Millennium Line - Broadway Extension: Planning & Pre-Construction

[punface]

Originally Posted by mr.x

Was the guy that poorly behaved named Mel? (i forgot his last name) He tried to run for MLA against Gordon Campbell as part of the NDP in the last election and he was quite adamant about being against SkyTrain and pro-LRT.

That's the guy, yes. His behavior was bad when he interrupted Translink's presentation to our discussion group, but to be fair to him, there were a number of other people who behaved worse, especially at the start of the meeting.

Google tells me his full name is Mel Lehan ("The Mayor of Kitsilano"). He has been quoted in a lot of the free local papers on this issue. Mental Note: Google before you vote.

He was also organizing a meeting at the same location at the end of the month to push for streetcars. I don't think we have to worry about him having any success with the local residents, unless his true goal is to block anything getting built at all.

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by punface

That's the guy, yes. His behavior was bad when he interrupted Translink's presentation to our discussion group, but to be fair to him, there were a number of other people who behaved worse, especially at the start of the meeting.

Google tells me his full name is Mel Lehan ("The Mayor of Kitsilano"). He has been quoted in a lot of the free local papers on this issue. Mental Note: Google before you vote.

He was also organizing a meeting at the same location at the end of the month to push for streetcars. I don't think we have to worry about him having any success with the local residents, unless his true goal is to block anything getting built at all.

Have we discovered Zwei's real-world off-line identity?

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by jsbertram

Have we discovered Zwei's real-world off-line identity?

Check the guys on street corners with sandwich boards ranting about whatever.

[cabotp]

Originally Posted by awvan

In some respects I'm glad so many of the locals are against streetcar/LRT. It really is a poor idea for the line that would create such a mess of the roads out there with very little time-savings/benefit. If I can't have Skytrain to UBC, I'd rather have Skytrain to Arbutus with the B-Line continuing from there, hopefully with the eventual completion to UBC at a later date. Streetcar/LRT is a half measure and shouldn't be implemented in any fashion on this route, especially as a temporary fix.

In other news, I heard some crazy nimbies on CKNW this morning saying that the line should go down King Ed or 41st instead, not Broadway. I don't understand how people are so clueless.

Hey sytrain down 41st. Now that would be a dream for me

Maybe that is what I need to do convince them that skytrain half a block from my house is needed.

I'm only joking but it sure would be nice

[mr.x]

I can only hope the big picture prevails, small-minded and short-sighted thinking has no place in this day and age. Dream big, Vancouver.

[CLC]

Thanks SSP member(s) for the workshop report.

It would be fun if indeed a sizable portion of Point Grey residents hold opposing view against those merchants (http://www.wbba.ca/) with regards to surface "trams" option. i don't blame those residents for being small-minded as they almost never find the need to use the skytrain system in its current routes; and they are certainly not stupid (unlike Zwei), they see in their own eyes how the frequent 99-b has already clogged up the road space, and the permanent trams will certainly make thing worse.

The best option for NIMBY residents is still skytrain but probably to have no stations between Macdonald and UBC (so they don't feel anything!). They can still use the #9 trolley, but with fewer frequency.

[CLC]

Originally Posted by jsbertram

Have we discovered Zwei's real-world off-line identity?

Maybe someone does. Zwei sounds like he is receiving some "threats"???
http://railforthevalley.wordpress.com/20...-2-questions-answers-about-lrt/#comments

[bulliver]

^ From that linked blog:

Q: Is a subway safer than LRT?
A: No, subways tend to have a higher death rate than light rail, the SkyTrain metro system’s annual death rate is about 2 to 3 times higher than Calgary’s C-Train.

What a ridiculous contention. Sky train has about 2-3 times the stations, and greater Van has about 2-3 times the population as Calgary/C-Train. Guess the death rate is about the same then....

I'd be interested to know how many of these deaths were caused by accidents, and how many by people throwing themselves on the track.

Pure common sense would dictate an underground or elevated line would have less collisions/accidents than a surface line that regularily interfaces with traffic and pedestrians.

[WarrenC12]

His "Q&A" posts are ridiculous jokes.

[teriyaki]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

His "Q&A" posts are ridiculous jokes.

+1. I just read some of the stuff on that ludicrous website.

LRT operating at speeds of 110km/h? Is he serious?

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by bulliver

^ From that linked blog:



What a ridiculous contention. Sky train has about 2-3 times the stations, and greater Van has about 2-3 times the population as Calgary/C-Train. Guess the death rate is about the same then....

I'd be interested to know how many of these deaths were caused by accidents, and how many by people throwing themselves on the track.

Pure common sense would dictate an underground or elevated line would have less collisions/accidents than a surface line that regularily interfaces with traffic and pedestrians.

As of the end of 2008, there were 54 deaths on SkyTrain platform tracks. 10 of those were accidental and the rest were suicides, unpreventable deaths.

But do a simple Google search for "C-Train accident" or "C-Train death" and you get countless results.



Possible ways for an accident to occur on SkyTrain:
1) platform suicides, collision with passenger on platform track
2) platform accidents, fall onto tracks -> collision with passenger on track

Possible ways for an accident to occur on C-Train/LRT:
1) platform suicides, collision with passenger on platform track
2) platform accidents, fall onto tracks -> collision with passenger on track
3) track suicides, collision with pedestrian on track
4) train collision with pedestrian/cyclists on track
5) train collision with car on track
6) train-on-train collision




Surely, there have been more than 10 accidental deaths on the C-Train. And with his logic, I wouldn't be surprised if he blamed platform/train deaths from heart attacks and strokes on SkyTrain.



And according to zwei, Seattle has a "metro lobby".

[wrenegade]

Imagine LRT doing 110km/h down Broadway between Cambie and Granville. Even if the lights were timed, that — would be hilarious! (and so so dangerous).

[CLC]

Originally Posted by mr.x

Possible ways for an accident to occur on C-Train/LRT:
1) platform suicides, collision with passenger on platform track
2) platform accidents, fall onto tracks -> collision with passenger on track
3) track suicides, collision with pedestrian on track
4) train collision with pedestrian/cyclists on track
5) train collision with car on track

Mr.x, you forgot the following type of collision common in frequent LRT system:
San Francisco
Hong Kong

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by CLC

Mr.x, you forgot the following type of collision common in frequent LRT system:
San Francisco
Hong Kong

Would it hurt to have some description of the context of these photos?
or links to their news articles?
are these train v. train?
train v. tank?
train v. truck?
train v. elephant?


Having just a picture of an accident is almost as bad as Zwei spouting numbers without a link to their source and context.

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by awvan

Imagine LRT doing 110km/h down Broadway between Cambie and Granville. Even if the lights were timed, that — would be hilarious! (and so so dangerous).

Last time I read about anything doing 110K on Broadway was when a driver in a 3 am car race down Broadway T-boned another car driving south on Granville. I think both drivers died, and one of the wrecks ended up in the construction pit of the new School Board site (where Chapters is now). I don't think they ever found the other driver that was in the race.

[CLC]

^ apologize for the lazyness...
Photo1 San Francisco: a Muni light rail "rear-ended" another at West Portal Station, 47 sent to hospitals, 2009/07/18
Photo2 Hong Kong: a MTR light rail "rear-ended" another at Nai Wai Stop, 12 sent to hospitals, 2009/05/06

[BCPhil]

Skytrain is one of the only agencies where people focus on the death toll. I think it's just because people are trying to keep score, seeing how many people are killed by computers. It's just a FUD tactic. Other agencies, like C-Train, it's almost impossible to find accident or death rates because people just shrug it all off as human error, what can you do eh? But here it's the computers fault. "If only there was a person at the controls, this wouldn't happen." It's just unfounded fear of automation. And as you see people always cite the running total of deaths, not just the annual rate, as running count of victims claimed by the computer.

Montreal had a rash of suicides on their metro, until they ran a major public awareness campaign pointing out the fact (real or not) that only 1 in 3 die right away. The rest get dragged or thrown, and die minutes or hours later at the scene or in hospital, usually in excruciating pain, and many more actually survive with life altering disabilities.

A lot of people took notice and suicide rates dropped. 2/3 odds of a super painful painful death or recovery are a bit of a turn off for someone looking for a quick way out.

If here they announced and ran stories and advertised that people survive the moment of impact, I bet you would see a lot less people jumping on the tracks.

[huenthar]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

His "Q&A" posts are ridiculous jokes.

Yeah, according to his thinking, LRTs have the advantage over any other system in speed, safety, capacity, cost, reliability, flexibility, accessibility, aesthetics... the fanatic is incapable of conceding that there is even one single possible advantage of underground metro over LRT a wonder that any metro in the world exists, given its apparently panoptic disadvantages

[jsbertram]

The Census of Fatal Occupational Injuries reported 207 deaths in the ten years 1992-2001 related to elevators and escalators, an average of nearly 21 per year, or almost 2 people every month.

Of these, 61 of those killed were elevator passengers entering or riding in elevators while at work, and there were also 5 deaths due to escalators during this period.

With such a shocking and appalling death toll by these automated machines, its time we brought back the Elevator Girl so there would be a person operating these death traps instead of soul-less computers. By having a person in control of these machines, there would be an immediate reduction of the deaths and injuries caused by these machines to nearly zero.

/ZweiSimulationMode Off

[jsbertram]

A google search found this:

SkyTrain's Mounting Death Toll
http://thetyee.ca/News/2008/11/18/SkyTrain/

"According to British Columbia Coroners Service statistics obtained by 24 Hours Vancouver via freedom of information, at least 54 people have died on SkyTrain tracks and platforms. Ten deaths were accidental. The rest were suicides."

The side-story is a little more detailed and graphic, but I'd trust the BC Coroners Service statistics instead of Zwei's "plucked from the air" unattributed numbers.