AUSTIN | Projects & Construction II

[mars-man]

Originally Posted by Downtown_Austin

I'll give the design a vote of "highly tolerable"

It certainly will be interesting. Kind of echoes the LBJ Library with its stark shape and use of what I'm guessing is marble? I walk by almost every day and it's been interesting watching it begin to rise. Does anyone have any newer renderings?

I'm especially interested in how the building will interface with Republic Square once construction is complete and that short section of San Antonio Street is permanently closed off.

[ahealy]

haha. I really REALLY like the design. I think it will look quite nice once finished.

[Downtown_Austin]

Originally Posted by mars-man

It certainly will be interesting. Kind of echoes the LBJ Library with its stark shape and use of what I'm guessing is marble? I walk by almost every day and it's been interesting watching it begin to rise. Does anyone have any newer renderings?

I'm especially interested in how the building will interface with Republic Square once construction is complete and that short section of San Antonio Street is permanently closed off.

Indeed, great observation. I've always admired the LBJ Library and part of that is the marble facade. I would love to see marble on the courthouse.

[WAustinResident]

I love the design, I just don't like how its a "dead" block. It will be dead on weekends and at night and with no retail or anything will not add to the neighborhood.

[MichaelB]

Re : courthouse: While I still like the design... I liked it much better before they messed with it. It was more pure... modern. Did not like that "they" changed (what looked like) a textured glass in the center for (what looks like) copper or something. Looks like one of those sell outs to someone who thought it needed to be more "warm and fuzzy". Sigh.

[ahealy]

who knows. I kind of liked the glass as well...but perhaps they wanted it to have some relation with City Hall's copper; which doesn't exactly make me feel warm and fuzzy all over (I like the copper a lot)

[hookem]

I don't think that render helps us know in any way what the courthouse will actually "look like", at least from a street/pedestrian view. So much will depend on the materials, which are not well represented in that pic. Plus a design like that *should* have some very different looks depending on the angle. Notice how asymmetrical it is on the sides? That's entirely opposite of the LBJ library. The views from the corners could look like an entirely different building.

Or it could look awful. I'd say we just don't know at this point...

[OU812]

Originally Posted by Scottolini

Umm, they have come. You do realize Austin's been among this nation's fastest growing cities for decades, right? You do realize that Austin's job market has been among the best in the nation for decades as well, right? Now obviously Houston and Dallas, being so much larger have much more office space, but you mention San Antonio, which as the numbers I posted above show, has substantially less office space than Austin.

hmm took a break from this addiction for awhile. yes i know austin's a fast growing city and has been for the last 20+ years. i was being facetious about that old hippy sentiment of 'don't build it they wont come'. anyone thats lived here for anything length of time knows that it didn't really work. you can't force people to not move here. but i do think it did curb austin's growth somewhat. i have no doubt that if 183 east was a wide freeway w/access roads, that corridor would be filled with development by now. if we had a REAL loop, ie: beltway around the city, it would also be developed. if interstate 35 and mopac was actually 5/6 lanes in each direction, etc. etc. austin would probably be the 3rd largest city. although it's widely believed to overtake san antonio as number 3 within a decade or two anyways. voting down all those roadways DID work a little. but now we all have to suffer for it- because people DID move here, everyone's clogging the roadways, and now we have rampant tolls all over the place. it's like austin's the poster city for toll road building in this country now. i think we have more tollway miles per capita than any mid-sized city in the US. can anyone confirm?

[OU812]

Originally Posted by KevinFromTexas

And every city I've seen that has its downtown surrounded with highways has a dead downtown. Name any city in that situation, and its downtown is but a shadow of its former self.

dallas has a pretty rockin downtown and it's practically surrounded by freeways. high rise condos and apartments in downtown BIG D are all over the place. been there lately? my most recent visit was last year (after about a 9 year hiatus) and i was blown away at how different it is now. many areas are walkable and look rather safe and clean. the DART light rail is certainly a nice addition.

seems like to me downtown's all over the US are having a resurgence as a new livable destination. lots of redevelopment going on. backlash against sprawl and long commutes out into the burbs are happening in many cities- whether they're surrounded by freeways or not. heck even LA's d/t is starting to change.

[Mopacs]

Originally Posted by OU812

it's like austin's the poster city for toll road building in this country now. i think we have more tollway miles per capita than any mid-sized city in the US. can anyone confirm?

I know that Orlando has had a significant number of recently-constructed tollways...including a future/semi-beltway. This in addition to the Florida Turnpike which cuts a SE-NW swath through the metro, and the Beeline expwy.

Both cities are similar in that there is a single, N-S interstate serving the region (I-4), which is often very clogged (esp with all the tourists on the south end).

Factoring in 130, I'm sure both metros are now comparable.



http://www.orlandosal.com/

[KevinFromTexas]

Originally Posted by OU812

dallas has a pretty rockin downtown and it's practically surrounded by freeways. high rise condos and apartments in downtown BIG D are all over the place. been there lately? my most recent visit was last year (after about a 9 year hiatus) and i was blown away at how different it is now. many areas are walkable and look rather safe and clean. the DART light rail is certainly a nice addition.

seems like to me downtown's all over the US are having a resurgence as a new livable destination. lots of redevelopment going on. backlash against sprawl and long commutes out into the burbs are happening in many cities- whether they're surrounded by freeways or not. heck even LA's d/t is starting to change.

It's been a while since I've been to Dallas, but from what I've seen of it on the forum, its downtown is still pretty quiet. There are no doubt a lot of new residential buildings, but the bulk of those are on the other side of Woodall Rogers Freeway in Uptown.

[MichaelB]

Originally Posted by Mopacs

I know that Orlando has had a significant number of recently-constructed tollways...including a future/semi-beltway. This in addition to the Florida Turnpike which cuts a SE-NW swath through the metro, and the Beeline expwy.

Both cities are similar in that there is a single, N-S interstate serving the region (I-4), which is often very clogged (esp with all the tourists on the south end).

Factoring in 130, I'm sure both metros are now comparable.



http://www.orlandosal.com/

Great comparison! Orlando is worse!!! Far worse! I had a meeting in Orlando in Feb. Driving to what would be "Round Rock" was crazy. The amount of toll roads AND the amount of toll booths on those roads made me nuts.

I am guilty, here in Austin, of turning my eye to the effects of toll roads because I live "in the loop" and simply never go to areas that require toll. Works for me. But I get that is myopic. But I will admit, I have felt good about letting the sprawl pay for the sprawl. ( oh, can't wait to hear the response to that! But it's honest).

BUT, if there were in town toll roads I know I would change my tune. In Orlando if felt like .... well, you know that scene in blazing saddles where the toll booth is in the middle of the desert? Like that!

Now that I'm stirring all kinds of dust: Is part of California's financial woes driven by the cost of roads and the general lack of toll roads? I drive between San Diego and LA a lot and between the two cities I've never been on one?

OK... food fight!!!!!!

[hookem]

Originally Posted by OU812

dallas has a pretty rockin downtown and it's practically surrounded by freeways. high rise condos and apartments in downtown BIG D are all over the place. been there lately? my most recent visit was last year (after about a 9 year hiatus) and i was blown away at how different it is now. many areas are walkable and look rather safe and clean. the DART light rail is certainly a nice addition.

It's definitely improved in downtown Big D -- from completely dead to dead with some good spots. But it's still not even close to being somewhere you can just go 4 miles in any direction from downtown and still be in a vibrant, safe neighborhood.

Dallas has had a resurgence in downtown, but that's just like any other city. There is a demand for that now.

Problem is -- and I believe we can all agree on this -- Dallas' downtown was definitely dead before. Why did that happen? My belief is that the highways contributed to that. Cars in general led to sprawl, but when you chop up the central city to make arteries to bring people out to the suburbs, that makes it worse (white flight, etc). And now it's just too far gone, IMO.

Whatever vibrancy is in downtown Dallas is now is part of deliberate movement to put it there. It's got an artificial feel to me. I suppose someday that will go away and it will feel more organic, but it's going to take decades. Maybe if they bury the rest of the freeways like they did central it will help liven up the dead parts.

Gotta give them credit for DART, though. If nothing else, Big D has done rail better than any other city in Texas -- maybe better than any city outside of the 2 coasts and Chicago.

[OU812]

Originally Posted by KevinFromTexas

It's been a while since I've been to Dallas, but from what I've seen of it on the forum, its downtown is still pretty quiet. There are no doubt a lot of new residential buildings, but the bulk of those are on the other side of Woodall Rogers Freeway in Uptown.

downtown dallas is much larger and multi faceted, so of course there are going to be quiet spots. downtown austin has plenty of quiet spots itself.

victory park and the west end are mostly what i visited there and it was definitely bustling. deep ellum used to be really cool but seems dead now. about 12 years ago deep ellum was like a larger segment of 6th st and red river in austin. lots of rock clubs and stuff.

[OU812]

Originally Posted by hookem

It's definitely improved in downtown Big D -- from completely dead to dead with some good spots. But it's still not even close to being somewhere you can just go 4 miles in any direction from downtown and still be in a vibrant, safe neighborhood.

Dallas has had a resurgence in downtown, but that's just like any other city. There is a demand for that now.

Problem is -- and I believe we can all agree on this -- Dallas' downtown was definitely dead before. Why did that happen? My belief is that the highways contributed to that. Cars in general led to sprawl, but when you chop up the central city to make arteries to bring people out to the suburbs, that makes it worse (white flight, etc). And now it's just too far gone, IMO.

Whatever vibrancy is in downtown Dallas is now is part of deliberate movement to put it there. It's got an artificial feel to me. I suppose someday that will go away and it will feel more organic, but it's going to take decades. Maybe if they bury the rest of the freeways like they did central it will help liven up the dead parts.

Gotta give them credit for DART, though. If nothing else, Big D has done rail better than any other city in Texas -- maybe better than any city outside of the 2 coasts and Chicago.

dallas' main area for nightlife used to just be deep ellum, so yeah it's mostly been a recent thing that it now has activity in more areas. but seriously- can you walk 4 miles in any direction in downtown austin and be in a safe vibrant neighborhood? maybe if you don't walk east of i35?

surrounded by freeways or not- many cities are "upgrading" their dirty blighted crime ridden downtowns and making it over into a livable area. condos are going up. apartments are going up. restaurants, retail, etc. etc. it's a trend started probably since the mid 90s? i mean austin didn't have much of a downtown scene except for 6th st and the warehouse district up until around 2000 or so. i moved here in '93 and it's nothing like it is now. i sure was a crazy club hopper back then! good times

yeah DART light rail is the model for which all other cities w/o mass transit should emulate. i also like how it connects to the TRE commuter rail. and just to think they had nothing just some 15 years ago (except for busses).

[OU812]

Originally Posted by Mopacs

I know that Orlando has had a significant number of recently-constructed tollways...including a future/semi-beltway. This in addition to the Florida Turnpike which cuts a SE-NW swath through the metro, and the Beeline expwy.

Both cities are similar in that there is a single, N-S interstate serving the region (I-4), which is often very clogged (esp with all the tourists on the south end).

Factoring in 130, I'm sure both metros are now comparable.



http://www.orlandosal.com/

yikes! that's an atrocious map. i knew florida had a lot of tollways but holy krist! i wonder if orlando is also adopting the policy of adding toll lanes to existing highways??

orlando is a lot like las vegas in that one of it's main cash crops is heavy tourism. so it's almost justified that they have so many tollways, since visitors aren't paying into the tax system there in the way that residents are. austin is not a tourist centric city so it kind of feels like we're getting screwed when we pay all these taxes, THEN they take our existing highways and slap tolls over them. not even considering the less expensive alternative of building overpasses. this is in reference to 183 east, 290 east, 290 west, 71 east, 71 west. ALL highways planned for tollway conversion but could actually have congestion relief if it weren't for the stop lights. which a simple overpass could remedy. at least until funds were available for a full on expressway. yadda yadda

[austin242]

Originally Posted by KevinFromTexas

It's been a while since I've been to Dallas, but from what I've seen of it on the forum, its downtown is still pretty quiet. There are no doubt a lot of new residential buildings, but the bulk of those are on the other side of Woodall Rogers Freeway in Uptown.

The Reason their downtown is so quiet is because there really isn't anything to do downtown. Yah they got some pretty nice stuff like museums and new opera houses, but what they are lacking is street level retail in alot of areas thats their only problem

[MichaelB]

Originally Posted by austin242

The Reason their downtown is so quiet is because there really isn't anything to do downtown. Yah they got some pretty nice stuff like museums and new opera houses, but what they are lacking is street level retail in alot of areas thats their only problem

I was amazed where Dallas build all the new arts buildings. They are isolated from the new residential areas of Downtown. It seems You really can't walk to them from Anywhere except some office buildings. I drove around the new DTC and Opera house and was really amazed at how isolated they are. ABSOLUTELY SPECTACULAR!!!!! But isolated. I know that was the land that they had to work with.... but I hope there will be some form of mass transit to get to them. Anyone know of any plan?

[KevinFromTexas]

Museums and other similar attractions are great no doubt, and they're definitely a destination, but they're not the type of destination that brings people in and keeps them in downtown in the way that really helps downtown. You're going to have a lot of people that come downtown to those museums, park and then walk into the museum and stay there until they leave downtown. Museums and aquariums or stadiums are kind of like theme parks in downtowns. They might have a million visitors a year, but few of those people will ever venture outside of them into the surrounding neighborhood(s). Museums also are not enough to attract residents to downtown since it's not an essential need. They're fun on a rainy weekend I guess if you did live nearby, but they aren't enough to make you decide to move to downtown. The types of things that make great downtown neighborhoods are very much less sexy. Things like grocery stores, everyday needs stores and every type of retail and special goods store you can think of. Those are the things that make a walkable, useful real neighborhood that attracts and keeps people in downtown.

[StoOgE]

Originally Posted by OU812

dallas' main area for nightlife used to just be deep ellum, so yeah it's mostly been a recent thing that it now has activity in more areas. but seriously- can you walk 4 miles in any direction in downtown austin and be in a safe vibrant neighborhood? maybe if you don't walk east of i35?

How long has it been since you went East of 35?

The shitty dance clubs ran all the students to West 6th and out of East 6th... then the Dbags with their Ed Hardy shirts ran everyone who doesn't wear bronzer off of West 6th.. and the most happening places to go in Austin right now are probably Scoot Inn, Long Branch, liberty, Rio Rita, Brixton and Shangrila.

All of them are East of 35 downtown. It's actually become the artsy end of downtown. I've never felt particularly scared of that part of downtown either.