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  #241  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2010, 7:15 PM
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Well, maybe they will allow 15+ storey buildings on the west side of booth when this areas redevelopment goes further...
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  #242  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2010, 8:52 PM
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Do you really think they'll redesign? Maybe the multi story buildings that are planned, but I think the townhomes are there to stay.
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  #243  
Old Posted Mar 30, 2010, 5:21 AM
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  #244  
Old Posted Mar 30, 2010, 4:27 PM
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Looks like this tower is gonna be topped out before the end of April...I still think what I said before about these little towers looking great from Portage Bridge is correct. They look even better now that you can see the 2nd tower above the treeline, and they both look like they setback against all of the apartments up on the hill really well from this angle too.

Great pic, and thanks for keeping the updates going!
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  #245  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2010, 9:07 PM
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Originally Posted by jcollins View Post
Do you really think they'll redesign? Maybe the multi story buildings that are planned, but I think the townhomes are there to stay.
If it were to happen, it would likely only be superficial -- no change in density, just cladding.
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  #246  
Old Posted Apr 1, 2010, 1:36 PM
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Originally Posted by citizen j View Post
If it were to happen, it would likely only be superficial -- no change in density, just cladding.
All of this argument about density has me wondering if the final product, with 1200+ people living on that plot of land is 'not dense'.

What do you believe to be an appropriate density ratio?
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  #247  
Old Posted Apr 1, 2010, 5:17 PM
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Originally Posted by K-133 View Post
All of this argument about density has me wondering if the final product, with 1200+ people living on that plot of land is 'not dense'.

What do you believe to be an appropriate density ratio?
You could justify a large range of ratios because the site is so large. You don't need to worry about integrating with existing neighbourhoods except along a few of the edges.

I think the bigger difficulty is that it's a big 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 for a developer to build high density in the middle of a bunch of fields. I think they should have started with the smaller scale units, lowrises, townhouses, and then built up to larger towers as the area started to become established and desirable. It's a great location. It just doesn't look like it currently. Zero curb appeal.

It's almost like the residential equivalent of Canary Wharf. O&Y tried to build a new financial district in London (which was hugely needed). They spent something like $10B making roads and towers and such. It's the type of thing that only succeeds if you build a bunch of it first. Of course they nearly went bankrupt and had to sell a bunch of the project before completing it, but it's a hugely profitable venture now, and quite an attractive 'office complex' from a design perspective.

Back to Lebreton, imagine if someone with more money than sense were to build it with a mix of densities all the way up to high rise. Put up four 40-floor towers (not too close) and have each be a variation on a theme. Like the seasons. The teal one can be summer.
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  #248  
Old Posted Apr 1, 2010, 6:06 PM
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What I would have loved to see here(and what is theoretically still possible) would be for the City or the NCC(or even a PPP with both plus a developer) to have dug some small canals beyond the viaduct with small roads and bridges surrounding, and then sold the developable pieces of land off in really small chunks. It would have encouraged a really cool next-generation Amsterdam feel to the neighborhood. But that would have been way too creative...
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  #249  
Old Posted Apr 1, 2010, 6:18 PM
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What I would have loved to see here(and what is theoretically still possible) would be for the City or the NCC(or even a PPP with both plus a developer) to have dug some small canals beyond the viaduct with small roads and bridges surrounding, and then sold the developable pieces of land off in really small chunks. It would have encouraged a really cool next-generation Amsterdam feel to the neighborhood. But that would have been way too creative...
All too true sadly...
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  #250  
Old Posted Apr 1, 2010, 6:24 PM
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Hi guys, I've been reading the ssp posts for the past several months and they've been a great source of information. Many thanks and please keep it up.

To give some background, I did buy a 1bdrm unit in the second tower back in 2008. I won't dwell on the delays, etc. I'm just glad things have ramped up lately and I hope that the mid-2011 timeframe will stick.

While I was initially disappointed at the less-than-thrilling (to put it mildly) exterior of the first tower, I am starting to feel better about the development as a whole. This seems to be the common sentiment of most of you ssp regulars. I still think they should have had grander plans for this prime location, but then again, I probably wouldn't have been able to afford to be a part of that anyway. It's good to see things moving along regardless.

A novice topic that I would like to understand: the reason for all this debate about density and in what form it should be allowed, etc. I see similar debates in most threads (eg: 111 West) and it seems like there are certain places where certain amounts of density should be allowed/wanted/restricted, and I'm not sure I understand the rationale. I suspect it has something to do with the likelihood for this 'density' to lead to further development, retail/commercial, etc, etc... any truth to that?

Any input would be welcomed.
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  #251  
Old Posted Apr 1, 2010, 11:29 PM
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Originally Posted by condo_dreams View Post
A novice topic that I would like to understand: the reason for all this debate about density and in what form it should be allowed, etc. I see similar debates in most threads (eg: 111 West) and it seems like there are certain places where certain amounts of density should be allowed/wanted/restricted, and I'm not sure I understand the rationale. I suspect it has something to do with the likelihood for this 'density' to lead to further development, retail/commercial, etc, etc... any truth to that?

Any input would be welcomed.
Density and intensification certainly are topics which play very prominantly on this forum. I think it's safe to say that the majority consensus is pro-intensification, but we have many different opinions as to what is the appropriate level or nature of that intensification. In the wider community, the predominant sentiment seems to be more one of apathy and/or pro-status-quo.

What's the idea behind intensification/promotion of greater density. I would suggest that there are two primary modes of favourable argument:

1) Short-term localized benefits: exactly what you mentioned - when there are more residents in an area, this better supports the existing nearby businesses, community organizations, cultural institutions, etc, merely by having more people in closer proximity to them. This helps make areas more livable, arguably safer (more eyes on the street), more exciting, and more vibrant. By accomplishing these things, development can improve life even for those already living in these areas.

2. Long-term esoteric benefit: This is that question of "what type of a city (or world) do we want to live in". Dense cities, where people are able to walk to everything they need, or use efficient public transit to easily get where they want to go are more livable, human environments. They have a lesser overall impact on the environment. Increasing density is about city-building as a whole, and determining what type of place Ottawa could and should become.

Aside from a general sense of prefering the status quo, the three more principled arguments against intensification are:

1) Destroying unique communities/environments: there is a fear that greater density can overwhelm a community and counteract elements that make them unique. There is no doubt that there is merit to arguing that wrongfully executed intensification can cause problems - large new buildings that have no interaction with the street can actually destroy the urban fabric. Overly tall, not-set-back development on main streets for example can create a 'tunnel' effect. It is argued that binging in new retail can hurt old, longstanding businesses.

2) Anti-libertarian nature of intensification: people prefer single family homes because they are the only natural way of raising families, etc. People want cars, and preferably more than the number of people in their household. This is good, and intensification is unnatural, therefore should not be encouraged, as everyone should have the equal opportunity of pursuing their 'American Dream' lifestyle.

3) Destruction of the Commons: undeveloped property somehow belongs to all, not the owner, and to develop it is to destroy a community resource.

While these issues tend to crop up everywhere, there are some threads on this forum that specifically deal with these subjects, which you may wish to check out. Two that come to mind are the "Intensification Forum" thread, and the "Build up or out?" thread.
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  #252  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2010, 4:31 AM
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Thanks for the references Ottawan. I quickly read through both those threads, and there were definitely some perspectives on densification that hadn't occurred to me initially.

What I've gathered in summary is: Too bad Ottawa has such strange rules on densification, and such strict height restrictions. Too bad that the City seems to have even worse and haphazard application of those rules. I guess there are strong reasons for people to voice their opinions either way; glad to have a basis to form my own opinions going forward.

Getting back on topic, I noticed that the glass has been placed onto the windows of all the podium floors but the top (6th) floor of the Booth-facing side of the second tower. I'm not sure if that's the case all around.
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  #253  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2010, 12:26 PM
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30 March 2010

Here's a shot I took a few days ago from the parkway.. I seem to have one leg shorter than the other.

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  #254  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2010, 12:49 PM
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Great shot!

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  #255  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2010, 5:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waterloowarrior View Post
Here's a couple more images for context




(source: southfacing flickr)

Here's where the Firefighters monument will be according to http://www.cfff.ca/en/memorial/
I still find it pretty confusing, and I'm not sure I'm able to pinpoint which buildings are which... I think a newbie like me needs someone to mark the current buildings with a big red X haha.
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  #256  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2010, 9:00 PM
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In that last image, the two towers are the ones in the north east corner, just below the red star.
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  #257  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2010, 9:12 PM
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some news from the Dalhousie community association
http://dalhousiecommunityassociation.blogspot.com/2010/04/dca-minutes-draft-april-7-2010.html

Other Planning Projects
The planner responsible for the Claridge application on the Flats said that it the choice of the developer as to how much parking is provided for projects close to transit stations, while in other cases the policy has been interpreted so that the developer is held by the City to these standards. The first section of the new Claridge building at 200 Lett Street on the Flats is occupied, they are building the 2nd wing and tower of it right now. The new application going to the City is for a third structure, comprising a 6 storey building, townhouses and an increase to 8 storeys for a smaller apartment unit. The DCA will oppose the application for increased height as the original plans aimed for mixed height buildings and we do not want the flats to turn into a collection of high rises with sterile spaces between. It is better for the buildings to step down in height as they approach the aquaduct, not that they get higher.
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  #258  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2010, 9:55 PM
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Im guessing it's the triangular shaped building(s) directly south of the first two phases. Make sense?
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  #259  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2010, 11:23 PM
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Yes, they are referring to block 2 which is that triangular piece along the aqueduct. The .pdf files linked from this page on the NCC site show in a little more detail all of the plans for Phase 1 of Lebreton Flats (blocks 1,2,3,4, and 12): http://www.canadascapital.gc.ca/bins/ncc_web_content_page.asp?cid=16300-20444-20506-20510&lang=1
The model gives you a really good idea of how the current towers will integrate into the neighbourhood.
I am personally very interested in this next block as I may consider purchasing one of the townhouses in the development. Anyone know when this next stage might be released?
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  #260  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2010, 3:48 AM
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Thanks for the clarification. That's what I initially thought as well, but I got confused as the two buildings beside it are not a part of the 'yellow-orange' Claridge part of the development according to the first picture.

I haven't come across anything about the 2nd block's townhouses yet. I would be interested in hearing more about it as well.
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