Millennium Line - Evergreen Extension | Completed

[eduardo88]

Originally Posted by cabotp

Because we have IDIOTS in this world. Who feel their nice Tram train is far superior to the our Skytrain. Hence forth why we have to have this stupid debate every — time.

I think that, and SpongeG's comment pretty much sum it all up

[deasine]

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

Apparently Hitachi make LIM trains, but we've never really put out SkyTrain replacement cars out to tender, have we?

Well we don't know who is the ultimate winner, but Bombardier does seem to be the likely contender. That being said, the contracting company constructing the line (i.e. SNC/Lavalin) may also be the the private partner and Bombardier only acting as a rolling stock supplier.

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

As for Tokyo's multiple companies... it's all changed in the past few years. Suica ( their smartcard system ) is used on many of the lines in Tokyo. In addition, you can use the same card in Osaka's Icoca system.

Don't forget, Japanese phones also have their smartcard chip and could be used as a mobile wallet.

[Kwik-E-Mart]

I am not sure if this has been discussed, but inside sources have indicated to me that the end of the line at Douglas College will be similar to King George -- a set of layoff tracks beyond the station... but this time it will be on the ground. Also to compromise on the costs, the province has decided against building Lincoln Station at this time (which is contrary to what have been told to other posters earlier in this thread), leaving Coquitlam to be the lone proponent to have the extra stop completed by 2014.

If this is the case, then I would rather have a single-tracked platform like Canada Line's Brighouse Station. Talk about the potential fugliness right next to Lafarge Lake!

[officedweller]

They wouldn't have a tail-track at grade if the last station is elevated - that would increase the length of the tail track to account for the slope - doen't make sense.

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by Kwik-E-Mart

I am not sure if this has been discussed, but inside sources have indicated to me that the end of the line at Douglas College will be similar to King George -- a set of layoff tracks beyond the station... but this time it will be on the ground. Also to compromise on the costs, the province has decided against building Lincoln Station at this time (which is contrary to what have been told to other posters earlier in this thread), leaving Coquitlam to be the lone proponent to have the extra stop completed by 2014.

If this is the case, then I would rather have a single-tracked platform like Canada Line's Brighouse Station. Talk about the potential fugliness right next to Lafarge Lake!

That would be short-sighted, because I can't believe that anyone expects Douglas College to be the end of the line. Just like we all know the Expo line will be extended south past King George or Millennium will be extended west past VCC (the end of the line stations today), I won't be surprised to see Evergreen extended past Douglas College to a) east on David Ave to Pitt River; or b) West on David Ave to Ioco; or c) north up Pipeline after the pits are exhausted and housing goes in there.

I think its better the build the present-day terminal as a two-track platform with twin-track layup & reversing tracks with the expectation that these tracks will be extended to another 'end of the line station' in the future. Do it right the first time, so it doesn't have to be un-done and re-done later (adding costs to future work) when the inevitable extension past Douglas College gets built.

The only stations I can say with confidence will remain as terminal stations during our lifetimes will be YVR Airport station, and UBC Wesbrook Mall Transit loop since there is no need to extend those lines further west. Even Wesbrook is iffy because someone may decide to be cute & extend Millennium one more stop to UBC Wreck Beach Station.

[Mac Write]

UBC needs a PRT system for getting people from the bus loop to all the housing and class building around the massive campus.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by jsbertram

Even Wesbrook is iffy because someone may decide to be cute & extend Millennium one more stop to UBC Wreck Beach Station.

Yeah, or to South Campus (and 41st Ave beyond...)

[flight_from_kamakura]

man, a wreck beach-ish station, would make negotiating that campus so much easier. one of the worst imaginable fates is a rainy tuesday morning, slogging from that busloop over clear across campus.

[PureBunk]

Originally Posted by jsbertram

That would be short-sighted, because I can't believe that anyone expects Douglas College to be the end of the line. Just like we all know the Expo line will be extended south past King George or Millennium will be extended west past VCC (the end of the line stations today), I won't be surprised to see Evergreen extended past Douglas College to a) east on David Ave to Pitt River; or b) West on David Ave to Ioco; or c) north up Pipeline after the pits are exhausted and housing goes in there.

I think its better the build the present-day terminal as a two-track platform with twin-track layup & reversing tracks with the expectation that these tracks will be extended to another 'end of the line station' in the future. Do it right the first time, so it doesn't have to be un-done and re-done later (adding costs to future work) when the inevitable extension past Douglas College gets built.

The only stations I can say with confidence will remain as terminal stations during our lifetimes will be YVR Airport station, and UBC Wesbrook Mall Transit loop since there is no need to extend those lines further west. Even Wesbrook is iffy because someone may decide to be cute & extend Millennium one more stop to UBC Wreck Beach Station.

Douglas will be the end of the line because it has absolutely nowhere to expand. It's all suburbia in North Coquitlam and Port Coquitlam. Extending skytrain north or along David, east or west, would just be a HUGE waste of money because it wouldn't go anywhere. It would only service the very few people who live there, and the fewer who would choose to take transit over driving. Not to mention how hilly it gets which would cause problems. In my opinion if it were to be "done right the first time" then they would have to build the line going north on Ioco, then follow Guildford Way (instead of the train tracks along the Barnett) and then turning south on Pinetree with the terminus being Coquitlam Station. This would leave a far better opportunity to extend the line west... but that idea would significantly complicate the design. My point being that they should just do what they did in Richmond and YVR, and just have the single set of tracks leading to the Douglas terminus.

[nname]

Originally Posted by officedweller

They wouldn't have a tail-track at grade if the last station is elevated - that would increase the length of the tail track to account for the slope - doen't make sense.

Actually, the elevation of Pinetree at Guildford is 32m according to Google Earth.. and it gradually increase to 37m in front of Douglas College. So I think the station can be built partically at grade.

Originally Posted by PureBunk

Douglas will be the end of the line because it has absolutely nowhere to expand. It's all suburbia in North Coquitlam and Port Coquitlam. Extending skytrain north or along David, east or west, would just be a HUGE waste of money because it wouldn't go anywhere. It would only service the very few people who live there, and the fewer who would choose to take transit over driving. Not to mention how hilly it gets which would cause problems. In my opinion if it were to be "done right the first time" then they would have to build the line going north on Ioco, then follow Guildford Way (instead of the train tracks along the Barnett) and then turning south on Pinetree with the terminus being Coquitlam Station. This would leave a far better opportunity to extend the line west... but that idea would significantly complicate the design. My point being that they should just do what they did in Richmond and YVR, and just have the single set of tracks leading to the Douglas terminus.

Actually, it is possible to extend the line north and add one more station at David Ave. At that point, I'd agree that extending the line any furthur would be a waste. Running the train at grade to David would only require a grade of 3.5%.

[Zassk]

Is there any realistic chance that the line will be extended past Douglas to PoCo? I thought the plan is to set in stone to have any future PoCo spur go from Coquitlam Central Station.

After many months of the Canada Line.... I have to admit that the single track is an elegant way to end a line. Imagine having a storage track like VCC in the middle of UBC, Lafarge, or Richmond Centre...

What we could do with Evergreen is build double tracks from Coquitlam to Douglas, but only use one of the tracks for revenue service (like Canada Line), and use the second track as storage between those stations.

[paradigm4]

Originally Posted by Zassk

Is there any realistic chance that the line will be extended past Douglas to PoCo? I thought the plan is to set in stone to have any future PoCo spur go from Coquitlam Central Station.

After many months of the Canada Line.... I have to admit that the single track is an elegant way to end a line. Imagine having a storage track like VCC in the middle of UBC, Lafarge, or Richmond Centre...

What we could do with Evergreen is build double tracks from Coquitlam to Douglas, but only use one of the tracks for revenue service (like Canada Line), and use the second track as storage between those stations.

I know that it's just smart planning to keep all future extensions opportunities open, but I don't understand this desire to extend into PoCo. The City has a population of 55,000! It's a pittance, not to mention it already has a WCE station. It won't be that far to drive to the Coquitlam park and ride and I'm sure bus connections to the Evergreen will improve significantly. I just don't think anyone could justify an extension into PoCo when there's far greater demands in the region.

[Kwik-E-Mart]

Originally Posted by paradigm4

I know that it's just smart planning to keep all future extensions opportunities open, but I don't understand this desire to extend into PoCo. The City has a population of 55,000! It's a pittance, not to mention it already has a WCE station. It won't be that far to drive to the Coquitlam park and ride and I'm sure bus connections to the Evergreen will improve significantly. I just don't think anyone could justify an extension into PoCo when there's far greater demands in the region.

No worries, once the Evergreen is done all the attention will shift to Vancouver and South of the Fraser.

Regardless of LRT or SkyTrain, we are unlikely to see any construction beyond the spur towards Poco at Coquitlam Central for the next 30 years at least. With less intersections to cross along Lougheed Hwy, lower land acquisition costs, and lower population expectations, this is where an LRT line to Maple Ridge would be a better solution -- but again I don't think this will happen until 2040-2050 at least as SkyTrains are expected to penetrate deeper into Surrey (and maybe Langley City) as well as Vancouver's Broadway Corridor. The potential of taking away the WCE market share as mentioned by a lot of posters a while ago does not help the cause for SkyTrain east of Coquitlam Central either (having SkyTrain connections at Coquitlam and Pomo gives WCE riders access to areas outside of Downtown Vancouver -- however having SkyTrain running parallel to WCE for an extended length... I don't need to complete the sentence).

However, as a person who lives in Poco I am going to have to differ from your opinion that it is only a small town of 55,000. Right now the residential density is at 28 ppha (which is slightly less than Burnaby [30 ppha] and more than Coquitlam and Surrey [18 and 22 ppha respectively]). [Data for other municipalities are available at http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/cas/mitigation/ceei/RegionalDistricts/Metro-Vancouver/]

In terms of sheer size it is only a little bigger than New Westminster. That's not to mention about the 95,000-100,000 population that is expected for Poco according to the 2040 Metro Vancouver Regional Plan. Like many land-challenged areas in the region (with that gargantuan CP Rail Yard in the middle, ALR lands to the east, and Colony Farm Park to the southwest) the City has nowhere to go but up.

The tower at Shaughnessy Street and Lougheed is one of a series of high-rises that are in the works. There will be at least a four-tower development complex at the City Works site near Downtown Poco and the two tower development at Freemont Village mentioned in other threads. Given the land constraints I have mentioned in the last paragraph, more high and low-rise developments are expected to come.

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by paradigm4

I know that it's just smart planning to keep all future extensions opportunities open, but I don't understand this desire to extend into PoCo. The City has a population of 55,000! It's a pittance, not to mention it already has a WCE station. It won't be that far to drive to the Coquitlam park and ride and I'm sure bus connections to the Evergreen will improve significantly. I just don't think anyone could justify an extension into PoCo when there's far greater demands in the region.

I agree it seems silly to think of more Millennium line in Coquitlam today, but there will be a tipping point when the population will justify it. We think of Ioco as an empty area with Esso's old refinery & other industry. Developers have been looking at that area for decades figuring out how many homes can be built along the north side of the Harbour and east side of Deep Cove to fill in the 'gaps' between Belcarra, Woodhaven and Sasamat lake, between Belvedere, Buntzen Lake and Anmore, and the space from the western tip of Barnet Point, through Ioco and Pleasantside to Port Moody. We see the 'gaps' today as unspoilt wilderness, but developers see them as future housing if the zoning laws can be changed.

My guesstimate is there's room for another 50-60 thousand people living there. And everyone's commute will start by driving east to get around Port Moody before turning west to get around SFU on the way downtown. The smart ones will park & ride at Port Moody to take the WCE downtown -if there's any space left for enlarging parking lots. Even smarter would be a shuttle bus service to get from these new areas to the WCE / Evergreen station, but eventually the population growth will push for a more reliable transit service than shuttles or regular buses.

Why isn't Zwei pushing for his beloved LRT along David Ave in Coquitlam?
Oh, right ... wrong city.

[GeeCee]

Does it really make a whole lot of sense to single track beyond Coquitlam station? I think that Lincoln, if it is ever built, would see a lot of boardings there.

[Kwik-E-Mart]

Originally Posted by GeeCee

Does it really make a whole lot of sense to single track beyond Coquitlam station? I think that Lincoln, if it is ever built, would see a lot of boardings there.

Lincoln should have more riders than Douglas but less than Coquitlam Central given the latter's status as a major transit exchange. Perhaps the province could single track it after the Lincoln Station site just like Lansdowne Station and hopefully use the $$$ saved from the extra platform + layoff tracks at Douglas (contributions from Morguard and other developers would be a huge bonus) to get Lincoln Station built by 2014.

[deasine]

I think you can make a single track after Lincoln (or the proposed station), though this time, I think it should be constructed in a way so that any double tracking in the future would not force a closure.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by paradigm4

I know that it's just smart planning to keep all future extensions opportunities open, but I don't understand this desire to extend into PoCo. The City has a population of 55,000! It's a pittance, not to mention it already has a WCE station. It won't be that far to drive to the Coquitlam park and ride and I'm sure bus connections to the Evergreen will improve significantly. I just don't think anyone could justify an extension into PoCo when there's far greater demands in the region.

One of the reasons is to shape growth - so that all of the growth is not on the south side of the Fraser - they want growth on both sides of the river to be somewhat balanced (and that's not happening now because SkyTrain when to Surrey almost 20 years ago).

[GeeCee]

I agree with single tracking from Lincoln to Douglas in terms of capacity.. but it'd make sense to me to use that length as storage track. If you're talking about such a small length of track, Lafarge Lake or no, why not just double track the whole thing? I don't think the cost savings can really be that substantial.

[BCPhil]

If there is no plan to extend Skytrain past Douglas College, then I think the alignment is terribly wrong. The only reason you would align it so the Terminus is facing North on Pinetree Way is if you want to extend the track in the future into Burke Mountain.

Otherwise it would make a lot more sense to build Skytrain down Guildford Way, have a station at Guildford and Pinetree for Douglas, then head South to a terminus at Coquitlam. Then you can extend it either into Port Coquitlam and East towards the Pitt River, or South towards the new Port Mann. That way you wouldn't have branches that cut train frequency in half.

The only reason to build the terminus at Douglas College is so future extensions can be made into Burke Mountain. It's mostly undeveloped and can start off being very high density. I think the Foot Hills at Burke mountain is going to be a healthy mix of SFH, Townhomes and condos. Most of Burke Mountain can be that in the future if Skytrain extension into the area is possible. I can see demand warranting an extension from Douglas to David and Pipeline to serve as a community shuttle hub shortly after the line is built. And it doesn't need to be done mega project style, but like how Skytrain was gradually extended from Scott Road to King George. When it's all above ground you can easily build it one station every few years to spread out the cost.