[Halifax] Nova Centre | 65-58-58 m | 16-15-14 fl | Completed

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by phrenic

For many people, it all comes down to the fact that the same people responsible for the commonwealth games fiasco now want to spend $100+ million of taxpayer money on something where there is no guarantee - however likely it actually is - that the money will be made back. Most people simply don't realize the spin-off benefits that will occur and just aren't that trusting of bureaucrats. TCL really needs to hire a formal PR firm like MT&L to figure out how to educate people on the tax revenues and other ways that the public money will be made back.

I have to agree with this point. That people need to be educated on the benefits of a convention centre. Most of the financial benefits to the province and federal governments will come from sales tax on hotels and restaurants. There are also the direct benefits from all the jobs that the construction will create. Then there are the indirect benefits in terms of promoting the city as a business and tourist destination.

I am concerned that the neither the NDP nor the HRM has been clearly stating the benefits of such a trade centre. There are numerous columns in the paper giving all sorts of distorted information, but few columns that state all the direct and indirect benefits.

If Nova Scotians feel that a trade centre is unnecessary, then it would make sense that the NS Tourism Department is unnecessary. They are both meant to do the same thing - promote the city and province. To me attracting people to the city and giving a good impression of the city is an important form of advertising.

[halifaxboyns]

The benefits of building a project like this are often the same as say *thinks* - if Halifax were to ever get the high speed system built or do an LRT/heavy rail commuter system or even (god forbid) a subway.

There is often a huge investment of public dollars - the Canada line is a great example (Fenwick help me out here) - wasn't it about 4 billion? Something like that or more?

So using the same idea - if Halifax were to build a subway of any sort, it would be billions of dollars. Well obviously; it's not going to be paid for tomorrow or next year - it will take 30 to 40 years. But there are other spin offs that happen with that (or even high speed ferries, rail etc.): Increased tax dollars due to increased investment.

A great example of that was the younge-sheppard line in Toronto. It was considered the subway to no where - no where near as much density to support the line; costing billions of $. But as it was being built, developers were putting together large parcels and submitting new applications and since - the density all along the line has been increasing. So when the TTC planned to shut it down, of course not only did the users get upset - but so did the developers who had approvals or their applications in the works. Because they hedged their bets on being able to build TOD style buildings, with less parking - supporting the subway.

The short of it is - a centre like this will attract conventions (obviously whatever the existing WTC attracts and possibly more). But what will also improve is if it's class 1 or 2 conferences; then more people will come to attend - filling hotels (and possibly supporting the need for more rooms); increased use of flights coming in and out (which may support increased capacity for flights at YHZ), etc. Those are the best I can think of right now; but obviously other spin offs such as meals in restaurants, buying collectables for their trip, drinks at some pubs and taking in some tourist things is also possible. But the other big thing it will do is expose people to Halifax and the stat i'm hearing is that 'typically' 60 to 70% of conference business come back to explore the place as tourists. Can you imagine the economic spin offs from that; assuming each family/couple came back and spent $1000 on their trip? It would really help.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by terrynorthend

OMG! I haven't heard that name in years! I used to deliver the Mail-Star after school when I was a kid.

So did I, in Clayton Park. (1980s)

[someone123]

Originally Posted by phrenic

I realize this was announced a week or more ago, but TCL hired the same woman to do PR for the Convention Centre as for the Canada Games. Really? They couldn't have found anyone who didn't still have the stench of secrecy, failure and bloated costs hanging above them?

It really does feel like competence is in short supply when it comes to the government in NS and Halifax. My worry with this is that the convention centre will be torpedoed and then there will be another decade of paralyzing indecision.

It is very much like the Commonwealth Games. It would have been totally reasonable to build a very decent new stadium, upgrade some other facilities, and hold some sort of larger-scale event. Because the planning and coordination was so poor, we had a $1.5B (or whatever it was) pipe dream and ended up with nothing except a bill. It was pretty close to a worst-case scenario - embarrassingly poor but seemingly par for the course in Halifax.

[DigitalNinja]

Originally Posted by sdm

its a data and cheque processing centre for a number of banks.

Symcore regional processing facility.

[halifaxboyns]

I've always believed that if they had been coordinated - the commonwealth bid could've been a real option for the city. I never believe that a City's size should ever hinder it - I mean, we had a G8 for godsake!

I'd be all in favour of an expo bid - even volunteer to help out if they went forward, granted a new convention centre helps that a lot lol.

[fenwick16]

I consider this to be a good sign. An HRM staff report states that the Rank Corp proposal fully conforms with the HRM by Design guildlines. (source: http://thechronicleherald.ca/Business/1183030.html#recommends )

Petitions fail to sway city
Controversial development proposals within guidelines, according to report
By BRUCE ERSKINE Business Reporter
Tue. May 18 - 4:53 AM

A city staff information report to be tabled at council today concludes that a plan to construct an 18-storey building on the former Halifax Herald site as part of a convention centre complex conforms with new downtown development regulations. (Peter Parsons / Staff)</p>]

City staff have shot down two petitions aimed at derailing major developments in Halifax, including the proposed new downtown convention centre.

A petition to council dated April 6 asked Halifax Regional Municipality not to provide public funds or lands to allow a private developer to block the view of the centre harbour and Georges Island from the roadway on Citadel Hill.

But a staff information report to be tabled at council today concludes that Rank Inc.’s plan to build an 18-storey building on the former Halifax Herald property and a 14-storey building on the former Midtown Tavern site as part of the convention centre complex conforms fully with new downtown development regulations, including protection of sightlines from Citadel Hill.

"Regional council deliberately entrenched the proposed massing and height of the proposed convention centre within the new downtown Halifax land-use bylaw and did so only after public consultation and a public hearing," said the staff report, prepared by planning applications supervisor Kelly Denty.

"The view of the centre harbour and Georges Island from the roadway on Citadel Hill is not and has never been a protected view under the land-use bylaw."

The report noted that Rank has until July 19 to submit a detailed design and cost proposal for the convention centre.

"No decisions have been made to date on whether or not any public moneys will be expended on the project," the report says.

Rank Inc. principal Joe Ramia could not be reached for comment Monday.

Municipal staff also gave a thumbs-down to a 270-signature petition dated April 27 asking council to stop the rezoning of 26 hectares of land on Hines Road and Howard Avenue in Eastern Passage owned by Armco Capital, an Armoyan company.

The lands are designated industrial under the municipal planning strategy and are zoned for both residential and industrial development.

Armco wants the residential designation applied to all of the land and is requesting a policy amendment to allow more than 12 units per multi-unit building on the property.

In a public information meeting in March, Armco presented a conceptual plan for the lands that includes 180 multiple units in three buildings plus 54 townhouse units.

Community development planner Mitch Dickey said the lands have as-of-right development potential under applicable R-1 zoning for single-unit dwellings and I-1 light industrial zoning.

"Many of the concerns expressed at the public meeting regarding Armco’s proposed development, such as those relating to traffic, loss of treed buffers, sewage treatment and wetland impacts, are the same in either scenario," Dickey said in the report to council.

He said the next step is for Armco to address concerns raised at the March meeting and provide more detailed project information.

"The standard planning process should continue, and this will result in a staff report which contains sufficient information for regional council to make an informed decision on the requested amendments," he said.

Armco officials declined comment when contacted Monday.

( [email protected])

[sdm]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

I consider this to be a good sign. An HRM staff report states that the Rank Corp proposal fully conforms with the HRM by Design guildlines. (source: http://thechronicleherald.ca/Business/1183030.html#recommends )

The statement is kind of misleading in the report.

The height would be allowed under HRM by Design, however the design would not fit within the scope of HRM by Design as it would not meet the FAR ratios and angle controls of the guide.

The save the view coalition needs to go quiet, the project doesn't block protected views.

The real discussion should come down to the business case, not planning rules.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by sdm

The real discussion should come down to the business case, not planning rules.

Yes, it should be an open, unbiased discussion. If such a thing is possible. However, trade shows are like mini world expositions (or actually many mini expositions). Certainly the cities (i.e. businessmen) that host large trade shows are the cities that are promoting themselves and creating jobs for residents. So if the Nova Centre does not go ahead, what is the alternative? Is the Cunard Centre large enough to serve business trade shows for the Halifax area (in order to attract business from other parts of Canada and internationally)? Possibly, a larger convention centre such as the Nova Centre might also result in more business for the Cunard Centre by bringing more people to the city.

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

Yes, it should be an open, unbiased discussion. If such a thing is possible. However, trade shows are like mini world expositions (or actually many mini expositions). Certainly the cities (i.e. businessmen) that host large trade shows are the cities that are promoting themselves and creating jobs for residents. So if the Nova Centre does not go ahead, what is the alternative? Is the Cunard Centre large enough to serve business trade shows for the Halifax area (in order to attract business from other parts of Canada and internationally)? Possibly, a larger convention centre such as the Nova Centre might also result in more business for the Cunard Centre by bringing more people to the city.

I am hopefully that the planning merits can be argued in a manner that will be brief and be a matter of - it works (or doesn't) and then the business case becomes the main focus.

That being said, I had a quick peek at the MGA and I believe that the government would have the power to override and go ahead no matter what. But it's rare that stuff like that happens.

[planarchy]

Petitions fail to sway city
Controversial development proposals within guidelines, according to report
By BRUCE ERSKINE Business Reporter
Tue. May 18 - 4:53 AM

A city staff information report to be tabled at council today concludes that a plan to construct an 18-storey building on the former Halifax Herald site as part of a convention centre complex conforms with new downtown development regulations. (Peter Parsons / Staff)



City staff have shot down two petitions aimed at derailing major developments in Halifax, including the proposed new downtown convention centre.

A petition to council dated April 6 asked Halifax Regional Municipality not to provide public funds or lands to allow a private developer to block the view of the centre harbour and Georges Island from the roadway on Citadel Hill.

But a staff information report to be tabled at council today concludes that Rank Inc.’s plan to build an 18-storey building on the former Halifax Herald property and a 14-storey building on the former Midtown Tavern site as part of the convention centre complex conforms fully with new downtown development regulations, including protection of sightlines from Citadel Hill.

"Regional council deliberately entrenched the proposed massing and height of the proposed convention centre within the new downtown Halifax land-use bylaw and did so only after public consultation and a public hearing," said the staff report, prepared by planning applications supervisor Kelly Denty.

"The view of the centre harbour and Georges Island from the roadway on Citadel Hill is not and has never been a protected view under the land-use bylaw."

The report noted that Rank has until July 19 to submit a detailed design and cost proposal for the convention centre.

"No decisions have been made to date on whether or not any public moneys will be expended on the project," the report says.

Rank Inc. principal Joe Ramia could not be reached for comment Monday.

Municipal staff also gave a thumbs-down to a 270-signature petition dated April 27 asking council to stop the rezoning of 26 hectares of land on Hines Road and Howard Avenue in Eastern Passage owned by Armco Capital, an Armoyan company.

The lands are designated industrial under the municipal planning strategy and are zoned for both residential and industrial development.

Armco wants the residential designation applied to all of the land and is requesting a policy amendment to allow more than 12 units per multi-unit building on the property.

In a public information meeting in March, Armco presented a conceptual plan for the lands that includes 180 multiple units in three buildings plus 54 townhouse units.

Community development planner Mitch Dickey said the lands have as-of-right development potential under applicable R-1 zoning for single-unit dwellings and I-1 light industrial zoning.

"Many of the concerns expressed at the public meeting regarding Armco’s proposed development, such as those relating to traffic, loss of treed buffers, sewage treatment and wetland impacts, are the same in either scenario," Dickey said in the report to council.

He said the next step is for Armco to address concerns raised at the March meeting and provide more detailed project information.

"The standard planning process should continue, and this will result in a staff report which contains sufficient information for regional council to make an informed decision on the requested amendments," he said.

Armco officials declined comment when contacted Monday.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Looks like we'll probably see something tall on this site, convention centre or no convention centre.

Take that shady groups trying to push your bogus agenda.

[sdm]

Originally Posted by worldlyhaligonian

Looks like we'll probably see something tall on this site, convention centre or no convention centre.

Take that shady groups trying to push your bogus agenda.

actually thats not the case. If the trade centre doesn't go then the special bonus height gets reverted back to levels determined under HRM by Design, which is 8 stories more or less.

[fenwick16]

I am sure that the height of the buildings is their primary objection. I just wonder what these groups could achieve if they actually had a worthwhile cause to fight for.

[Nilan8888]

A great example of that was the younge-sheppard line in Toronto. It was considered the subway to no where - no where near as much density to support the line; costing billions of $. But as it was being built, developers were putting together large parcels and submitting new applications and since - the density all along the line has been increasing. So when the TTC planned to shut it down, of course not only did the users get upset - but so did the developers who had approvals or their applications in the works. Because they hedged their bets on being able to build TOD style buildings, with less parking - supporting the subway.

As a frequent user of that line I can say that it IS the subway to nowhere, but for the completely opposite reasons: not nearly enough of an investment was put into it. Development is following the subway line and that's great... the problem is that there's not nearly enough subway line.

The Sheppard line was stopped at least one major street short of where it should have gone to (Victoria Park, but it was stopped at Don Mills instead), and should have continued out Westward beyond Yongue.

TO now has a pitiful transit system for its size and I'd urge any city to learn from TO's mistakes and plan ahead. Altogether the TTC is currently acknowledged as the worst system in North America... that's right, ranking BENEATH Los Angeles. The downtown manages fine, but with Toronto one of the more geographically large cities in Canada or anywhere, that counts for a very small part of the picture.

Halifax needs some sort of plan to avoid this from happening. It's got time to spare but now is really the point they should be investing. Whatever happened to those high-speed ferries, anyway?

And oh yeah -- build the Convention Centre already.

[hfxtradesman]

Got a little info today. Pricing is still going on slowly, but it seems that EVERYBODY is on board with this project. Hopefully we'll know more soon.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by hfxtradesman

Got a little info today. Pricing is still going on slowly, but it seems that EVERYBODY is on board with this project. Hopefully we'll know more soon.

Great news. I still hope that the convention centre will come in on budget. It doesn't have to be elaborate just functional.

There is a new website with information on the Nova Centre at https://conventioncentreinfo.com/?page_id=228

[beyeas]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

Great news. I still hope that the convention centre will come in on budget. It doesn't have to be elaborate just functional.

There is a new website with information on the Nova Centre at https://conventioncentreinfo.com/?page_id=228

Thanks for finding the new website. It is interesting to see how WTCL is taking the offensive on some of the issues (like whether it will affect viewplans etc).

Also, based on the site, it seems like news should be expected sometime after July 19th (the deadline for Rank to submit the full submission.

[Jonovision]

A mighty ally for centre

By ROGER TAYLOR BUSINESS COLUMNIST
Fri. Jun 11 - 4:54 AM



The influential Nova Scotia Chambers of Commerce has come out in support of the proposed new convention centre in downtown Halifax.

The existing World Trade and Convention Centre must be recognized as an economic engine for the province, says Wayne Fiander, president of the group.

"Investment in this type of asset is critical to the sustained growth of the province."

The convention centre project can serve as a catalyst, he says in a letter, stimulating investments in hotels, restaurants and other businesses.

Comprised of 32 chambers of commerce across the province, the provincial organization claims to be the chief advocacy group for more than 6,700 business owners.

Fiander says the current convention facility in Halifax has been a success but, after 30 years, it needs to be replaced.

"A great deal has changed in the conference and meeting industry. While upgrades can overcome some of these constraints, the bottom line is that, in terms of competition with other facilities, ours is outclassed."

The convention centre would be only one part of a major hotel, office and retail complex proposed for the downtown. The entire project is estimated to cost close to $400 million to build, with the convention centre portion costing about $120 million.

Funding for the convention centre would be shared between the provincial government, Ottawa and the Halifax Regional Municipality.

A study conducted for the province by Deloitte consultants recommends the convention centre be structured on a design-build-finance-maintain model for ownership and operation. That would mean the private developer, Rank Inc., would own the facility and be responsible for the design, construction and ongoing maintenance of the facility. The private partner would finance the project in return for an annual lease payment over an agreed term.

The province’s Trade Centre Ltd., the current operator of the World Trade and Convention Centre, would be responsible for sales and marketing, catering and general site operations.

Fiander says some people may have trouble with the proposed public-private partnership, but many of the economic benefits of a convention facility can only be achieved by government.

"Surely the provincial government would not want to say no to $30 million in additional revenue that will be generated over just 10 years of operating the new facility. Objections to private-sector involvement is simply reflex," he says.

That’s the view of the Nova Scotia Chambers of Commerce, and now Trade Centre Ltd. has launched a website to provide information and gather feedback about the proposal.

The site, www.conventioncentreinfo.com, provides background on the project, has a weekly discussion forum and invites feedback.

The information already available on the site includes preliminary convention centre reports and a recently completed JDA Architects report that reviewed the practicality of renovating the current convention centre to meet the specifications in the request for proposals for a new convention facility.

In addition to the website, Trade Centre Ltd. will host public open houses at the World Trade and Convention Centre on June 23 from 6:30 p.m. to 8:30 p.m. and on June 24 from noon to 2 p.m.

The detailed submission from the developer, with a design and facility management plan, financing and price, is due July 19. A decision on whether the project will proceed will follow a detailed evaluation by the provincial government.

( [email protected])

[Haliguy]

Thats good news!