Edmonton Public Transit

[Coldrsx]

"New York City (subway) - 7,791,700/day | 369 km"

simply unreal

[ue]

^Pretty much any Canadian city would be just as high if there was as much track and 20 000 000 in the metropolitan region.

[Jasper and one o nin]

Moscow 8,952,000 passengers 293 km

[Mikemike]

Originally Posted by edmontonenthusiast

^Pretty much any Canadian city would be just as high if there was as much track and 20 000 000 in the metropolitan region.

Completely meaningless conjecture, and probably not true.

[ue]

^Perhaps no different than your post.

Not untrue when I look at it.

If these cities had 369km of track based on their current ridership they'd have

Montreal - 5.1 million/day
Toronto - 6.09 million/day (subway+streetcar)
Vancouver - 1.8 million/day
Calgary - 2.01 million/day
Edmonton - 1.3 million/day

And this isn't even taking into considering the population required to make such an amount of track realistic, which would likely make these numbers at least double considering the percentage of people in each city who currently take the LRT/subway system in their given cities (and would be higher in raw number if the popualtion were higher).

Edit here

If the five cities listed above had 20 000 000 inhabitants based on the current percentage of city residents who use the system their ridership would be as follows:

Montreal - 27% of current population uses subway | 5.4 million riders if Montreal had 20mil
Toronto - 22% of current population uses subway/streetcar | 4.4 million riders if Toronto had 20mil
Vancouver - 16% of current population uses elevated rail | 3.2 million riders if Vancouver had 20mil
Calgary - 25% of current population uses light rail transit | 5 million riders if Calgary had 20mil
Edmonton - 7% of current population uses light rail transit | 1.4 million riders if Edmonton had 20mil

Of course this relies on a combination of both which would probably lead me to add these together, meaning if Canadian cities had both the amount of track and pop of NYC...our riderships on rail would look like...

Montreal - 10.5million riders/day
Toronto - 10.5million riders/day
Vancouver - 5million riders/day
Calgary - 7million riders/day
Edmonton - 2.7million riders/day

Please correct me if my math is incorrect

Of course there could be fluctuations in the future as to how much a percentage of city residents use transit (as the percentage tends to go up when more track is added), but this is based on facts of today and not contemplating and estimating

[Mikemike]

Your math may be correct, but your model is. You can't take those numbers and add them. The extrapolated track lengths are particularly problematic: if we had 20x the track our ridership/km would be way down, the absolute most we could keep these levels on is about 4-5 times the current track. Which is also meaningless.

New York has some image and safety problems with it's subway, but it also has excellent reach, and the NYC metro area is also served by other mass transit agencies, including the Long island railroad, Metro North, Path, and new jersey transit.

New York's transit system has all this going for it: Incredibly massive central employment districts, geography that creates barriers to easy car commutes, significant tolled infrastructure (tolled bridges) and a long history that means 6 or 7 million people live in neighbourhoods built before the car and therefore have difficult parking.

You can draw some analogies to Montreal, Toronto or Vancouver, which all have some geographical constraints, but none of our cities could have all that going for them.

And consider this: Imagine if Robert Moses had never held power in New York,
that they hadn't bulldozed neighbourhoods to build freeways and expressways, and they had built the second system as it was planned 70 years ago.

[naidoo]

We've been told 100k daily ridership to be reasonable for our expanded LRT system. I took EE's more comprehensive list and calculated daily ridership/km (ranked in order of highest daily ridership/km):


City Daily Ridership Length (km) Ridership/km

New York City (subway) 7,791,700 369 21115.71816
Montreal 987,000 71 13901.40845
Toronto (subway) 942,600 68.3 13800.87848
New York City (PATH subway) 244,300 22.2 11004.5045
Philadelphia (Market subway) 178,715 20.76 8608.622351
Boston 481,300 61 7890.163934
Philadelphia (Broad St subway) 114,816 19.3 5949.015544
Calgary 266,100 48.8 5452.868852
Vancouver 344796 68.7 5018.864629
Edmonton 100,000 20.5 4878.04878
Washington DC 801,400 171 4686.549708
Chicago 640,000 170.8 3747.0726
Houston 45,000 12.1 3719.008264
Toronto (streetcar) 276,000 75 3680
Atlanta 247,200 76.6 3227.154047
Buffalo 23,200 10.3 2252.427184
San Francisco 358,500 167 2146.706587
Minneapolis-St. Paul 32,300 19.8 1631.313131
Detroit 7,500 4.7 1595.744681
Salt Lake City 43,400 30.58 1419.228254
Portland 115,400 84.7 1362.455726
Phoenix 43,509 32 1359.65625
San Diego 107,000 82.2 1301.703163
Charlotte 20,000 15.45 1294.498382
Los Angeles 144,900 127.3 1138.256088
Denver 62,900 56 1123.214286
Saint Louis 61,573 74 832.0675676
Sacramento 49,800 60.21 827.105132
Seattle/Tacoma 20,200 27.8 726.618705
Pittsburgh 24,800 40 620
Cleveland 18,600 31 600

[Shodan]

Bureaucracy impedes LRT, manager says
Boutilier calls for separate group to steer growth

Gordon Kent
Edmonton Journal

Thursday, May 13, 2010

Edmonton needs to create a separate board to run LRT construction and avoid "bureaucracy," transportation general manager Bob Boutilier says.

The $3-billion expansion of the system is approved to NAIT, the west end and Mill Woods. For those projects to be completed in time for the proposed Expo 2017, Boutilier said Wednesday procedures must become more efficient...

[email protected]
© Edmonton Journal 2010

Copyright © 2010 CanWest Interactive, a division of CanWest MediaWorks Publications, Inc.. All rights reserved.
CanWest Interactive, a division of CanWest MediaWorks Publications, Inc.. All rights reserved.

http://www2.canada.com/components/print.aspx?id=9deea585-830b-4f25-84f0-f5fa662bc93b&sponsor=

[ue]

Green=High Floor
Orange=Low Floor

LRT in 2010

hosted at flickr.com

LRT in 2017. NAIT line complete, WLRT/MWLRT complete.

hosted at flickr.com

LRT in 2030. NAIT line starts to expand on redeveloping YXD and Whyte Ave/Sherwood Park line made happen. LRT to Gorman, Heritage Valley, and Evergreen.

hosted at flickr.com

LRT in 2040. LRT out to St. Albert in high floor, LRT out to YEG in high floor, MW line low floor extended down Ellerslie to Heritage Valley to connect to the YEG. LRT station added between Stadium and Churchill at 95/96 St.

hosted at flickr.com

LRT in 2050. LRT extended in Sherwood Park, South Campus splits off into two lines, one that currently exists to CP, another that goes out to Terwillegar. As well, 97 st LRT is built to service the northside communities between the NW and NE which were already served.

hosted at flickr.com

Beyond this?
-LRT to Ft Saskatchewan
-WLRT extension to Enoch
-LRT down Whitemud from MW to W Edmonton
-more stations on existing lines between existing stations
-LRT to Beaumont
-LRT down 23 Ave
-LRT down 34 ave
-LRT down 137 ave
-LRT down 118 Ave
-original 87 Ave LRT from Uni to West end
-extensions in St Alb
-LRT to Spruce Grove
-extension of Terwillegar line to Windermere
-LRT down Capilano/75 st
-LRT down 167 ave
-LRT down 17 St
-LRT down 170 St
-LRT to Devon

?

[Coldrsx]

What about in 2100?

[TimB09]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

What about in 2100?

LRT to Red Deer!

[canucklehead2]

Also in LRT news this morning...
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/edmonton/story/2010/05/14/edmonton-lrt-fire.html#socialcomments-submit

My friend Garret who writes for The Sun was on the train when it happened and he said it was absolutely frightening... I can relate... I was on one of the older LRT cars 2 years ago (eerily enough this week) when a car caught fire at Coliseum station. Everyone got out before it got really bad but the driver really didn't warn anybody to get out and only seemed to notice a problem after everyone was bailing from the train...

FYI, here's his short form version of the story...
http://www.edmontonsun.com/news/edmonton/2010/05/14/13948326.html

[ue]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

What about in 2100?

Why don't you do that? Past 2050, it's anyones guess. I think the most important lines would be built by then as evident by my maps. All corners of the city would have LRT along with our largest suburban municipalities. Major urban destinations would be in it, major attractions, neighbourhoods, shopping centres, education centres, hospitals, etc. I'd like to say that if you lived near the LRT in 2050 you could get most things and most places just by using it.

[dancinb]

With street level LRT, does this mean every crossing is going to have flashing lights and noisy bells? How does this work in other cities?

[bulliver]

^ That's how it is in Edmonton, including the crossing gates.

[dancinb]

Sorry - I should have been more specific. I was more concerned with LRT through residential areas like Stony Plain road between 149 and 124 streets and through downtown. Seems to me all you'll be hearing is crossing bells all day during rush hours. My question is how frequent are these crossings going to be along the ROW?

[Shodan]

Transit buses lagging in hybrid upgrades: report

By Journal Staff, Edmonton Journal
May 17, 2010 8:31 AM

EDMONTON - A report recommending hybrid technology as a way to make the city vehicle fleet more sustainable is a step in the right direction, but the transit buses will have to be addressed at some point, Coun. Don Iveson says.

"The big thing not on the table is aggressively pursuing hybrid technology for the transit fleet," Iveson said Sunday...

© Copyright (c) The Edmonton Journal
http://www.edmontonjournal.com/technolog...ybrid+upgrades+report/3036739/story.html

[240glt]

Originally Posted by dancinb

Sorry - I should have been more specific. I was more concerned with LRT through residential areas like Stony Plain road between 149 and 124 streets and through downtown. Seems to me all you'll be hearing is crossing bells all day during rush hours. My question is how frequent are these crossings going to be along the ROW?

It;s how it is wherever the LRT crosses a street on the NE line. @ 82st & 112th nearby residents get a double whammy from the two crossings.

[dancinb]

Yes, I know that - I live right there. But downtown there's a street crossing every block. Are there going to be bells every block? Are there going to be bells at the major crossings only (at 149st, 142st, 124st, etc)?

[rapid_business]

/\ Well, a lot of streets will be turned into RIRO (right-in, right-outs) so you won't be able to cut across the tracks. I suspect this will be the case for most non-arterial streets.