Calgary Public Transit II

[Knoots]

Great website - thanks for putting that all together.

I don't know how running the SE LRT (and potential North LRT) up second street will function too well. Just looking at the two stations planned for downtown, imagine how many people are going to have to cram onto the subway platform at 6th Ave at evening rush hour. The NE, S and NW platforms are packed usually and there are three or four of those. It's a function of downtown Calgary being E-W wide rather than N-S. What do you guys think?

Originally Posted by outoftheice

I definately agree!! You essentially summed up the majority of the arguements I made towards a Centre Street configuration on the website I set up to advocate for a revised North Central LRT. Unfortunately the idea of an advocacy website has kind of stalled out as my computer skills are limited and I wasn't sure how to take it to the next level of public engagement. For those who are interested, you can take a look:

http://www.growsmart.ca

Somebody was asking about the alignment of the SE LRT as well.... the second page in from the website includes a google map depiction of the SE LRT alignment as well as the various proposals for the NC LRT.

Cheers,
outoftheice

[CorporateWhore]

Originally Posted by freeweed

Not to be an asshole (OK, I don't really care either way) but this sort of littering is really getting out of hand. Seems like every street corner has a bunch of crap on it some days

Little over dramatic no? Unless there are people dying left and right on the streets of Calgary, I don't see how this is that big of a problem. I can understand this sort of spontaneous act of grief, and I don't have a problem with it considering it's temporary anyway. In it's own way, public gatherings and reactions like this are what make a city have a heartbeat. Last thing Calgary needs is more anal bylaws to waste time and money on enforcing...

[Calgarian]

I like the fact that people make a little memorial like that, shows that we aren't all soulless assholes.

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by CorporateWhore

Little over dramatic no? Unless there are people dying left and right on the streets of Calgary, I don't see how this is that big of a problem. I can understand this sort of spontaneous act of grief, and I don't have a problem with it considering it's temporary anyway. In it's own way, public gatherings and reactions like this are what make a city have a heartbeat. Last thing Calgary needs is more anal bylaws to waste time and money on enforcing...

Eh, I'm not advocating jail time for people.

It just seems that every other light pole is getting covered with dying flowers and rotting teddy bears lately. If people cleaned up after themselves it wouldn't be so bad, but the city (and province) does spend a fair bit of time cleaning this stuff up. It'd be nice to see the money/effort spent on educating people to not have these things happen in the first place... but I guess I'm an idealist that way. It just feels like those endless ribbon campaigns, where people want to *show* they're doing something, but not actually do anything productive.

Mind you, I don't much understand the point of cemeteries either, so I may just be a heartless bastard.

[Ramsayfarian]

Originally Posted by Calgarian

I like the fact that people make a little memorial like that, shows that we aren't all soulless assholes.

I don't mind the memorials, I'm puzzled at why people leave toys though. It's not like the kid is going to play with them. I'd rather wish people would donate new toys to the Inn From the Cold in honur of the deceased.

[mersar]

Originally Posted by Knoots

Great website - thanks for putting that all together.

I don't know how running the SE LRT (and potential North LRT) up second street will function too well. Just looking at the two stations planned for downtown, imagine how many people are going to have to cram onto the subway platform at 6th Ave at evening rush hour. The NE, S and NW platforms are packed usually and there are three or four of those. It's a function of downtown Calgary being E-W wide rather than N-S. What do you guys think?

I don't think it will be too bad. The stations will be significantly longer (I'd imagine probably built for 5 LRV consists, and the low floor LRV's are often longer, the S70 Avanto can be 29m vs the 25m for the SD160 we currently use) and since it won't run in traffic keeping the frequency as often as possible shouldn't be too hard.

[rail car designer]

Originally Posted by mersar

I don't think it will be too bad. The stations will be significantly longer (I'd imagine probably built for 5 LRV consists, and the low floor LRV's are often longer, the S70 Avanto can be 29m vs the 25m for the SD160 we currently use) and since it won't run in traffic keeping the frequency as often as possible shouldn't be too hard.

The S70 is available in a variety of lengths. Houston and Portland being the longest, Charlotte and Norfolk mid length, Salt Lake City and the future San Diego the shortest and also the same length as the SD100/160 vehicles.

There are rumors of a 100% low floor vehicle in the works, should be interesting.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by rail car designer

The S70 is available in a variety of lengths. Houston and Portland being the longest, Charlotte and Norfolk mid length, Salt Lake City and the future San Diego the shortest and also the same length as the SD100/160 vehicles.

There are rumors of a 100% low floor vehicle in the works, should be interesting.

Not surprised - wasn't one offered in the Toronto LRV bid? If Siemens wants to win the Waterloo or Ottawa tenders I would suspect a 100% would need to be offered this time around.

[srperrycgy]

Siemens is a bit gun-shy with Ottawa after the city cancelled their contract and they sued them resulting in a $36M settlement.

[CTrainDude]

Originally Posted by srperrycgy

Siemens is a bit gun-shy with Ottawa after the city cancelled their contract and they sued them resulting in a $36M settlement.

Yes, and as a result, I don't think Siemens is the front runner for any LRV contracts in Ottawa - forever. Ottawa's a little upset about getting sued....

And for those who may not have seen it, on CPTDB, Tallis posted a video on YouTube of the SD160 Series 8's first trip down 7th Avenue.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHD_M9NMcWQ

[rail car designer]

Originally Posted by Sir.Humphrey.Appleby

Not surprised - wasn't one offered in the Toronto LRV bid? If Siemens wants to win the Waterloo or Ottawa tenders I would suspect a 100% would need to be offered this time around.

based on the vehicle bid for Toronto. an "american-ized" version is what's in the works.

Originally Posted by srperrycgy

Siemens is a bit gun-shy with Ottawa after the city cancelled their contract and they sued them resulting in a $36M settlement.

a typical light rail order has a 2 year period starting at signing the notice to proceed in which the vehicle is designed, ordered, first vehicle assembled and delivered. once a notice to proceed is signed, the wheels literally get turning in a very big way. engineering effort starts immediately. orders for materials are placed. personnel is hired. all of these things cost a LOT of money to cancel.

Originally Posted by CTrainDude

Yes, and as a result, I don't think Siemens is the front runner for any LRV contracts in Ottawa - forever. Ottawa's a little upset about getting sued....

And for those who may not have seen it, on CPTDB, Tallis posted a video on YouTube of the SD160 Series 8's first trip down 7th Avenue.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHD_M9NMcWQ

cool video.



in this business, contractors and customers are constantly butting heads on one front, and inking new deals on other fronts. it's pretty brutal at times.

[devonb]

Article in the Herald this morning about an LRT line to the airport:


CALGARY- An LRT link to Calgary International Airport may be high on the wish list for many civic boosters and transit lovers, but at Calgary Transit's planning offices, it's not even on the drawing board.

Tourism Calgary CEO Randy Williams is the latest person to urge that dream to become a reality, especially with the successes of Vancouver's new rail line to its airport.

"Accessibility and seamless transportation from one place to another is essential," Williams told a city council committee Wednesday.

But it's a costly idea, and one that aldermen are reluctant to embrace too quickly.

"What we need is a Winter Olympics," Ald. John Mar quipped, in a nod to the Vancouver Games that fast-tracked that city's transit expansion.

Neil McKendrick, Calgary Transit's senior planner, is emphatic when asked about what plans there are for an airport LRT station.

"None. It's not like we don't want one -- it's physically not possible," he said on Wednesday.

"To put an LRT over there would be a huge expense, and if you're talking tunnels, it's an even huger expense. And you'd carry about two to three thousand people a day, or about what we get from the least-used LRT system on the station."

It would cost about $500 million, McKendrick estimated. The city has four major LRT expansions already in queue -- the lines to the west, southeast and north-central area, as well as burying a line underneath 8th Avenue downtown.

The transit agency doesn't rule out a future airport LRT completely, however. In the interim, it's proposing a bus rapid transit service, likely within the next five years.

The service would snake up Centre Street N. and cross toward the airport at a soon-to-be extended 96th Avenue.

That would start building a bigger transit ridership for the airport at a smaller cost, McKendrick said.

A long discussed Airport Trail tunnel would likely include room for LRT tracks for a northeast spur line.

The city struck out in hopes of getting nearly $200 million from other government levels to help finance a $300-million Airport Trail tunnel beneath that runway, meaning it can only be built after the takeoff strip's 2014 completion, at double to triple the cost.

Williams also suggested to the council committee that the city could find other ways to pay for the tunnel. His one suggestion was to tap a source out of the city's control -- airport improvement fees, which the Calgary Airport Authority controls.

"I think if we looked at a dollar or two on an airport improvement fee, it wouldn't make a big difference to the salability of Calgary, but it would certainly help to pay, over a five-to 10-year amortization period, for a tunnel," he said.

But that pitch was also quickly shot down by an airport authority that plans to use its passenger levies -- now at $22 per departure -- solely for its own expansion plans.

"We don't contribute to city roads using the airport improvement fees," airport spokeswoman Jody Moseley said.

[email protected]

© Copyright (c) The Calgary Herald


Read more: http://www.calgaryherald.com/life/gardens/link+airport+rejected/3221639/story.html#ixzz0sRORGfnn

[Radley77]

Sorry if this has been posted already, I came across this article the other day in the Calgary Herald:

Forest Lawn may get its due, 100 years late

Alberta is full of old stories from its pioneer past. Some are good, some are bad -- but a rare few are not yet complete.

That's the case in the Calgary community of Forest Lawn, where locals hope city council will help finish one old yarn Monday and begin a new chapter in the eastside neighbourhood's long history.

It seems that 100 years ago -- as the community's roots were being established -- locals were attracted by the promise of a railway.

As the story goes, someone even put down railroad tracks, spurring settlers to pay extra for the chance to live in the vicinity.

Alas, the railroad never came for those unfortunate folks, no doubt leaving some hard feelings.

Now, a century later, there's anticipation Forest Lawn could still get its tracks one day -- LRT tracks.

It's part of a new vision for 17th Avenue S.E., the corridor that runs through the heart of Forest Lawn and other communities located on the city's east side.

"The railroad never happened," says Alison Karim-McSwiney of the International Avenue Business Revitalization Zone, which represents 435 businesses on 17th Avenue S.E.

After "100 years, we finally will have it, potentially, corrected."

On Monday, council will be asked to approve a new strategy for the corridor. The concept plan is to provide a template that will help the community realize its ambitions.

Currently, many Calgarians think of 17th Avenue S.E. as an east-west traffic route. Its streetscape includes restaurants, pawn shops, grocery stores, business offices, gas stations and even a bowling alley -- to name but a few.

Now, imagine a long, tree-lined street with spacious sidewalks on either side, pockets of little parks, LRT cars shuttling shoppers, bustling businesses and eateries, fashionable condos and architecture reflecting the local multicultural flare.

"It's really going to revitalize the neighbourhood," says Bruce Moreton, president of the Forest Lawn Community Association.

"It's going to (improve) the outlook that the rest of the city would have on Forest Lawn."

Business owners and residents with a stake in International Avenue's future believe they are on the cusp of something fantastic.

That's why they've been working so hard over the years on revitalization efforts. Karim-Mc-Swiney can name any number of initiatives, like tree planting, graffiti removal, a crime-prevention strategy, the additions of park benches, murals and flower baskets.

Monday's plan -- based on years of study and community input -- is really part of the area's evolution.

"The aldermen and the mayor want to do something," Karim-McSwiney says. "They've realized that we've put a lot of work in . . . and, really, the plan is phenomenal."

It's taken time to get here.

After all, the area hasn't exactly been Calgary's darling over the decades.

Forest Lawn was its own community before Calgary annexed it in 1961.

"Since that time -- even before that -- it had a bad rap," says Ald. Andre Chabot. "A lot of it stemmed from the fact they were an outsider . . . that got brought into the city."

But Chabot, one of Forest Lawn's biggest backers, believes the area will benefit from the new plan. One element he likes is the idea of a dedicated transit lane down the centre of 17th Avenue S.E.

"I say 'transit lane' because initially it will likely be just bus rapid transit, but in time, it will hopefully morph into something other than that -- like maybe a trolley, a tram or maybe LRT," Chabot says.

But it's one thing to approve a vision and another to fund it.

No one needs a plan that sits on a shelf.

That's why it's also important the city find a way to begin moving forward.

To that end, Chabot will propose the creation of a community revitalization levy.

That means the city would look at all of the proposed redevelopments along the avenue -- and all the potential ones -- and calculate the increase in tax revenues from those properties over 15 years.

Chabot says the city could then borrow what's needed to build the civic infrastructure today and use the growth in tax revenues from the redeveloped properties to pay down the loan.

"Essentially, it's a self-sustaining borrowing bylaw that leverages 15 years' worth of increased tax revenue," Chabot explains, noting it was Mayor Dave Bronconnier who suggested the idea.

The mayor has backed several initiatives in the community during his tenure. He likes this plan and has high hopes for it.

"This, I hope, will be a catalyst for redevelopment along the 17th Avenue S.E. corridor," he says. "It's like other areas. You just need to pay a little attention to it. It's what we did downtown. It's what we've done in Forest Lawn. This planning document is a result of that."

That's good for everybody. At a time when people are increasingly aware of the cost of building outward, investing in 17th Avenue S.E. just makes sense. The area already has many of the things new communities clamour for -- from schools to pools.

Council needs to approve the plan, then take it forward.

After all, it shouldn't take another hundred years for tracks.



Read more: http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/Forest+Lawn+years+late/3233716/story.html#ixzz0sqvFEAZg

After spending a week recently in Toronto, I ended up using the streetcar system a lot. I had used trams a bit before in Manchester, UK.

What areas do you folks think could have the best potential for streetcars in Calgary?

[DarkKeyo]

Good to hear that they're considering rapid transit along 17th. A future East LRT line would be useful.

The streetcar question has been asked before, but I've walked around the Beltline a lot since then. 17th Av SW from at least 1 St to 14 St; 4 St SW from Downtown to Mission; 1 St SW and 8 St SW. And maybe 12 Ave S.

[srperrycgy]

Acquired a couple of CTrain postcards through eBay.

From 1985:




From 1981:

[Calalb]

^ Indeed! Thanks for posting!

[You Need A Thneed]

NE LRT construction update:

Saddletowne station:

For the station itself, it looks like they might be almost ready to start putting on the precast platform sections. The grade beams beneath are nearly complete. The concrete retaining walls/strom drains beside the tracks have been done for a while.

The park and ride lot has been getting curbs poured. They are going to have the parking lot complete well in advance of the station, to be used by construction personnel.

Martindale Station:

Perhaps even closer to seeing precast platform sections, you can see how how the ramps up onto the platforms will be when complete.

ROW through Martindale:

It looks like it pretty much has been dug down as far as it needs to go, and is well compacted, ready for some backfill. The sound walls are complete along the whole length, as far as I can tell

Tunnel under 64th Ave:

Crews have removed the grading that was done for the interchange when the interchange was going ahead, and used that to fill the area where the completed road will go, I think they have started digging down for the tunnel as well. Lots of equipment is on site. I'm sure it will really pick up soon.

Pedestrian Overpass at McKnight Westwinds:

They are forming the piers and the ramps for the pedestrian bridge. The giant steel arches have been on site for quite a while. The centre pier is quite high, due to the LRT tracks being at a higher elevation than Metis Trail is. it will be a fairly long bridge when it is complete, around 100 metres I think. One spans is across all the lanes of Metis Trail in both directions, then the nest span goes from just beside Metis Trail on the East side all the way over the LRT tracks where the ramp comes down towards the bus loop.

The bridge will be an excellent place to take skyline shots from on Sunny days , especially when the mountains can be seen in the background.

Whitehorn Station:

The area where the platform will be extended has been fenced off, and the railings/gates at the south end of the platform have been removed. The concrete emergency ramp down was being jackhammered out today. We should start seeing the forming of the new grade beams soon I think. PCL construction has their logo posted all over the station.

[Wooster]

I wonder if an LRT line that ran basically the current 305 BRT route from Forest Lawn all the way west to Bowness would make any sense. Certainly the east leg, but could neighbourhoods like West Hillhurst - Parkdale - Montgomery and Bowness provide enough critical mass to support a line? could it run on Memorial drive or 16h avenue in this part of town?

[mersar]

Noticed the BRT park and ride at Mckenzie Towne has been partially paved and curbs are going in, so it won't be much longer until its ready for use. Its actually a good size, bigger then I expected it to be.

[DavidKuitunen]

Does anyone have photos of what the Series 8 SD160 looks like on the inside?