Millennium Line - Broadway Extension: Planning & Pre-Construction

[cabotp]

Originally Posted by cornholio

exactly.

The blind lack of questioning is because no one has the time or means to quesion everything, its simply not possilbe. Someone who finds the time to question goverment policies will as a result not find the time to question for example the ingredients in a Strawbery Cheese cake, and vice versa. You will never get a majority of people questioning one single issue, its not possible and its not efficient. Rather you will have the majority basing their understanding of each issue on the facts that are available. Most of these facts are deemed to come from people who did question the issue, and therefore as valid (from a large sample pool) as if each person them selvs questioned the issue. The majority then predicts what the truth should be, or is most likely to be based on this information, and it then acts on it as if it were the truth.

This simple fact is then exploited, and this is why big lies are easy to tell, incredibly easy, infact disgustingly easy.

By the way cabotp, we are all sheep, there is no way of escaping that fact, by not being a blind follower in one aspect of life you become a blind follower in another. Its simply not possilbe to live life without ever being a "sheep".

Ba Ba Ba

Questioning to me is about learning. You don't have to debate with anyone. You just have to find out all the facts and figure out where the truth lies. But as was said before. Some people are too lazy.

[cabotp]

Originally Posted by jlousa

Okay now back on topic.

Topic. Oh ya UBC Extension.

Debate - Well there is no debate. It has to be skytrain.

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by cabotp

And here I was hoping the sheep would make mince meat out of him

Great Video! I bet he enjoyed eating mutton a few months later.

[Zassk]

I agree that UBC should ante up some funds for this line - at least $200 million. The parallels with YVR are obvious, as both entities invest considerable money into transportation, whether SkyTrain comes or not. $200 million amortized over 50 years seems like a reasonable expectation to place on the university and its electoral district. We're not talking about a single station passing nearby like Langara-49th, we're talking about several kilometers of guideway crossing a long stretch of UBC jurisdiction. If this means building 2 stations to justify the financial burden, then so be it, build a second station out by Thunderbird Stadium somewhere, there are plenty of residents out that way (and a new high school and shopping centre soon enough).

[MalcolmTucker]

^ To get a second station closer to the south residential - sure, the is UBCs dime, but to require anything more than a nominal contribution to integrate the 'bus loop' station, lets say $10 million, would be ridiculous. It isn't like the University is a private developer or business.

[twoNeurons]

Let's be honest, UBC doesn't NEED SkyTrain. They can make do with Rapid Bus. The students are a captive audience. ( Sorry if I offend some UBC students or UBC alumni here ). At this time, Rapid transit needs to penetrate central Broadway.

UBC is, in some respects, a private developer. They leased land to build a tonne of condos, didn't they?

The entire UBC segment should be paid for by UBC. Since it is the largest provincial University, I'm sure Victoria can help them out if they're short of cash.

UBC also has a lot of wealthy alumni.

Besides, it isn't worth it at this time to worry about nimbies in the area. You know there will be protests and then you will have outrage from communities that actually WANT SkyTrain in their area.

[Zassk]

Originally Posted by Sir.Humphrey.Appleby

It isn't like the University is a private developer or business.

That is exactly what UBC is.... UBC is a very rich entity with an aggressive recent history of development, plans for more, enough valuable land to finance anything, and no municipal government to rein it in.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by Zassk

That is exactly what UBC is.... UBC is a very rich entity with an aggressive recent history of development, plans for more, enough valuable land to finance anything, and no municipal government to rein it in.

The developer does it in full support of the public good however, relieving the broader tax payer from the burden of supplying as much direct and capital financing. The endowment isn't there for private gain - it is all about students and research in the end.

[TransitJack]

Originally Posted by Zassk

I agree that UBC should ante up some funds for this line - at least $200 million. The parallels with YVR are obvious, as both entities invest considerable money into transportation, whether SkyTrain comes or not. $200 million amortized over 50 years seems like a reasonable expectation to place on the university and its electoral district. We're not talking about a single station passing nearby like Langara-49th, we're talking about several kilometers of guideway crossing a long stretch of UBC jurisdiction. If this means building 2 stations to justify the financial burden, then so be it, build a second station out by Thunderbird Stadium somewhere, there are plenty of residents out that way (and a new high school and shopping centre soon enough).

The issue with that is UBC is a public institution. If they pay, its just taxpayers footing the bill anyways, or worse, higher fees to students, which again, is a burden to taxpayers (and future taxpayers).

[TransitJack]

Originally Posted by cabotp

You can also add the Alex Fraser Bridge and the East-West Connector in Richmond.

Also was BC Place built for Expo 86. I remember it opening in 82 or 83. But I was only a kid so really didn't know anything back then.

I don't believe it was built FOR expo. It opened in 82 or 83. Not long after the expo transformation began and the old mills and railway tracks were completely removed.

[TransitJack]

Originally Posted by mr.x

And what about all those concerns by those radical lefties about a "police state" infringing on their rights? "ZOMG! IT'S A POLICE STATE! OH THE HUMANITY!" They're the polar opposite of American muslim terrorism fear mongers.

17-days later, they're all quiet...except for a even smaller minority that have whined that crowd control methodologies have made the city a police state.

I saw lots of police, thanks to their new and improved high viz vests. Maybe this was the root of their fears, high-vis vests, hehe run, run from the high viz vest police state.

[Zassk]

Originally Posted by TransitJack

The issue with that is UBC is a public institution. If they pay, its just taxpayers footing the bill anyways, or worse, higher fees to students, which again, is a burden to taxpayers (and future taxpayers).

UBC could build another Hampton Place complex and the proceeds could pay for several kilometers of SkyTrain. Come on, this is the post-Martha-Piper era, UBC is no stranger to courting private money.

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by TransitJack

The issue with that is UBC is a public institution. If they pay, its just taxpayers footing the bill anyways, or worse, higher fees to students, which again, is a burden to taxpayers (and future taxpayers).

Well, even public institutions have budgets and a limited share of public funds.

If UBC asks for more money, it will be the Province's 5 million people paying for it. People from all over BC come to UBC and benefit from the University, there's no reason such a huge improvement to accessibility to a major provincial institution can't be born by the Province.

Don't get me wrong, this isn't about getting the province to pay for our train... because it really isn't OUR train. The main benefits are those that live on UBC endowment lands, professors who teach there and students.

For anyone comparing UBC to SFU, it's night and day. The train doesn't go up to SFU, it goes NEAR SFU. SFU chose to make a new campus near the train (Surrey) and the main campus an enroute destination.

Similar to Port Moody, really. It's not big enough to get a line on its own, but it happens to be on the way ( or in way, depending on how you look at it ) to Coquitlam.

Maybe they can rename the line the "BC Line"

[Northski]

What makes you think that UBC could generate more money by selling the land to a developer rather than developing it self?

35% of UBC students take transit, half of which because of the upass, that leaves 83% of students as noncaptive riders. What about all the other staff that work there year round and are not covered by the upass. The UBC section of the line is quite small, mabye 10%. I can't see UBC funding this section of the line making a difference to wether the line would get built.

[Zassk]

Originally Posted by Northski

The UBC section of the line is quite small, mabye 10%. I can't see UBC funding this section of the line making a difference to wether the line would get built.

If it is built in 2 phases (e.g. to Arbutus first), then UBC's contribution could very well determine whether the second phase is built sooner/later/never.

[CLC]

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

For anyone comparing UBC to SFU, it's night and day.The train doesn't go up to SFU, it goes NEAR SFU]. SFU chose to make a new campus near the train (Surrey) and the main campus an enroute destination.

I don't seem to notice anyone comparing UBC to SFU...
Surely no one is willing to walk from Production Way University station to SFU main campus

Maybe to save money, the Broadway skytrain can terminate at Alma but name the station as Alma/UBC

[TransitJack]

Originally Posted by Zassk

UBC could build another Hampton Place complex and the proceeds could pay for several kilometers of SkyTrain. Come on, this is the post-Martha-Piper era, UBC is no stranger to courting private money.

I hear Toope firing up his chainsaw now...

[TransitJack]

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

Well, even public institutions have budgets and a limited share of public funds.

If UBC asks for more money, it will be the Province's 5 million people paying for it. People from all over BC come to UBC and benefit from the University, there's no reason such a huge improvement to accessibility to a major provincial institution can't be born by the Province.

Don't get me wrong, this isn't about getting the province to pay for our train... because it really isn't OUR train. The main benefits are those that live on UBC endowment lands, professors who teach there and students.

For anyone comparing UBC to SFU, it's night and day. The train doesn't go up to SFU, it goes NEAR SFU. SFU chose to make a new campus near the train (Surrey) and the main campus an enroute destination.

Similar to Port Moody, really. It's not big enough to get a line on its own, but it happens to be on the way ( or in way, depending on how you look at it ) to Coquitlam.

Maybe they can rename the line the "BC Line"

I understand your logic. But I think a lot of people would have issue with UBC paying (hundred's of millions?) to finance what in essence is a UBC extension then either asking the government for more funds, developing more lands, raising tuition, etc.

I know I would have much rather taken Skytrain to campus than the often late 25, or always stuffed 99...however, I recognize that have the school pay for it would only mean higher costs to attend, or lower services from the school as a result.

I really think a funding model for such projects should be from senior levels of governments only (Provincial/Federal) and leave Translink to operate the system. (and leave UBC to fund education and research)

[SpongeG]

i think skytrain to arbutus and than the bline from there is good and all that is needed for UBC or a streetcar from arbutus

[mr.x]

Again, a good middle ground is to have UBC pay for the cost to build the station(s) on its grounds. Having the university pay for the entire bill west of Blanca is a bit asinine.