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  #1641  
Old Posted Mar 10, 2010, 5:59 PM
quobobo quobobo is offline
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Originally Posted by AlexYVR View Post
This is all true, Yume, but (and correct me if I'm wrong) - this isn't a zero-sum game, is it? It's not like the city had a huge pile of cash sitting around that they could have allocated to 300 units in Gastown rather than 100 units in SEFC, right?
They could have easily asked for that pile of cash in place of the social housing component.
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  #1642  
Old Posted Mar 10, 2010, 5:59 PM
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Every new project is required to have some social aspect. Whether it's actual social housing (my building), a daycare (Atelier), public art (Shangri-la), or renovating of a public / art institution (Capitol).

However, it is the government that sets the requirements. This is FAR and irresponsibly above those requirements.

It is the least sustainable thing of this over the top LEED community. And you know they only did it to try and one-up the European socialists.
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  #1643  
Old Posted Mar 10, 2010, 7:05 PM
officedweller officedweller is offline
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The other aspect is that if the neighbourhood is geared towards higher end units, then the retail and services in the area will be high-priced and geared to the high end. That doesn't serve the social housing component. While there will be a London Drugs in SEFC, the supermarket will be Urban Fare. Up the hill - a bit farther inland (i.e. closer to cheaper land) there's the Save-on-Foods, and further up the hill, Safeway and Kins Farm Market at City Square (although Safeway and Save-on-Foods are the "expensive" supermarkets). I also wouldn't expect the social housing folk to shop at Whole Paycheck.
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  #1644  
Old Posted Mar 10, 2010, 10:11 PM
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they could go to that ghetto grocery store at kingsway and broadway 0w hats it called? in kingsgate mall its not too far
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  #1645  
Old Posted Mar 10, 2010, 11:28 PM
CBeats CBeats is offline
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Originally Posted by officedweller View Post
I also wouldn't expect the social housing folk to shop at Whole Paycheck.
Oh come on, that place is geared specifically for low income folks, more than any other grocery store around!
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  #1646  
Old Posted Mar 11, 2010, 12:25 AM
officedweller officedweller is offline
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From the Courier - interesting notes about The Georgia.
Also amazing that the cost-overruns haven't deterred Sulivan from, in effect, saying
- if a high end building can do it, the Olympic Village should do it too...
Real smart.

Quote:
Athletes Village balconies aren't wheelchair accessible
Former mayor and Paralympic Games ambassador calls situation a 'scandal'

Mike Howell
Vancouver Courier


Wednesday, March 10, 2010

As athletes gather in Vancouver this week for the 2010 Paralympic Games, none of the apartment balconies at the Athletes Village were designed to allow access for wheelchairs.

And the ambassador for the Paralympic Games isn't too happy about it.

Sam Sullivan, the city's former mayor, said while he understands the concerns the design team had with water leaking from a balcony into a suite, more effort should have been made to make the balconies accessible. All suites have a curb between the living area and the balcony. "That's a scandal," said Sullivan, who was recently appointed ambassador to the Paralympics. "I just talked to the guy building the Georgia hotel and he told me he had to fight for it but he has now achieved an agreement that he can build flush balconies. So if a private sector guy in a very expensive building like that can do it, why couldn't the Athletes' Village do it?"

This week, Paralympians and officials from Canada and around the world arrive in Vancouver and Whistler for the Paralympic Games, which kick off Friday. According to the Vancouver organizing committee's website, 350 people will reside at the city's Athletes Village and 1,200 at the Whistler Athletes Village.

Last week, the Courier reported that Vancouver was one of the most accessible cities in the world for people with disabilities, according to Sullivan, who is a quadriplegic and requires the use of a wheelchair.

But the fact that buildings which will be home to disabled athletes are not fully accessible is disappointing to Sullivan, who noted the Southeast False Creek development was recently certified as the greenest, most energy efficient and sustainable neighbourhood in the world.

"It's very upsetting for me to think about that now," Sullivan said.

Structural engineer Roger Bayley, who was the design manager for Merrick Architecture on the Southeast False Creek project, said adding curbs between living area and balconies is typical in highrises.

"If the building envelope fails, then we've got serious problems on our hands," said Bayley, noting a curb is typically seven inches tall. "I can tell you we went through an awful lot of discussion on this issue and everyone concluded that at the end of the day, [building] envelope performance had to trump the access to the balconies."

He agreed with Sullivan that a suite could be built so a balcony would be flush with the living area. But, he said, it would be expensive because of the added cost of making specially designed concrete slab forms.

Bayley believed the current city council, led by Vision Vancouver Coun. Heather Deal, passed a motion that required all new highrises be built with flush balconies. Deal did not return a call to the Courier before deadline.

"I don't know whether the construction industry and the design industry ever got around to reading this motion because it would have very significant impacts on the construction process," he said.

Jane Dyson, executive director of the B.C. Coalition of People with Disabilities, said she was disappointed to learn the balconies at the village were not accessible to people in wheelchairs. Dyson called the inaccessible balconies "shortsighted."

"I would have hoped they would have had some wheelchair users and people with other disabilities to go and test it out," she said. "We think that's really important and it's not done enough."

The Courier left several messages over the past two weeks for VANOC to determine if portable ramps would be installed so wheelchair athletes and officials could access balconies at the village.

A VANOC representative contacted the Courier March 5 and said she would call back with an answer. The Courier had not received a call before deadline. Anna Parisi of the Canadian Paralympic Committee declined to comment on the issue.

[email protected]

© Vancouver Courier 2010
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  #1647  
Old Posted Mar 11, 2010, 12:35 AM
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Hmm. Now that I think about it my balcony isn't wheelchair accessible either. Never really thought of this.

Hope I don't get hit by a bus.
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  #1648  
Old Posted Mar 11, 2010, 12:47 AM
zivan56 zivan56 is offline
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Due to the nature of our building construction, it is rather costly to create accessible balconies. You have to cut into the slab in order to put the guides/frame for the balcony doors. This means you are essentially compromising the structural integrity of a concrete slab jutting out of the side of the floor with no support...so you would have to support some other way or make it thicker. IMO not worthwhile due to the huge cost associated with it, especially compared to the percentage of people bound to a wheelchair. I could see it being the norm in assisted living/old folks homes, though.

The best thing is to have a chair which could help them transfer from a wheelchair inside to another one outside. That wouldn't burden the rest of the people in the building from having to pay more.
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  #1649  
Old Posted Mar 11, 2010, 1:31 AM
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How on earth is this a scandal? If you want a real scandal: the bathrooms aren't wheelchair accessible...or even, the ENTIRE VILLAGE isn't accessible.
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  #1650  
Old Posted Mar 11, 2010, 4:25 AM
igeneer igeneer is offline
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The truth is that the weather is not that great for balconies now, and if a potential buyer required wheelchair access to their balcony, a ramp could be installed (Paralympics are so short it's not worth the extra money). I don't think the entire development envelope should be put at risk so that a small minority can have access to balconies. The whole lifecycle of the development needs to be taken into account, not just the 1 month it's in use by paralympians.

I'm curious, does anyone know when the units will be open to move into by the owners?
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  #1651  
Old Posted Mar 11, 2010, 4:13 PM
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More troubling is this quote from the article:

...Bayley believed the current city council, led by Vision Vancouver Coun. Heather Deal, passed a motion that required all new highrises be built with flush balconies. Deal did not return a call to the Courier before deadline...

So in other words, Vision just passed a motion to increase the cost of every new condo to be built in the City. Bravo, how long to the next election?
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  #1652  
Old Posted Mar 11, 2010, 5:59 PM
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That is a bit of an obscure new "law". I actually haven't seen flush balconies anywhere I've been... not that I can think of, anyways

And, even if that were true... I'm pretty sure construction was being completed on this project before this government was even in power.

Most houses do not even have a flush balcony / deck, do they? I've never had one in all of the places I've lived. Always gone down a step.

Considering the amount of rain Vancouver gets, it almost seems like a bad idea to be flush...
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  #1653  
Old Posted Mar 13, 2010, 10:31 AM
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Flush Balconies

Actually I have never seen balconies anywhere in the world except for Canada that does not build flush access balconies.
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  #1654  
Old Posted Mar 13, 2010, 2:03 PM
delboy delboy is offline
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Originally Posted by mr.x View Post
How on earth is this a scandal? If you want a real scandal: the bathrooms aren't wheelchair accessible...or even, the ENTIRE VILLAGE isn't accessible.
that was my feeling from reading the article. Sullivan was a knob as mayor and he's one in his present role. If he is so with it, why did n't he notice the oversight before?
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  #1655  
Old Posted Mar 13, 2010, 8:50 PM
johnjimbc johnjimbc is offline
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Actually I have never seen balconies anywhere in the world except for Canada that does not build flush access balconies.
There are a lot of negatives in the sentence so I'm not completely sure what you've seen . I think you're saying all the other balconies you've seen were flush.

In DC, some buildings had flush balconies while others did not. It was a mixed bag, even in the new construction buildings. I remember weighing the pros and cons when looking at properties. I love the aesthetic thought of having a flush balcony, especially if you have true floor to ceiling doors that can be swept back. But in a place with lots of rain (like here), or gully-washer storms (like DC), I appreciate knowing there is a bit of a barrier. You don't always want to bring the outside world completely inside .
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  #1656  
Old Posted Mar 13, 2010, 9:06 PM
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that was my feeling from reading the article. Sullivan was a knob as mayor and he's one in his present role. If he is so with it, why did n't he notice the oversight before?
So, Sam Sullivan was the architect ?
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  #1657  
Old Posted Mar 14, 2010, 2:13 AM
Coral Builder Coral Builder is offline
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Have you guys got any photos of the Olympic Village now that the Olympics are over and the paraolympics are about to start?
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  #1658  
Old Posted Mar 14, 2010, 6:01 PM
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Originally Posted by igeneer View Post
I'm curious, does anyone know when the units will be open to move into by the owners?
I believe move-ins were originally scheduled to start taking place in May...
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  #1659  
Old Posted Mar 14, 2010, 9:24 PM
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when does the retail part open? this summer or fall?
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  #1660  
Old Posted Mar 14, 2010, 11:33 PM
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^I would suspect some of the early-birds could be this summer with it starting to fill-out by the fall.

though with many units (and therefore customers) unsold I wouldn't exactly be rushing as a retailer.
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