[Halifax] Nova Centre | 65-58-58 m | 16-15-14 fl | Completed

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by cormiermax

I agree with you, I don't think its the right location either. Something like Canada place would be perfect, right on the water. Although I'm not sure were it would go on the water front.

If the grain elevator system wasn't extending along the dock near Halterm, I'd say right there (provided that there was freequent (and I don't mean every 30 minutes) bus service) and maybe if there was some sort of LRT, train or subway system that stoped at the train station.

[DigitalNinja]

That's the problem with putting it anywhere else. Public transit sucks in most of Halifax besides the downtown area and the link buses. Shouldn't take as long as it does to get to bayers lake. (Like over an hour and a half to 2 hours from Sackville).

[Keith P.]

A convention center needs to be integrated with/adjacent to hotels and restos. Ain't none of those near the grain elevators. If you don't like the proposed site, the only alternative would be the Cogswell interchange which was already rejected for some reason. Or maybe they could build it on top of the sewage treatment plant. At least it would be close to the Casino.

[macgregor]

The waterfront warehouse / block M site is about the same size or bigger then the herald / midtown site. Add a water view and you could have an amazing convention center mixed development. There are less bars/restaurants nearby, but that's not a deal-breaker.

[-Harlington-]

on top of the sewage treatment wouldn't be to bad if they found a way so it didn't stink,
and dare i suggest switch places with the law courts?

[sdm]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

A convention center needs to be integrated with/adjacent to hotels and restos. Ain't none of those near the grain elevators. If you don't like the proposed site, the only alternative would be the Cogswell interchange which was already rejected for some reason. Or maybe they could build it on top of the sewage treatment plant. At least it would be close to the Casino.

and no really true reason was given as to why the cogswell street lands where not selected.

[Empire]

Originally Posted by macgregor

The waterfront warehouse / block M site is about the same size or bigger then the herald / midtown site. Add a water view and you could have an amazing convention center mixed development. There are less bars/restaurants nearby, but that's not a deal-breaker.

Queen`s Wharf is also an excellent site for a convention centre. It`s too bad there wasn't more emphasis put on a waterfront location in the bid comp.

[sdm]

Originally Posted by Empire

Queen`s Wharf is also an excellent site for a convention centre. It`s too bad there wasn't more emphasis put on a waterfront location in the bid comp.

That and the pier 21 area would have been an ideal choice, albeit the transit and distance issues would need to be addressed.

[halifaxboyns]

I think the problem with along the waterfront - you run into the issue of viewplanes. Obviously with the site they seem to have selected; they can manipulate the tower locations to avoid the viewplanes thus getting a tall height.

The same would be the case if it was down at pier 21 because I think that area isn't just covered by 1 viewplane, but 2 or 3. So you'd actually have to take the most intense viewplane - which would probably keep you to a very low height or maybe as tall as the westin? Which isn't quite as high as the proposed tower heights (or am I wrong)?

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by halifaxboyns

I think the problem with along the waterfront - you run into the issue of viewplanes. Obviously with the site they seem to have selected; they can manipulate the tower locations to avoid the viewplanes thus getting a tall height.

The same would be the case if it was down at pier 21 because I think that area isn't just covered by 1 viewplane, but 2 or 3. So you'd actually have to take the most intense viewplane - which would probably keep you to a very low height or maybe as tall as the westin? Which isn't quite as high as the proposed tower heights (or am I wrong)?

I think that if the convention centre doesn't go ahead at the current site then most likely the HRM won't see another convention centre proposal in the near future. My reasoning is that if it doesn't go ahead, it will be due to lack of funding from the provincial NDP (the new deadline to decide is in July sometime).

The convention centre could always be a stand alone building if built in a different location. I haven't been able to find the viewplanes map and the Pier 21 area is outside the HRMbyDesign maps, so I assume that you are correct. However, I don't believe that it is a choice between the current site or a better site, but instead it is either the current site or nowhere for the next 10 years. (This will be decided by the NDP government).

I don't believe that a large convention centre will be built by private investors - at best we might see smaller convention/meeting centres at locations like King's Wharf. Personally, I feel that not having a large modern convention centre will hurt the HRM. It is not only the rental rates that can be recovered by a convention centre but also the 10% PST (to be included in the 15% HST) that will be charged on hotel rooms and restaurant income that will be lost. When newspapers print facts on such centres they often overlook this PST tax income and only focus on the convention rental rates.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

Personally, I feel that not having a large modern convention centre will hurt the HRM.

This is the classic pattern for Halifax and the Maritimes in general - make excuses instead of investing in proper infrastructure and then sit back and watch as other areas pull a little farther ahead.

At this point there really is nothing serious holding Halifax or the downtown back aside from poor management.

[terrynorthend]

CBC news is reporting this morning that the Dexter Gov. is set to support this project, citing four separate reports. They are to make a formal announcement this morning, according to CBC.

[fenwick16]

Halifax convention centre studies coming
Last Updated: Friday, April 30, 2010 | 7:44 AM AT Comments1Recommend0
CBC News
The Nova Centre would be three times the size of the nearby World Trade and Convention Centre. This drawing is from May 2009.The Nova Centre would be three times the size of the nearby World Trade and Convention Centre. This drawing is from May 2009. (Rank Group)

The Nova Scotia government is ready to release four studies that will help it decide whether to back a controversial convention centre for downtown Halifax.

The NDP has been slow to back the development, a convention centre and hotel complex on Argyle Street that could cost $300 million. Though supporters argue the centre is needed, critics say it's unnecessary and too expensive.

Sources tell CBC News that the government will release four reports on Friday, but a final decision is still months away.

One report addresses current convention centre needs in the city, while the others deal with future business potential, how the centre would be financed and run, and the economic impact of a new centre.

Last month, Infrastructure Renewal Minister Bill Estabrooks said he needed time to review the arguments for and against the development.

The Hotel Association of Nova Scotia supports the project, saying the city has lost 70 conferences over the years because the World Trade and Convention Centre is too small.

The Coalition to Save the View from Citadel Hill, however, claims that attendance has been falling at Canadian convention centres despite the addition of exhibit space.

Estabrooks said the federal government hadn't committed any money to the project.

Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/nova-scotia/sto...html#socialcomments-submit#ixzz0maBntel3

This was on the CBC online news. This doesn't mention anything about supporting the project though. Hopefully the four studies are positive.

[beyeas]

Like I said above... I am all for a new convention centre, but I just think it is unfortunate that this is where it was selected to go, when I think that this land could be put to better use in terms of revitalizing downtown and getting far more people living in the core (ala the discussion in the general thread about Reznik's comments).

The convention centre that I am going to next week is not in the downtown core, nor is it surrounded by hotels. What it does have though is very good transit links, which enable the thousands of people attending to stay at a variety of hotel levels and take rapid accessible transit to the convention centre. There are many many examples of this at convention centres I have attended around the world.

In the case of Halifax, where they wanted to integrate this with an office tower etc, I truly think that this was a missed opportunity to co-fund the convention centre with getting rid of Cogswell. As someone said above, there was no good reason given why one site was selected over the other, as it was all done behind closed doors. This is a missed opportunity, as we could have gotten a new convention centre, rid of Cogswell, and had two blocks of downtown new residential/retail within the core.

[sdm]

Originally Posted by beyeas

Like I said above... I am all for a new convention centre, but I just think it is unfortunate that this is where it was selected to go, when I think that this land could be put to better use in terms of revitalizing downtown and getting far more people living in the core (ala the discussion in the general thread about Reznik's comments).

The convention centre that I am going to next week is not in the downtown core, nor is it surrounded by hotels. What it does have though is very good transit links, which enable the thousands of people attending to stay at a variety of hotel levels and take rapid accessible transit to the convention centre. There are many many examples of this at convention centres I have attended around the world.

In the case of Halifax, where they wanted to integrate this with an office tower etc, I truly think that this was a missed opportunity to co-fund the convention centre with getting rid of Cogswell. As someone said above, there was no good reason given why one site was selected over the other, as it was all done behind closed doors. This is a missed opportunity, as we could have gotten a new convention centre, rid of Cogswell, and had two blocks of downtown new residential/retail within the core.

[fenwick16]

Many convention centres are in the downtown core or very close; examples of ones that I have been to that are near the downtown core - Baltimore, Indianapolis, San Francisco, Toronto. I have been to others but I don't remember well enough to say how close they were to the downtown core. It seems like ones in Las Vegas, San Antonio, Dallas were also near the downtown core since that is where I stayed (near the downtown). However, one thing to note is that many of these cities have more than one large convention centre. Toronto has two that I have been to - one downtown and one near the airport.

One reason for having a convention centre is to get people to come to the city and impress them with the city. Having a convention centre on the outskirts of the city won't accomplish that, in fact it might do the opposite. If Halifax had a good rapid transit system then maybe they could stay in the city and travel back and forth.

I think that the reason why the Cogswell interchange has not been torn down is the cost. It would likely cost $20 - 30 million to tear it down and restore the street grid. This would have to be factored into the convention centre cost.

[beyeas]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

Many convention centres are in the downtown core or very close; examples of ones that I have been to that are near the downtown core - Baltimore, Indianapolis, San Francisco, Toronto. I have been to others but I don't remember well enough to say how close they were to the downtown core. It seems like ones in Las Vegas, San Antonio, Dallas were also near the downtown core since that is where I stayed (near the downtown). However, one thing to note is that many of these cities have more than one large convention centre. Toronto has two that I have been to - one downtown and one near the airport.

One reason for having a convention centre is to get people to come to the city and impress them with the city. Having a convention centre on the outskirts of the city won't accomplish that, in fact it might do the opposite. If Halifax had a good rapid transit system then maybe they could stay in the city and travel back and forth.

I think that the reason why the Cogswell interchange has not been torn down is the cost. It would likely cost $20 - 30 million to tear it down and restore the street grid. This would have to be factored into the convention centre cost.

Oh I am not arguing that some are built in the downtown, I just meant that they don't HAVE to be. Having said that, my argument was for the Cogswell... and specifically for the reason that you cited of the teardown being offset with the building costs. That way we could have gotten the centre, rid of the interchange, and still been left with two blocks of residential/retail. The convention centre alone will go some distance to revitalizing downtown, but what I stated above would have done even more.

[reddog794]

That is just as much reason to do it. With a 400 million project like this, it would be the most opportune to throw another 50 mill from the NS gov, and make that area awesome.

Shoot, the foot of Cogswell could become a plaza style intersection. Like times square and Younge/Dundas, we would have Cogswell Square.

Just my 2 cents on that issue. I'm all for this project though, as that's the horse we have in the race.

[Phalanx]

My nitpick with putting it at the Cogswell site is that convention centres tend to have a large footprint, and be relatively low to the ground, and this relatively small area is the one place downtown where tall buildings are (sorry - will be... someday) allowed.

[beyeas]

Originally Posted by Phalanx

My nitpick with putting it at the Cogswell site is that convention centres tend to have a large footprint, and be relatively low to the ground, and this relatively small area is the one place downtown where tall buildings are (sorry - will be... someday) allowed.

True... it is definitly not a perfect sight for that reason.
Although at that point why not combine with a couple of large towers... basically like it is now except even taller and done as office space? Just throwing out ideas, not that it matters though since this is not an option on the table. If push came to shove I do support the current convention centre plan, it is just that I don't think it is ideal if we had it to do over again.