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  #841  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2010, 6:09 PM
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These are exactly the types of events that councillors should be going to. It is a good opportunity for councillors to find out what is happening in other cities and a chance to promote Halifax.
Indeed, I think they all should go and take the HT with them.
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Technically, it doesn't block a harbour view. However, no matter what is built anywhere in Halifax then there will be opposition .
The HT is using the fact that it blocks a view (that will be blocked by the twisted sisters anyway) to their advantage by leading people to believe the convention centre is bending/breaking planning policy by blocking harbour views. It's a well used strategy by HT.
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Last edited by Empire; Apr 10, 2010 at 6:19 PM.
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  #842  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2010, 8:40 PM
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Indeed, I think they all should go and take the HT with them.


The HT is using the fact that it blocks a view (that will be blocked by the twisted sisters anyway) to their advantage by leading people to believe the convention centre is bending/breaking planning policy by blocking harbour views. It's a well used strategy by HT.
These are the types of tactics that annoy me. It certainly shows me that they aren't doing what is best for the majority when they need to twist the truth around in order to get their way. The problem with the HT is that they mostly go unopposed since people do not organize anti-HT groups.
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  #843  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2010, 9:04 PM
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It's true that the viewplanes encourage bizarre site plans for developments. They're really not very well-crafted and it seems like a terrible tradeoff to me to have poor building layouts all through the downtown simply to maintain some views of the Citadel. It's nice to protect views but they should have taken a more thoughtful, holistic approach rather than just drawing a bunch of lines on a map.

I agree that the chosen site is not a very good one. The worst part is that there was already a development planned for this site and it was delayed for the convention centre. A redevelopment of the Cogswell lands would have been much better, and another alternative would be something on the wharf by Purdy's or maybe the Waterfront Warehouse site.

At this point, however, I'd prefer for things simply to move forward. It's the delays that are killing the downtown more than anything. I'd rather have a real convention centre on Argyle Street than an imaginary one in a perfect location.
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  #844  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2010, 9:47 PM
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At this point, however, I'd prefer for things simply to move forward. It's the delays that are killing the downtown more than anything. I'd rather have a real convention centre on Argyle Street than an imaginary one in a perfect location.
Well said.
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  #845  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2010, 2:50 PM
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Does anyone have information on the square footage facts for the new convention centre proposal? In the original call for proposals the request was for a minimum of 150,000 square feet of exhibit space and meeting space (not including the privately financed hotel and office portions).

For it to be worth $100 million dollars then I think it should be in the 150,000 - 200,000 square foot rage. However, I have heard numbers of 120,000 square feet being mentioned. The new Library is around 110,000 square feet and the cost is projected to be in the $55 million vicinity.
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  #846  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2010, 10:31 PM
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Does anyone have information on the square footage facts for the new convention centre proposal? In the original call for proposals the request was for a minimum of 150,000 square feet of exhibit space and meeting space (not including the privately financed hotel and office portions).

For it to be worth $100 million dollars then I think it should be in the 150,000 - 200,000 square foot rage. However, I have heard numbers of 120,000 square feet being mentioned. The new Library is around 110,000 square feet and the cost is projected to be in the $55 million vicinity.
120,000 - 150,000 is the number.
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  #847  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2010, 12:39 AM
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Again, not an apples-to-apples comparison since cost per square foot varies so much between different types of buildings. Furthermore, the funding isn't in place for the convention centre and I wouldn't be surprised if future plans looked pretty different from the preliminary renderings.

Not really sure what other cities have and what an appropriate size would be. Apparently the Winnipeg convention centre is also around 150,000 square feet? Wikipedia says Ottawa's new convention centre is $170M for 192,000 square feet. Halifax could probably support a ballpark level of business of those cities (somewhat less than Ottawa, but not orders of magnitude), particularly if it has by far the nicest facilities in Atlantic Canada and if the space is flexible and useful for lots of different types of events.
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  #848  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2010, 12:49 AM
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Halifax could probably support a ballpark level of business of those cities (somewhat less than Ottawa, but not orders of magnitude), particularly if it has by far the nicest facilities in Atlantic Canada and if the space is flexible and useful for lots of different types of events.
This is my feeling also.

People from Ontario will want to attend conventions in Halifax since it close enough to be easily accessible by plane but far enough to be a "get away" as opposed to Ottawa which to Torontonians will not even be leaving the province of Ontario. There are many attractions in the Halifax area including scenic areas of Nova Scotia. On top of that, there are activities like whale watching, and sailing on the Bluenose, that cannot be done in Ottawa and Niagara Falls. PS: Ottawa and Niagara Falls have attractions that are unique to those municipalities.

Last edited by fenwick16; Apr 12, 2010 at 2:55 AM.
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  #849  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2010, 3:01 PM
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Way past its best-before date

Industry expert: Time to replace Halifax convention centre


By BILL POWER

Business Reporter
TALK ABOUT trash talk.

The 26-year-old World Trade and Convention Centre in Halifax was sharply criticized Thursday by an industry expert who said the name of the complex is at the top of a long list of its shor tcomings.

“The first thing they should do is change the name from convention centre to confer ence centre, because this is not really a con vention centre," said Michael Hughes of Tradeshow Week magazine, a publication widely regarded as the voice of the industry in the United States and Canada.

“As far as the convention industry is con cerned, Halifax is hardly in the game," he said in an interview.

The industry researcher and writer did not have to worry about bashing the down town complex. Officials at the World Trade and Convention Centre are aggressively lobbying for a replacement and talk often about its deficiencies.

Hughes turned both thumbs down when asked how the trade centre holds up to com plexes in similar markets. He said the Hali fax facility lacks assorted basic amenities required by the industry, such as proper ex hibition space and appropriate loading docks.

Even as a conference centre the facility falls short, he said.

“This place was out of date 10 years ago. It very much is in line with conference centres designed in the ’70s and ’80s, which cannot hold their own against increasing competi tion from communities that have recently built new facilities or have major expansions and reno vations on the drawing board," he said.

Hughes was pulled into the trade centre debate in Nova Sco tia when the opposition group Save the View used numbers from Tradeshow Week to back their assertion the convention centre industry is on the decline in North America. Hughes later disputed the way those numbers were used to support arguments against a new centre for Halifax. The Save the View organiza tion wants the Dexter govern ment to nix a proposed $100-million commitment to a convention centre to be included in a major development pro posed for the former Chronicle Herald site on Argyle Street.

Hughes admitted he was not up to date on the latest develop ments relating to the $400-million Nova Centre Global Trade and Finance proposal put forward by Joe Ramia’s Rank Inc.

The developer is supposed to have a final plan and cost esti mate ready for the province by July 19.

“I don’t know all the particu lars, but it is exciting to see such a robust debate underway. It’s part of the process."

Hughes was in town to talk about industry trends at the invi tation of the Atlantic chapter of Meeting Professionals Interna tional.

After speaking to the group, he gave the proposed Nova Centre two thumbs up. He was especial ly keen about the inclusion of a hotel in the plan.

“Many big convention centres are located in the outskirts of North American urban centres and are unable to provide the sort of convergence of visitors and community that you have the potential to achieve here," he said.

“This has been the key to the success of Las Vegas as the top exhibition and convention cen tre destination in North Ameri ca. Out-of-town participants at these events want to be where the action is. They do not want to jump into a cab to go to another part of the city at the end of the day."

Hughes said decision makers in Nova Scotia should consider the successful track record of the existing trade centre and look at the long-term benefits of com bining some public money with private money for a successful venture in a development-hun gry downtown.

“The hotel will be successful because it is part of the new con vention centre. The new conven tion centre will be successful be cause it has the hotel to include in its list of amenities."

There are critics of the provin cial government’s possible $100-million commitment to the Nova Centre project.

However, attendees at the gath ering of Meeting Professionals International were talking only about potential benefits for Nova Scotia of a state-of-the-art con vention centre in the heart of Ha lif ax.

“If we get the word tomorrow this project is a go, we’ll have a list of 206 organizations that could potentially come here," said Pat Lyell, with Destination Halif ax.

“We cannot try to sell to these people at this time because we have nothing to sell them."

Critics insist the convention and trade show industry is on the decline and the government should pull out of the project.

([email protected])
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  #850  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2010, 6:56 PM
halifaxboyns halifaxboyns is offline
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Originally Posted by Jonovision View Post
Way past its best-before date

Industry expert: Time to replace Halifax convention centre


By BILL POWER

Business Reporter
TALK ABOUT trash talk.

The 26-year-old World Trade and Convention Centre in Halifax was sharply criticized Thursday by an industry expert who said the name of the complex is at the top of a long list of its shor tcomings.

“The first thing they should do is change the name from convention centre to confer ence centre, because this is not really a con vention centre," said Michael Hughes of Tradeshow Week magazine, a publication widely regarded as the voice of the industry in the United States and Canada.

“As far as the convention industry is con cerned, Halifax is hardly in the game," he said in an interview.

The industry researcher and writer did not have to worry about bashing the down town complex. Officials at the World Trade and Convention Centre are aggressively lobbying for a replacement and talk often about its deficiencies.

Hughes turned both thumbs down when asked how the trade centre holds up to com plexes in similar markets. He said the Hali fax facility lacks assorted basic amenities required by the industry, such as proper ex hibition space and appropriate loading docks.

Even as a conference centre the facility falls short, he said.

“This place was out of date 10 years ago. It very much is in line with conference centres designed in the ’70s and ’80s, which cannot hold their own against increasing competi tion from communities that have recently built new facilities or have major expansions and reno vations on the drawing board," he said.

Hughes was pulled into the trade centre debate in Nova Sco tia when the opposition group Save the View used numbers from Tradeshow Week to back their assertion the convention centre industry is on the decline in North America. Hughes later disputed the way those numbers were used to support arguments against a new centre for Halifax. The Save the View organiza tion wants the Dexter govern ment to nix a proposed $100-million commitment to a convention centre to be included in a major development pro posed for the former Chronicle Herald site on Argyle Street.

Hughes admitted he was not up to date on the latest develop ments relating to the $400-million Nova Centre Global Trade and Finance proposal put forward by Joe Ramia’s Rank Inc.

The developer is supposed to have a final plan and cost esti mate ready for the province by July 19.

“I don’t know all the particu lars, but it is exciting to see such a robust debate underway. It’s part of the process."

Hughes was in town to talk about industry trends at the invi tation of the Atlantic chapter of Meeting Professionals Interna tional.

After speaking to the group, he gave the proposed Nova Centre two thumbs up. He was especial ly keen about the inclusion of a hotel in the plan.

“Many big convention centres are located in the outskirts of North American urban centres and are unable to provide the sort of convergence of visitors and community that you have the potential to achieve here," he said.

“This has been the key to the success of Las Vegas as the top exhibition and convention cen tre destination in North Ameri ca. Out-of-town participants at these events want to be where the action is. They do not want to jump into a cab to go to another part of the city at the end of the day."

Hughes said decision makers in Nova Scotia should consider the successful track record of the existing trade centre and look at the long-term benefits of com bining some public money with private money for a successful venture in a development-hun gry downtown.

“The hotel will be successful because it is part of the new con vention centre. The new conven tion centre will be successful be cause it has the hotel to include in its list of amenities."

There are critics of the provin cial government’s possible $100-million commitment to the Nova Centre project.

However, attendees at the gath ering of Meeting Professionals International were talking only about potential benefits for Nova Scotia of a state-of-the-art con vention centre in the heart of Ha lif ax.

“If we get the word tomorrow this project is a go, we’ll have a list of 206 organizations that could potentially come here," said Pat Lyell, with Destination Halif ax.

“We cannot try to sell to these people at this time because we have nothing to sell them."

Critics insist the convention and trade show industry is on the decline and the government should pull out of the project.

([email protected])

I just finished reading this article - I think it's wonderful. He did a pretty good job at summing up the real issue and the fact that he came up here to really talk about the stats that save the view are using - and show that they aren't interpreting them correctly - fantastic!
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  #851  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2010, 8:56 PM
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I must admit every time I look at the current design I hate it more and more, I hope a new design comes out before construction and becomes something more like Purdy's Wharf.
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  #852  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2010, 3:09 PM
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Both petitions seem to have stalled - but the support petition is double that of the HT's anti-project petition. I think the coast needs to publish another article lol.
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  #853  
Old Posted Apr 24, 2010, 6:05 PM
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The more things change, the more they stay the same. Look at this article from the provincial NDP leader in 1976:

http://www.gov.ns.ca/nsarm/virtual/newspapers/archives.asp?ID=697&Page=200919338

Almost word for word with the same voices today decrying the need for a new convention center. You' d think that the experience of 34 years would teach us something about giving much credence to these voices that would prefer we spend all our public money on welfare and health care.
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  #854  
Old Posted Apr 24, 2010, 6:56 PM
fenwick16 fenwick16 is offline
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The more things change, the more they stay the same. Look at this article from the provincial NDP leader in 1976:

http://www.gov.ns.ca/nsarm/virtual/newspapers/archives.asp?ID=697&Page=200919338

Almost word for word with the same voices today decrying the need for a new convention center. You' d think that the experience of 34 years would teach us something about giving much credence to these voices that would prefer we spend all our public money on welfare and health care.
Very interesting link. The Metro Centre has turned out to be a big benefit to Nova Scotians. I expect that the Nova Centre will be the same.

This link that you provided has newspapers going back to 1769 ( http://www.gov.ns.ca/nsarm/virtual/newspapers/archives.asp?ID=1 ). Very interesting.
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  #855  
Old Posted Apr 24, 2010, 7:17 PM
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Here's a related article on the sod turning with an interesting picture of the architectural model of the MC, with typical comments from longtime NDPer and supposed economist Mike Bradfield.

http://www.gov.ns.ca/nsarm/virtual/newspapers/archives.asp?ID=701&Page=200919458
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  #856  
Old Posted Apr 24, 2010, 10:15 PM
fenwick16 fenwick16 is offline
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Originally Posted by Keith P. View Post
Here's a related article on the sod turning with an interesting picture of the architectural model of the MC, with typical comments from longtime NDPer and supposed economist Mike Bradfield.

http://www.gov.ns.ca/nsarm/virtual/newspapers/archives.asp?ID=701&Page=200919458
I like the Metro Centre model. This quote sounds like it could be coming from NDP critics right now regarding the Nova Centre. The bad thing regarding the Nova Centre is that the NDP is currently in power.

Source (http://www.gov.ns.ca/nsarm/virtual/newspapers/archives.asp?ID=701&Page=200919458) from May 5 1976 The 4th Estate
Quote:
The most vocal opponents to the Metrocentre plans have been NDP Leader Jeremy Akerman and Halifax economics professor Mike Bradfield.
Akerman claims the construction costs will escalate well beyond the projected $14.5 million and the City of Halifax will be left holding the financial bag when the facility fails to attract expected conventions and exhibitions.

Do you remember seeing an earlier hockey arena proposal for the Shannan Park area in Dartmouth that was illustrated in the Chronicle Herald (around the year 1972). On the picture it had AHL NHL. It was proposed to be 10,000 seats with a roof that could be raised to expand it to 18,000 seats when required. What happened to the big dreams from the 70's?
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  #857  
Old Posted Apr 24, 2010, 10:38 PM
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Originally Posted by fenwick16 View Post
Do you remember seeing an earlier hockey arena proposal for the Shannan Park area in Dartmouth that was illustrated in the Chronicle Herald (around the year 1972). On the picture it had AHL NHL. It was proposed to be 10,000 seats with a roof that could be raised to expand it to 18,000 seats when required. What happened to the big dreams from the 70's?
Ah, yes, the CADAC proposal. It would have been where Highfield Park/Gallery One furniture now sits. Allan Stockall was the proponent. It failed to happen because it was on what was then the fringe of Dartmouth, and the powers that be wanted the new arena in downtown Halifax.

What do you use to copy text from these Flash images?
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  #858  
Old Posted Apr 24, 2010, 10:46 PM
fenwick16 fenwick16 is offline
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What do you use to copy text from these Flash images?
I just opened the flash image and Word program side by side and typed it by hand. If there is an easier way, I am not sure what it is (you would have to copy the image and use character recognition software - which isn't any easier unless it is a lot of text).
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  #859  
Old Posted Apr 29, 2010, 4:36 PM
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So I was sitting in the Wooden Monkey yesterday at lunch staring out the window... I have been on the fence for a while about the Nova Centre, but as I was staring I decided that I think this really is not the place for this. I am NOT saying that I am against a new convention centre, because I am all for that. Just not there. My mind kept swirling over all the cool designs and uses that land could be put to. All the street level retail, more street-side cafes across from the shoe shop, etc. Would love to see something like two slender residential towers (which, yes, I know can't happen under HRMbD) with a base that had at grade retail and a living roof. Or anything. But not this design/centre. I think that the conference centre would be better suited to another location, this area better suited to residential combined with retail and public space, and the office space better left to a project like International Place (which let's face it are more feasible and likely if Nova Centre doesn't happen).

Anyway... I am off to a 6000 person conference at a centre in Europe for a week... I'll let you know what their centre was like and what area of town it was in for comparison, when I get back.
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  #860  
Old Posted Apr 29, 2010, 5:07 PM
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I agree with you, I don't think its the right location either. Something like Canada place would be perfect, right on the water. Although I'm not sure were it would go on the water front.
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