path of her No. 5 bus.

“He came around and didn’t even stop,” says MacDonald, 47, of Surrey. “He did not stop or look.

“When he looked up and said he was sorry, I looked out my doors and thought, ‘Oh my god, it’s Mister Gregor Robertson.’”

MacDonald, who has been driving buses for 15 years and also trains transit drivers, says only her training and quick stomp on the brake saved Robertson from broken bones or worse.

When the mayor and the bus driver pulled up alongside each other at Georgia Street, MacDonald told him, “Thanks for giving me a heart attack. You of all people should look left before you make a right turn on a right,” she says. “He said, ‘I’m really sorry about that.’”

The last she saw of the man she now calls “red-light Robertston” was his two-wheeled figure — clad in dress pants and a white dress shirt with a colourful tie flapping over his left shoulder — turning left onto Nelson Street, heading in the direction of City Hall.

She gives the mayor a full 10 on a one-to-10 scale of dumb things cyclists do, but she’s hoping that he’s been “scared straight,” as he appeared shaken by the near miss. “He looked like he was going to come out of his skin,” she says.

Robertson on Monday appeared reluctant to admit wrongdoing. He acknowledged that the bike-specific stoplight on Dunsmuir at Richards was red, but said, “I wasn’t going against a red light. There was a red light to go straight on Dunsmuir. I turned right in the crosswalk.”

It was when he left the crosswalk and tried to get across the curbside bus lane and into the bike lane on Richards that the conflict with the bus occurred, Robertson says.

This “I-was-turning-into-the-crosswalk-not-the-roadway” excuse sounded a little weak to me, so I took a walk over to the intersection. When the light is red for bikes on Dunsmuir, traffic on Richards is coming from the left. It is quite clear that when the light is red, bikes must stop at the white stop line painted in the bike lane, whether they’re going straight or turning right, just as at any red light.

In my short visit to the spot, I asked two cyclists whether they thought the red light meant they had to stop if they were turning right. Both said yes without hesitating.

Robertson says he’s going to have city staff look into the safety of the intersection. I agree with him that the setup there is unusual, with a two-way dedicated cycling lane crossing the intersection of two one-way streets. But as a cyclist, I don’t see anything unusually dangerous in the arrangement, as long as riders in the bike lane stop before turning right on a red.

Unfortunately, Robertson’s error of judgment will provide ammunition for many car commuters who will become very irate when they learn that another dedicated bike lane is coming to downtown, running north/south to connect the Burrard Bridge bike lane with the Dunsmuir lane. Hornby, Burrard, and Thurlow streets are under consideration, Robertson says. “Hornby is the odds-on favourite right now,” he says, adding that the goal is to have a trial underway in October.

[email protected]

© Copyright (c) The Province

See also:

http://www.citycaucus.com/2010/07/red-light-robertson-not-the-only-careless-rider-in-town

[whatnext]

Is anybody really surprised at Mayor Moonbeam's behaviour? What a pathetic hypocrite.

...Robertson on Monday appeared reluctant to admit wrongdoing. He acknowledged that the bike-specific stoplight on Dunsmuir at Richards was red, but said, “I wasn’t going against a red light. There was a red light to go straight on Dunsmuir. I turned right in the crosswalk.”

It was when he left the crosswalk and tried to get across the curbside bus lane and into the bike lane on Richards that the conflict with the bus occurred, Robertson says.

This “I-was-turning-into-the-crosswalk-not-the-roadway” excuse sounded a little weak to me, so I took a walk over to the intersection. When the light is red for bikes on Dunsmuir, traffic on Richards is coming from the left. It is quite clear that when the light is red, bikes must stop at the white stop line painted in the bike lane, whether they’re going straight or turning right, just as at any red light...
http://www.theprovince.com/travel/Vancou...h+after+running+light/3325537/story.html

[racc]

What is pathetic is the media in this town. It must be a really slow news day. He didn't get a ticket nor was anyone hurt. I would expect there are hundreds of thousands (or even millions) of similar traffic infractions around the region every day by people in cars, on bikes and on foot.

I also expect that everyone whining about the mayor doing this has also done similar or much worse. A real bunch of hypocrites.

[usog]

Originally Posted by racc

What is pathetic is the media in this town. It must be a really slow news day. He didn't get a ticket nor was anyone hurt. I would expect there are hundreds of thousands (or even millions) of similar traffic infractions around the region every day by people in cars, on bikes and on foot.

I also expect that everyone whining about the mayor doing this has also done similar or much worse. A real bunch of hypocrites.

Another example of deflection. Its like the Taliban going 'hey look, the americans are killing civilians too and their military is *much* bigger! Go after them not us!"

[go_leafs_go02]

Originally Posted by racc

What is pathetic is the media in this town. It must be a really slow news day. He didn't get a ticket nor was anyone hurt. I would expect there are hundreds of thousands (or even millions) of similar traffic infractions around the region every day by people in cars, on bikes and on foot.

I also expect that everyone whining about the mayor doing this has also done similar or much worse. A real bunch of hypocrites.

No, what is pathethic is that most cyclists don't follow the rules, such as stopping, yielding to vehicles, or staying in their dedicated lane or space.

[go_leafs_go02]

Another reason to ban all bikes from the freeway:

http://www.bclocalnews.com/news/99347514.html

A cyclist believed to be collecting bottles and cans along Highway 1 was struck by a five-ton flatbed truck around noon today (Tuesday).

The 65-year-old man was heading east along the freeway just west of the Mt. Lehman interchange. He was airlifted to hospital in critical condition.

Eastbound lanes of the freeway between 264 Street and Mt. Lehman are expected to be closed to traffic, except commercial trucks, for several hours as investigators remain on scene.

Traffic currently is back to 200 Street in Langley.
I know they don't permit bikes on that section, but the fact they permit bikes past Abbotsford towards Chilliwack is just asinine in my opinion. Tragic, but no clue why he was cycling out there.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by go_leafs_go02

No, what is pathethic is that most cyclists don't follow the rules, such as stopping, yielding to vehicles, or staying in their dedicated lane or space.

I got into a yelling match with a cab driver blocking the bicycle lane the other day. So... there.

[racc]

Originally Posted by go_leafs_go02

No, what is pathethic is that most cyclists don't follow the rules, such as stopping, yielding to vehicles, or staying in their dedicated lane or space.

This is simply not true. Try actually observing cyclists and you will find the large majority of them follow the rules of the road. Maybe 1 in 10 or 1 in 20 don't but you can say the same for drivers and pedestrians. Not really surprising because the same people that ride bikes also walk and drive cars.

Anyway, it is dangerous drivers that kill 400 people in BC each year. Meanwhile, careless cyclists are mostly a danger to themselves.

[sacrifice333]

The biggest challenge re: bicyclists in Canada, or Vancouver at least, and I'm as guilty of this as the next, is that bikers adhere to a dual code of rules... those for cars and those for pedestrians and seem to interchange at random!

It's the randomness that causes trouble.

If we're going to become a more serious bike city... cops should not necessarily worry about helmet laws but focus on keeping the bikers in line with one set of laws.

Where this can become tricky is on multiple-laned roadways where it makes sense for the biker to cease operating as a car, join the crosswalk to then turn across traffic using the perpendicular crosswalk, for safety sake.

[Zassk]

As a driver and cyclist, nothing bothers me more than 1) cyclists who pass vehicles on right, and 2) cyclists who don't want to take their feet off their pedals to stop. I don't know what proportion of cyclists do these two bad illegal habits, but it is a hell of a lot more than 1 in 10.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Zassk

As a driver and cyclist, nothing bothers me more than 1) cyclists who pass vehicles on right, and 2) cyclists who don't want to take their feet off their pedals to stop. I don't know what proportion of cyclists do these two bad illegal habits, but it is a hell of a lot more than 1 in 10.

You really get mad at #1? I can't imagine the circus that would occur if bikes didn't pass on the right and cars didn't pass on the left.

Under the law, bikes have just as much right to the lane as cars, but it's a joke in reality. That's why some form of bike lane is key, even if it is just a painted line on the road.

I say this as a driver and cyclist commuter.

[tybuilding]

Your right we should build a separated bike path parallel to the freeways including new higher speed routes like the SFPR as it will have off/on ramps instead of signaled intersections. An example of this is on Vancouver Island at Sydney.

http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8...auN7QfMVevDpmNweKQ&cbp=12,115.81,,0,9.44

So many of the highways in BC the only way to go is on the freeway and that is why bikes are allowed. East of Old Yale Road in Chilliwack it is the only route:
http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8...auN7QfMVevDpmNweKQ&cbp=12,115.81,,0,9.44,
and sections of the Coquilhalla etc.

Highway cycling in Copenhagen http://www.copenhagenize.com/2010/07/more-bicycle-friendly-motorways.html

Originally Posted by go_leafs_go02

Another reason to ban all bikes from the freeway:

http://www.bclocalnews.com/news/99347514.html



Traffic currently is back to 200 Street in Langley.
I know they don't permit bikes on that section, but the fact they permit bikes past Abbotsford towards Chilliwack is just asinine in my opinion. Tragic, but no clue why he was cycling out there.

[tybuilding]

Originally Posted by sacrifice333

The biggest challenge re: bicyclists in Canada, or Vancouver at least, and I'm as guilty of this as the next, is that bikers adhere to a dual code of rules... those for cars and those for pedestrians and seem to interchange at random!

It's the randomness that causes trouble.

If we're going to become a more serious bike city... cops should not necessarily worry about helmet laws but focus on keeping the bikers in line with one set of laws.

Where this can become tricky is on multiple-laned roadways where it makes sense for the biker to cease operating as a car, join the crosswalk to then turn across traffic using the perpendicular crosswalk, for safety sake.

Try crossing a road like King George Highway in Surrey across 2 lanes of 60-70 km/hr rush hour traffic from the nice 8ft wide bike lanes to a left turn bay. I will ride across the intersection and turn around and wait in front of the waiting cars.

[IanS]

Originally Posted by racc

This is simply not true. Try actually observing cyclists and you will find the large majority of them follow the rules of the road. Maybe 1 in 10 or 1 in 20 don't but you can say the same for drivers and pedestrians. Not really surprising because the same people that ride bikes also walk and drive cars.

Anyway, it is dangerous drivers that kill 400 people in BC each year. Meanwhile, careless cyclists are mostly a danger to themselves.

I don't disagree with the last paragraph but I think your estimate of 1 in 10 or 20 is just plain wrong. I walk to work through Vancouver and walk around Vancouver every day and, based on my observations, the majority, if not the vast majority, of cyclists pretty much ignore the rules of the road.

Of course, I see lots of bad driving too.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by racc

What is pathetic is the media in this town. It must be a really slow news day. He didn't get a ticket nor was anyone hurt. I would expect there are hundreds of thousands (or even millions) of similar traffic infractions around the region every day by people in cars, on bikes and on foot.

I also expect that everyone whining about the mayor doing this has also done similar or much worse. A real bunch of hypocrites.

Sorry but no Saint Gregor apologism will wash this away. Its a disturbing pattern of behaviour - remember his "oh, I'm supposed to pay those transit fines?" fiasco. Now in addition to him flouting the rules of the road you can add that to Councillor Meggs "stop sign, what stop sign" moment and you have a classic "do as I say, not as I do" example.

[sacrifice333]

Originally Posted by tybuilding

Try crossing a road like King George Highway in Surrey across 2 lanes of 60-70 km/hr rush hour traffic from the nice 8ft wide bike lanes to a left turn bay. I will ride across the intersection and turn around and wait in front of the waiting cars.

Granted it's the only option.

The problem arises though that the average cyclist (and even more so the bike couriers) switch between vehicle and pedestrian code at random... not just when trying to cross a busy street.

Can you change this? Probably not... but the Red Light Roberson saga is an excellent example of how's this adhoc behaviour can be completely psychotic.

[tybuilding]

Originally Posted by sacrifice333

Granted it's the only option.

The problem arises though that the average cyclist (and even more so the bike couriers) switch between vehicle and pedestrian code at random... not just when trying to cross a busy street.

Can you change this? Probably not... but the Red Light Roberson saga is an excellent example of how's this adhoc behaviour can be completely psychotic.

Part of this behavior stems from the lack of proper infrastructure and lack of training. Proper cycling should be taught at an early age in schools (say Grade 2 or 3) and again at the beginning of high school.

For those looking to get a refresher: http://www.vacc.bc.ca/cycling/cycling.php?pageID=38 - Cycling courses. Or read this: http://www.bikesense.bc.ca/manual.htm

[Waders]

Originally Posted by officedweller

First SkyTrain fare evasion, now running red lights ....

From the Province:

http://www.theprovince.com/travel/Vancou...h+after+running+light/3325537/story.html

See also:

http://www.citycaucus.com/2010/07/red-light-robertson-not-the-only-careless-rider-in-town

Well, voters will mark the final score in next year's city election.

The video in the Citycaucus site shows how some cyclists behave at UBC.
Here is the direct link at Youtube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1aY3TORHns&feature=player_embedded
OK, you may want to turn off the sound as the music is just weird.

I noticed a lot of cyclists do not wear helmet and cycling on the sidewalk. Some even cursed me for walking on the sidewalk and blocked their way. It is as if they own the whole space.

[Zassk]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

You really get mad at #1? I can't imagine the circus that would occur if bikes didn't pass on the right and cars didn't pass on the left.

You know what I mean. Cyclists passing cars on the right within the same lane, just because they're narrow enough to fit. It's illegal for motorcycles to do it, and it's illegal for bicycles to do it.