Calgary Public Transit II

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by edmontonenthusiast

I don't think some turns are bad and they are likely inevitable, but I can see what you're saying...it was a little overkill. So, I created this new map with a brand new route. Just one this time, though. It connects to LRT (both future and current) which is key to making sure the Tram is very viable as it means it can be attached to the greater transportation system, allowing more people to use it and get to it easier. Going down 17th Ave and stopping at 4 St as well as creating a rail connection between Downtown and Mount Royal University will probably be key to creating high ridership on the C-Tram. These areas will likely really benefit from rail but it seems are unlikely to get the C-Train.

LRT is significantly better than trams or streetcars. But, you could say subways and other forms of HRT are superior to LRT. The trams have a benefit to them though over buses. They can carry much more people, require less memorization of routes (there's only 1 or 2 routes, depending on which of my maps you go by, and I doubt there will be a huge streetcar network in Calgary in reality), and look more stylish than a bus. Would you rather take a bus or tram, based solely on social stigma? And it's cheaper and requires less infrastructure than LRT.

While the 'tram' as you laid out is more than fine, the main use of connecting MRC and downtown would be incredibly slow. The passage along 17th Ave would be incredibly bad, and using Macleod Tr is misguided. It is easy to understand how someone who (assuming here) hasn't really spent much time in the area would choose the alignment, but it doesn't make it good.

If the routes goal is transport between MRC and downtown / the core LRT network, there are numerous options that would be better and cheaper. (straight shots up 33rd or 37th to Westbrook, the unused freeway corridor & sandy beach to the south line being two of them). Especially since none of these routes are especially congested you could actually run a tram service without exclusive ROW without big problems.

If you want a service to encourage main street development, that is fine too. The only problem is Marda Loop is isolated from a develop-able corridor. You are not going to tear down $1million+ single family homes to build high density street front retail with condos above down 14th street. Running from Westbrooke to the Stampede grounds with a tram wouldn't be half bad down 17th, you might even run it as a continuation of the MRC tram. Now it wouldn't be faster than a bus, but it would certainly focus development and encourage a 'complete' main street. It would function in a similar role to the St Clair car in Toronto (before it was rebuilt with its own ROW)

[srperrycgy]

Originally Posted by Sir.Humphrey.Appleby

If the routes goal is transport between MRC and downtown / the core LRT network, there are numerous options that would be better and cheaper. (straight shots up 33rd or 37th to Westbrook, the unused freeway corridor & sandy beach to the south line being two of them). Especially since none of these routes are especially congested you could actually run a tram service without exclusive ROW without big problems.

33rd Street is hardly a str8 shot to MRU as you would have to jog over to Sarcee Rd at Richmond Rd. The 33rd St ROW is not wide enough as it is now. With street parking, the road isn't wide enough for two cars to pass each other.

Using 37th St would be a better idea. Much wider ROW.

[srperrycgy]

Another CTrain fatality early this morning. This time, a 17 year old hit at Canyon Meadows.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/calgary/story/2010/07/17/calgary-c-train-teen-killed.html

[Policy Wonk]

I don't see a tram to mount royal being terribly attractive when hoping on an 18 if your lucky, or a 108 or 112 and then intercepting a 20 would take a fraction of the time.

[fusili]

I won't repeat any arguments regarding the SE LRT vs. 17th Ave BRT. But I do want to say that the lane locations on 17th are poorly designed. I think they should be in the curb lane for several reasons:

1. It feels incredibly safer for those waiting for a bus to stand on the edge of the sidewalk, than in the middle of traffic. Parents with children only have to worry about children running into one lane of traffic, not two.
2. No need for additional ROW width for the stations, which causes weird configurations when placed in the middle of the road. The sidewalk serves as the station (more or less).
3. Those waiting for the bus can interact better with businesses on the street. They can window shop, browse or just hang around in stores while waiting for the bus. This can generate additional business for the stores adjacent to stops.
4. It allows for queue jumping (or what ever the term is called). This is where stations are offset from the transit lane so buses can pass each other when one is stopped at a station. This allows for integration of regional transit (to Chestermere) with the local circulators (the BRT). This is possible because the stations can be set in to the sidewalk area where space is sufficient.

Just my two cents.

[ue]

Originally Posted by Sir.Humphrey.Appleby

While the 'tram' as you laid out is more than fine, the main use of connecting MRC and downtown would be incredibly slow. The passage along 17th Ave would be incredibly bad, and using Macleod Tr is misguided. It is easy to understand how someone who (assuming here) hasn't really spent much time in the area would choose the alignment, but it doesn't make it good.

If the routes goal is transport between MRC and downtown / the core LRT network, there are numerous options that would be better and cheaper. (straight shots up 33rd or 37th to Westbrook, the unused freeway corridor & sandy beach to the south line being two of them). Especially since none of these routes are especially congested you could actually run a tram service without exclusive ROW without big problems.

If you want a service to encourage main street development, that is fine too. The only problem is Marda Loop is isolated from a develop-able corridor. You are not going to tear down $1million+ single family homes to build high density street front retail with condos above down 14th street. Running from Westbrooke to the Stampede grounds with a tram wouldn't be half bad down 17th, you might even run it as a continuation of the MRC tram. Now it wouldn't be faster than a bus, but it would certainly focus development and encourage a 'complete' main street. It would function in a similar role to the St Clair car in Toronto (before it was rebuilt with its own ROW)

Thank you. I was iffy about choosing 17th Ave for my map, but I figured it would catch a large portion of people due to the bars and shops along the avenue as well as the high density residential around it. Plus it would have great access to Mission, Lower Mount Royal, and Cliff Bungalow as a result.

My point for the tram was getting enough areas that I would think would use it (high density residential and commercial areas, universities) and connect it to the LRT network so people can easily get even more places by transit. I think my line did that fine.

My only other idea was making a 14th/15th Ave couplet between MacLeod and 14th, which wouldn't be disrupted as much as 17th as they aren't major roads. Instead of it going up MacLeod/1 St SE to the downtown, it could just stop at Victoria C-Train and loop around. At 14 St SW, it could go down 14th and then go west along 17th until Crowchild and go south to MRU. Or, at 14 St it could continue going south until 33rd and go through Marda Loop and then MRU. The second option may not be as quick as it would be stopping more over the first with a bigger portion just on Crowchild, but the second would at least go through some urban communities with the potential for densification (Bankview, South Calgary, and Marda Loop...which the first would only go through one of these). What are your (or anyone elses') thoughts on these routes? Are they realistic or likely to happen?

[Ferreth]

Originally Posted by Bassic Lab

Closing access from all the side streets would only serve to destroy every thing that makes 17th Ave SE an attractive corridor. At that point we'd have a carbon copy of 36th St NE; how does it stack up as an urban main street?

I should clarify that I was thinking of cars - I agree that pedestrians should be able to cross at more points; preferably by pedestrian bridge every 4 blocks. 36th St was pretty much set in stone by the time LRT came along. It was always going to be big malls, strip malls and large stores. LRT at least added a few more pedestrians to the mix. Part of the mess with 36th street from a car perspective is all of the crossings slow traffic to a crawl on a Saturday; LRT exacerbated that problem. Now, talking from a pedestrian perspective, 36th street is daunting to cross, for sure. I grew up in the area and always tried to cross at the Marborough station to avoid the level crossings if possible. I wish a couple of pedestrian bridges would be built; would have helped me a lot in the day. Pedestrian bridges are not cheap however. 17th can be done with a similar layout - but better planning. I'd try some of those new traffic lights for pedestrians only at the right only intersections for cars - the pedestrian would not have to worry about left hand turning traffic (a real bitch on 36th St), and they could be timed to avoid BRT's and eventual LRT's. Ultimate upgrade would be a pedestrian bridge. I'm also pushing right hand only intersections to get rid of the problems 36th St. has with allowing movements in all directions in the process slowing cars down to a crawl. What I've seen proposed for 17th looks like a lot nicer pedestrian environment, with trees, grass, and some separation between traffic and people.

Originally Posted by Bassic Lab

Saying it is too expensive to build the SE LRT to anywhere useful while dropping a quarter billion on a 17th Ave BRT is problematic. The political will is there right now to bring it down to Douglasdale. It does not look like it will be an election issue because, as it is currently shaping up, every candidate is on board. Extending it down to McKenzie Town from Douglasdale would not cost very much; it might be right around 250 million. There is a protected ROW there and very few bridge structures are needed.

I could just flip that first statement around and say that spending a billion to build a SE LRT that doesn't go far enough south and doesn't quite make it into downtown is problematic. I'm not looking at this politically either - Bronco got a NE and NW LRT extension going out of the last civic election and I didn't support building those either - building things politically usually results in building less efficiently specifically because you are building to a political agenda, not a civic planning agenda. So, if 17th Ave BRT were to go ahead for $250M, you might be pushing SE LRT back 2 years; SE LRT would still get built ahead of any 17th Ave LRT option.

It will be interesting to see what planners come up with for $250M - I have a suspicion that the spending will be on SE LRT phase 1 with a P3, and the current capital savings from the P3 applied to a 17th Ave. BRT, with a SE LRT tie in at Inglewood; not a combination I'm liking.

[magnetite]

Think they need to step up the security on the C-Train. I know they have a help button and all, but it would be nice to have a cop on board. I was mauled by a homeless person on my way home from getting a bus pass. He grabbed me pretty hard when I didn't give him any money, then I told him I would use the help button if he didn't stop doing what he was doing.

I was only going one stop anyways, so I'm not sure if that was long enough to warrant pushing the help button. Still.

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by magnetite

Think they need to step up the security on the C-Train. I know they have a help button and all, but it would be nice to have a cop on board. I was mauled by a homeless person on my way home from getting a bus pass. He grabbed me pretty hard when I didn't give him any money, then I told him I would use the help button if he didn't stop doing what he was doing.

I was only going one stop anyways, so I'm not sure if that was long enough to warrant pushing the help button. Still.

An assault is an assault, regardless of how far you're traveling. Not much would be done though even if you did file a police report.

[mwalker_mw]

Originally Posted by magnetite

I was only going one stop anyways, so I'm not sure if that was long enough to warrant pushing the help button. Still.

Pressing the button, even if just to notify them of the incident, is precisely what will influence whether Calgary Transit increases security efforts. By shrugging it off you are hurting your own cause. At the very least, write an email if you want to see action. They can't fix problems they don't know about and they won't fix problems that aren't reported often enough to validate the associated cost.

[McPaul]

You're lucky he didn't get off and follow you! What time was this?

[You Need A Thneed]

At saddletowne station, there is now some structural steel up for the roof.

Martindale station has some of the precast platform sections in place.

Whitehorn station has the grade beams for the platform extension being formed, the concrete will be placed soon.

At McKnight WW, the girders for the new pedestrian bridge over Metis Trail went up yesterday evening.

[srperrycgy]

A few shots from my walk this hot afternoon:

Safety awareness campaign ad:



The LRT Traction Power substation will be located in the "hole" at the NW corner of 7th Ave @ 4th St SW:



A couple more of the 4th St platform construction:





Something a bit more rare. A bike on a bus bike rack:



Ok, it's rare for me to see this.

[McPaul]

I've never seen this before either. How do they even secure on?

I ended up catching the 13 that went the wrong way. This took me through Westhills. Wow I'm impressed that entire area has grown up so much. Lots more development there. Mostly retail, including a Bestbuy.

On a transit note, it would be nice if bus stops could indicate which way the bus was going. The sign said "mount royal" but it went to west hills. This was at a bus terminal down by a Canadian tire on 51 street I think it was?

Also, when you are at the last train station of the line, and walking up to the platform, if there's two trains sitting there and there's not a stream of people coming off one of them, why isn't there something that tells you which train is leaving first?

[Wooster]

Transit planning needs consistent approach

By William Hamilton (AKA Beltliner)

Last Updated: July 25, 2010 12:07am


It’s the kind of news only Lyle Lanley could love.

The fast-talking monorail mountebank from The Simpsons would surely be rubbing his hands with glee — if it hadn’t been for that unfortunate stop in North Haverbrook — at what came out of city council last week.

Ald. Bob Hawkesworth’s motion to pull together financing for the long-overdue southeast LRT from provincial GreenTRIP funding was carried unanimously.

The decision almost flew under the radar with the commotion over the police budget.

When council has trouble agreeing on what to order for dinner, it is amazing seeing aldermen race to a consensus that raiding the provincial vault to the tune of $800 million to build light rail to Douglas Glen in five to seven years would be a good thing.

There’s just one small issue. Throwing GreenTRIP money at the southeast LRT isn’t as easy as it looks.

Sure, $800 million is a big chunk of change to be able to drop on rails, bricks, and mortar for mass transit, but the provincial GreenTRIP funding comes with enough strings to hogtie a herd of Holsteins.

The province only pays out after the transit projects are built, or at least well under way. The money is meant not just for Calgary, but also for nearby towns and counties as far away as High River and Strathmore.

GreenTRIP may be a windfall, but it isn’t free money, either: For every two dollars the province contributes to a GreenTRIP transit project, the city is expected to ante up a loonie — and that loonie has to come from somewhere.

read more...

http://www.calgarysun.com/comment/column...t/columnists/2010/07/25/pf-14819501.html

[freeweed]

I don't understand the Simpsons reference. The whole point of that episode was that the monorail was something worthless that bankrupted local economies. Is this story trying to imply that the SE LRT is a complete boondoggle?

[You Need A Thneed]

Also, at MKWW, the catenary and poles have been removed from the tail track at the north end of the station.

[magnetite]

Originally Posted by McPaul

You're lucky he didn't get off and follow you! What time was this?

Middle of the day. That's actually the second time this has happened. I'm not sure what I did to make him grab me. Didn't even talk to him.

[mersar]

Small note on the SE LRT from council meeting tonight, a minor amendment was made to the request from council for administration to undertake the pre-study work for the SE LRT, with the amendment now requiring both the Calgary Regional Partnership and the province to sign on, before it was just the city and the province.

[Aegis]

Originally Posted by mersar

Small note on the SE LRT from council meeting tonight, a minor amendment was made to the request from council for administration to undertake the pre-study work for the SE LRT, with the amendment now requiring both the Calgary Regional Partnership and the province to sign on, before it was just the city and the province.

Why the change? and what is the Calgary Regional Partnership?