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  #7641  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2010, 7:38 AM
shmakim shmakim is offline
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From Monday's council agenda. 11 million for the land now - what are these people smoking?
omfg.... maybe we can urge them to reveal the differences in appraisal procedures? It's ridiculous to think that the land has almost tripled in value since 2008. What other land in Saskatoon has done that???

Think I need to email Bob Pringle again... maybe get him on the phone this time.....
     
     
  #7642  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2010, 11:28 AM
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Holiday Inn

New hotel called state-of-the-art



By Cassandra Kyle, Saskatchewan News Network; Canwest News Service April 9, 2010 2:04 AM


A $40-million hotel is moving into Saskatoon's accommodation market for a long-term stay, and it's chosen Pacific Avenue as its corner suite.

Eleven storeys high with 179 rooms, Lawrence and Patricia Rychjohn's P.R. Hotels Ltd. has broken ground on a Holiday Inn at Pacific Avenue and 22nd Street, the former site of the Pacific Theatre. The hotel was originally announced in 2007, but the company decided to hold off on construction until the building boom of the late 2000s cooled down.

"It's going to be a state-of-the-art property on what we consider to be the best hotel location in the city," Lawrence Rychjohn said.

Situated across from TCU Place and just up the road from the intersection of Idylwyld Drive and 22nd Street, P.R. Hotels says the project will be the first of its kind downtown since the Radisson Hotel was built in the early 1980s.

Jeff Krivoshen, P.R. Hotels' director of operations, said the company couldn't be happier with the location of the Holiday Inn.

"We're just very excited. It's been a long time in the making and we feel there's no better place that we'd rather be than doing this right here in downtown Saskatoon," he said.

The hotel -- which is expected to be completed in about 18 months -- will include a full-service restaurant and bar, heated parking and penthouse suites featuring 14-foot floor-to-ceiling windows.

P.R. Hotels is also behind the Holiday Inn Express on Idylwyld Drive. The company expects to create 70 to 80 jobs with its new venture. Terry Scaddan, executive director of The Partnership, the downtown area's business improvement district, said the hotel will help house visitors in town for conventions and other events.

"I think it's a good indicator of the general health of downtown and certainly the health of Saskatoon as a destination for conferences and business," he said.

Scaddan explained while parking downtown is always a concern, the loss of the temporary lot at the project site isn't a major worry.

"We're going to lose a surface parking lot that's not particularly pleasurable to look at and replace it with what I think is a rather nice-looking building," he said.

Scaddan said he believes there will be enough business to go around to support the new hotel. The addition of 179 new rooms downtown, he added, won't over-saturate the market.

"I don't think many people build multimillion-dollar buildings on spec. I think they've done their homework," he said.

Tourism Saskatoon's Todd Brandt, president and CEO of the organization, said the city's high hotel occupancy rates will help to keep the project sustainable and profitable.

"I certainly think we're in a position now to be able to absorb new rooms into the marketplace without an adverse effect on the existing properties," Brandt said.

However, he added, with so many new hotels coming on-stream in the next few months, Tourism Saskatoon will have extra work ahead attracting visitors to the city to fill rooms. In addition to the Holiday Inn, a Four Points by Sheraton and a Best Western, plus the Bridgewater Hotel on the 1400 block of 22nd Street, are under construction.

Several other hotel possibilities, including one as part of River Landing, could also come into play during the next few years.

Pacific Avenue will be closed to traffic on the southbound lane of the west side of the street adjacent to the Holiday Inn site through the duration of the hotel's construction, the City of Saskatoon said Thursday.

The sidewalk on 22nd Street westbound adjacent to the construction site will also be closed until the building is complete.

© Copyright (c) The Regina Leader-Post


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  #7643  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2010, 1:16 PM
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Originally Posted by swilley View Post
From Monday's council agenda. 11 million for the land now - what are these people smoking?


The Purchase Price
The purchase price for Parcel "Y' in 2008 was $4.765 million. The price for the lane was
$475,494.21. As instructed by the Executive Committee, the Administration has obtained new
appraisals for Parcel 'Y' from two separate companies.
The appraisal reports completed by Suncorp Valuations Ltd. and Beatty Appraisal and
Consulting Ltd. resulted in an estimate of value for Parcel 'Y" within a narrow range of $98 per
square foot to $110 per square foot. If these appraisals were used, the price average value
between the two appraisals is approximately $104 per square foot which would result in a
purchase price of $11 million. If City Council wished to look at the appraisals in more detail,
your Administration recommends the appraisal report be referred to the Executive Committee for
review and the appraisers be invited to the meeting to discuss their market research and rationale
for the estimates.
I just can't believe it. What shocks me to is the difference between the appraisers is only $12 square foot , was our land so undervalued in 2008 or just overvalued in 2010. How can the price double in 2 years, we are not in Toronto or Vancouver. It will be interesting to see what the Executive Committee comes out with for a final price and the reaction from Lobsinger & Nasser.
     
     
  #7644  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2010, 2:15 PM
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  #7645  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2010, 2:25 PM
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^^ reminds me of the sturdy stone building mixed with the U of S Library... Not much presence for the 22nd street side - It would be nice if they could wrap the entrance around the corner...
     
     
  #7646  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2010, 2:29 PM
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Rather disappointing. The sketchy render that was kicking around a few years back appeared a little funkier. It's a shame underground parking appears to be prohibitively expensive because that lower block, which I'm assuming is parking, is just brutal.
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  #7647  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2010, 2:41 PM
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There was a time when architects tried to hide the ventilation works of a building. Now the entire thing looks like a Carrier A/C unit sitting beside someone's house.
     
     
  #7648  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2010, 3:03 PM
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I really enjoy the hotel rendering, yes the vents are less then desireable but I thought this would be cladding for parking or am I mistaken? I didn't have time to read the article.

For the land value I think that's absurd! I'm emailing darren hill to express my disappointment, I shall tack on SSP to that email!
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  #7649  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2010, 3:42 PM
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11 frickin million dollars? I wish the real estate companies and developers would quit pretending this is Vancouver or Toronto. I'd like to know what their justification is for nearly tripling the price. It makes no sense..

-There have been no significant projects in the area with the exception of completing the west side of the river landing and readjustment of 19th st which was already in the books when the original price was negotiated.

-Real estate prices have not gone up not that much at all and for high price dwellings has actually dropped.

-To everyone's knowledge not one other developer has shown interest in the site.

They're taking a huge risk here and this could essentially kill the project. Meanwhile River Landing sits empty bringing in no revenue on an 82 million dollar sidewalk. Hopefully since this was done through a 3rd party then the city could come back with a more reasonable price.
     
     
  #7650  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2010, 4:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Morogolus View Post
11 frickin million dollars? I wish the real estate companies and developers would quit pretending this is Vancouver or Toronto. I'd like to know what their justification is for nearly tripling the price. It makes no sense..

-There have been no significant projects in the area with the exception of completing the west side of the river landing and readjustment of 19th st which was already in the books when the original price was negotiated.

-Real estate prices have not gone up not that much at all and for high price dwellings has actually dropped.

-To everyone's knowledge not one other developer has shown interest in the site.

They're taking a huge risk here and this could essentially kill the project. Meanwhile River Landing sits empty bringing in no revenue on an 82 million dollar sidewalk. Hopefully since this was done through a 3rd party then the city could come back with a more reasonable price.
Don't take offence but these professional appraisers know a lot more about downtown commercial real estate values than you do. They have access to all of the recent sales data for other parcels downtown. I don't think it is that surpirsing that the value has increased that much.
     
     
  #7651  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2010, 4:24 PM
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I'm not taking offense but personally think they're off their rocker and as far as I know they don't really have a lot of sold downtown parcels to compare it to. I could say my 1993 Corsica is worth 20,000 dollars but it doesn't mean anything if no one will pay that much.
     
     
  #7652  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2010, 5:45 PM
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I can't remember seeing where the Sheraton and Best Western are going... does anyone know? Are there any renderings? The Holiday Inn might not be the most inspired building but I'm satisfied to FINALLY see something going in on that site.

On the River Landing issue... wow, what's up with that? I'm not saying that $11 million isn't a fair price, maybe $4 mil and change was too low; what I'm wondering is how they come up with these numbers? Maybe it's a cash grab now that some new deep pockets have come into play? It makes it a little hard to take them seriously when they don't seem to have a clear idea of the fair value of the land I'm curious to see the reaction from LP and Dr. Nasser.
     
     
  #7653  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2010, 5:46 PM
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Originally Posted by shmakim View Post
omfg.... maybe we can urge them to reveal the differences in appraisal procedures? It's ridiculous to think that the land has almost tripled in value since 2008. What other land in Saskatoon has done that???

Think I need to email Bob Pringle again... maybe get him on the phone this time.....
I think we all need to get on our respective city councilors email/phone! This is potentially a deal breaker for sure! How can they have come up with this evaluation of the land? Our very short lived "boom" is well over. Sure, we have weathered the financial storm relatively well, but to say that land values have tripled in 2 years is beyond absurd! If this turns Lake Placid away, which I wouldn't blame them, then good luck in trying to market this piece of property to the next developer (....like there is a long line up of developers)

I am very disappointed in this. Even if this land has been evaluated to be this price, I think our council needs to provide some concession and go back to the original purchas price and lets get this thing going! Do they not see the economic impact of a $200 mil development and the ensuing land tax, jobs, revitalization, dowtown residencey, etc.????

     
     
  #7654  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2010, 5:52 PM
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I can't remember seeing where the Sheraton and Best Western are going... does anyone know? Are there any renderings?
The Sheraton Four Points is going up in Stonebridge, by the big-box mall. And the Best Western is going up on the west end of 22nd Street, out near the Shaw Centre and the new Wal-Mart.

I don't think there are any renderings online, but both buildings are now standing in the structural sense. Exterior/interior work continues... they are both uninspiringly suburban.
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  #7655  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2010, 5:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Morogolus View Post
I'm not taking offense but personally think they're off their rocker and as far as I know they don't really have a lot of sold downtown parcels to compare it to. I could say my 1993 Corsica is worth 20,000 dollars but it doesn't mean anything if no one will pay that much.
There are other properties currently for sale in Saskatoon for more than $100/sq. ft. For example, there is a listing on Main off Broadway at $120. I believe some prime dowtown Regina land has recently traded for more than that.
     
     
  #7656  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2010, 7:27 PM
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The above ground parking is not surprising. At least it's softened with a strip of greenery running the length. I don't mind the venting. Those slits help to break up what would otherwise be a blank wall.

What will make or break this hotel is how well the street level interacts with the pedestrian. The Pacific Ave side offers views into the lobby, and perhaps restaurant. It's not obvious in this rendering, but I suspect they have a guest drop-off/pick-up loop similar to the Hilton/Sheraton. I'm curious about the corner of Wall and 22nd, and more importantly whether there is an entrance or view into the hotel from Wall St.

Other than those concerns, it's a great use of that site and will have a positive impact on the surrounding businesses (Chianti, Caffe Sola, maybe Saigon Rose (a little bit further)...Arby's ).

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  #7657  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2010, 7:53 PM
shmakim shmakim is offline
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There are other properties currently for sale in Saskatoon for more than $100/sq. ft. For example, there is a listing on Main off Broadway at $120. I believe some prime dowtown Regina land has recently traded for more than that.
If two independent appraisers came up with close to the same price for that land, it gives them a certain amount of credibility. The land may actually be worth that much.... or close to.... but a big problem is that the city offered it to LP 2 years ago for $4.7M!! Maybe the price of the land at that time was severely undervalued, but it was offered at that price! I think that because a deal was brokered that included that possibly insanely low price, that it needs to be considered in any future price they offer to LP. What if they were to select somewhere in the middle and say $7.5-8M? That might not be nearly the slap that $11M will be. And it's not like the city is forking out the dollars that it can come down on the price of the land. It's not like they will need to come up with $1M to offset the cost of the land by $1M. They _could_ sell the land to LP for $4.7M without problem.

One encouraging flicker, that I later noted at the bottom of the agenda post, was that Lobsinger and Nasser met with the city and Deloitte & Touche, who are acting as auditors for the city, and LP seemed willing to hand over lots of financial detail, and said they'd hand over more if it'll help. THIS is encouraging.
     
     
  #7658  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2010, 8:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Morogolus View Post
11 frickin million dollars? I wish the real estate companies and developers would quit pretending this is Vancouver or Toronto. I'd like to know what their justification is for nearly tripling the price. It makes no sense..
No offense but $104 per square foot would be absurdly cheap in downtown Toronto and I would assume the same for Vancouver. Land prices have been increasing wildly across Canada as well. Some lot that may have sold for $200 a square foot in downtown Toronto five years ago could easily get $350 today.
     
     
  #7659  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2010, 9:07 PM
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No offense but $104 per square foot would be absurdly cheap in downtown Toronto and I would assume the same for Vancouver. Land prices have been increasing wildly across Canada as well. Some lot that may have sold for $200 a square foot in downtown Toronto five years ago could easily get $350 today.
I think the point is, that it's absurdly expensive for Saskatoon.
     
     
  #7660  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2010, 9:30 PM
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I think the point is, that it's absurdly expensive for Saskatoon.
not really, saskatoon is an expensive city to live in, and people need to realize that, we are no longer the cheap small city we used to be. we are now expensive and one of the major cities in Canada.
     
     
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