Calgary Public Transit II

[Ferreth]

Hi,

I was wondering why Calgary Transit does not offer a yearly transit pass. It seems more convinient for those people that are going to use transit all the time.

Thanks in advance for any information you might be able to provide!

I'll let you know what they reply back. I'm curious as to what reason they are going to come up with.

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally Posted by Wooster

I read this article yesterday in eye weekly in Toronto about the potential solutions to the problems plaguing the TTC here in that city and thought it had some relevance to Calgary Transit. I think user experience, "design thinking" and a customer service approach should become a focus for Calgary Transit. This article outlines several good reasons why.


A creative director for the TTC?
Bruce Mau says that what our transit system needs is some design thinking

BY Edward Keenan February 17, 2010 21:02

“I was in my minivan with my wife and kids, and we drove up next to a bus shelter in Toronto in February. And the bus shelter was a glass box with a woman in it huddled against the cold,” says the world-famous Toronto designer Bruce Mau, on the phone from Chicago. “And I turned to my wife and said, ‘In a million years, I’m not getting out of this minivan.’

“I mean, I’m an environmentalist and I absolutely know what to do. But that bus shelter is a big fat loser. And I’m not getting out of this van, and no one else who has a choice is either. If we use the same bus shelters as they use in Los Angeles, that ought to tip you off to something. Guys, it’s freezing here! How about we put the shelter in the bus shelter. Design it as an experience. My minivan has 17 cup-holders. What does that say? It says, ‘we understand you.’ The bus shelter has a metal bench. That says, ‘we don’t understand you.’”....

rest of the article.
http://www.eyeweekly.com/city/city/article/83312

Thoughts?

No thanks. For instance, there's a very good reason bus shelters are designed to provide temporary relief from wind and precipitation but without the creature comforts of a minivan. You don't even have to go that far where some creative director's idea about improving the comforts of waiting for a bus ended up costing a city millions. Ottawa spent million on their heated shelters with comfort seating only to dismantle them years later because of a vagrant problem.

Every successful transit agency uses their limited resources to reduce wait times and not to make the wait times as comfortable as posible.

[frinkprof]

Nevermind.

[Wooster]

I think you guys are looking at the bus stop example way too closely. Did you only read the first two paragraphs? The larger point of the article is to design a user experience that is far more customer-focused not about making cushier bus stops.

You know how we constantly bitch and complain at the stupid way that we have to pay for transit passes and tickets? The way it has been always done has never really considered what people really want.

How about how park and rides are designed? They only consider the maximization of the number of parking spaces, not how comfortable and safe it is for people to traverse these vast wastelands.

How about the way scheduling and online route-finding systems are deployed? Not customer-friendly at all.

How about something as simple as real-time tracking of trains? Toronto implemented this system only a year ago, something that simple makes all the difference in the world to transit user experience.

How about how the communications are handled when delays are occurring on the system? How much of a focus is there on ensuring that people are quickly aware of delays so that alternative plans can be made?

How about the genereal physical state of transit stations?

How about focus and training in customer-relations for transit operaters? A friendly and very helpful transit operator can make all the difference in the world.

Yes, the operational efficiency of a transit system is a necessary precondition to customer satisfaction, but it is far from sufficient. All these other aspects seem to be neglected and are just as important to people.

[frinkprof]

Nevermind.

[Wooster]

Before we get too far along, let’s clear up any confusion about the terminology. As Clark points out, design thinking is not about what font you use on the walls or the fabric of the uniforms or any of the other decorative elements one might think of when they hear the word “design.” It is, instead, a holistic way of viewing the organization in such a way that the customer’s interaction with it is designed as an experience...

...the experience that people have in getting to the train, waiting for the train, riding on the train, getting off the train — it’s secondary, it’s not even on their radar screen of concern.”

And yet it is the cargo that is the whole system’s reason for being. A creative director would turn the perspective around. “You ask, ‘what actually happens here on a human level?’ And that would radically change the perspective on the system. Because, actually, the principal objective is experience.

This is the basic crux of the argument in my mind.

Another similarly toned article relating the evolution of the LCBO in Ontario over time to the TTC.

http://www.eyeweekly.com/city/city/article/83311

[Riise]

Originally Posted by freeweed

Methinks you give this enforcement too much credit. All I've ever seen is the enforcement officers quickly walking down the aisle, looking to see if people have something vaguely resembling a pass or ticket. It takes about the same time as a person does to just walk down the train car.

I think you might be giving them too little credit. It could be that to them tickets are like their identical twins, they see them so often they can instantly tell them apart. However, this would mean minimal time gains, if any at all, with the shift to smart cards.

Originally Posted by Sir.Humphrey.Appleby

^ Can you add the new pass using the internet, or do you have to use a dedicated terminal?

I could but there is a problem with their software as I have a student card but the online shop only charges me the regular adult fare. I could probably email someone and get it fixed but I stop by the store every morning so topping up my monthlies doesn't cause any delays. However, it would work fine with my regular Oyster card.

Originally Posted by freeweed

When you actually *ask* about it, the response inevitably comes down to "we just don't see customer demand" - yeah, even in a system where 70% of your ridership uses passes and the majority of them use a pass each and every month. I'm sure there's no demand just because you specifically don't have 100,000 people calling in to ask that specific question.

I'm not a commuter but rather transit dependent and even I won't get an annual travel card. Why?

1. I don't feel like dropping that much money at once.
2. My life changes (e.g. I might come back to Calgary for a few months.)
3. My patterns change (e.g. In one month I could get sick and take two weeks vacation, why pay for a full month?)

I take transit everywhere yet I don't even use it enough to accumulate enough trips over a year to cover the money lost during times where I would not be using transit for weeks at a time.

[freeweed]

Wooster, I agree full with you. Much of how transit is run is just never questioned. When it is, you instantly have a dozen people out defending the status quo.

Heck, I ask why there are no annual passes and so far all I've gotten is "*I* would never use it, so it's a worthless idea" instead of people actually considering the option. Seriously, the vast majority of downtown commuters in Calgary a) can afford $1000 up front and b) don't take off 3 weeks every other month, thereby making a long-term pass impractical. I'm not talking about starving students or occasional riders - I'm talking about providing a service to the tens of thousands of people who take transit each and every day. People who work typically professional jobs that not only pay well, but have a requirement for you to be there most days. People who invariably file 12 months worth of transit passes on their tax return (I've found this is the best way to get a sense of regular transit use) - the majority of transit riders that I've talked to. Downtown Calgary is full of these types.

I've ran the math and unless you take more than a couple of weeks off work, a monthly pass still beats paying every day when you factor in the tax deduction. And so have most people who buy a pass even when they're sick for a few days or what have you.

Transit is almost a sacred cow for some, and I'm not really sure why. It's not a criticism of public transit to suggest improvements, but some sure do respond that way.

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by frinkprof

Right, but have you asked about it?

Yes, and as I stated, they responded with "lack of customer demand".

Those that would be for an annual pass probably aren't clamouring enough about it to break down doors trying to get it, and find the monthly passes just fine.

I didn't realize I had to "break down doors" in order to see service improvements. Sure, a monthly pass *works*, but that's because that's the only option. It probably hasn't occurred to too many people because after all, a monthly pass "works fine". Has anyone ever done a poll of daily users to see if the option would be popular?

As mersar points out, it also adds the burden of dealing with people that get an annual pass, and end up moving, going on leave or disability, getting a job where driving is required or much more convenient, etc. and then want to get out of their annual pass. Also, some people skip months for whatever reason, like they walk or bike in the warmer months, or they go on vacation and it's not economical to get a pass that month. An annual pass doesn't allow that flexibility.

So don't buy it if you're the type that moves around a lot. The majority of people I know in your run-of-the-mill office job here have been in Calgary for years and years, with the same commuting pattern. Heck, half of them know by heart exactly when transit improvements have been made over the years, because they're been that steady of a rider. Besides, people pre-pay (or pre-arrange) for parking spots on an annual basis, and every single one of those counter-arguments could be applied against that. You don't seriously think all those downtown monthly spots require you to go to Mac's every month and renew your spot, do you?

Really? I bet most of the people that post on this thread with any regularity are at least semi-regular transit users.

Absolutely. And there's a world of difference between "semi-regular" and "each and every working day of your life", which is why I used the word "heavily". Obviously someone who takes the LRT 100 times a year has no use for an annual pass. But that doesn't change things for those that take it 3-5x as often. The fact that seemingly no one on this thread could conceive of taking transit every single day of their life in the same city and how to make that more convenient just reinforces what I was saying. In marketing terms, the expression is "you just might not be the target demographic".

Forgive me if I'm reading this wrong, but this sounds a bit smug. As for the bolded part, why are you lumping "pro-transit" and "anti-car" in together? It doesn't make much practical sense, and you would probably find that no one here really thinks like this.

It was tongue-in-cheek, but there's certainly an element of truth to it. It's not just the corndoggers of the world who try to set up the false dichotomy of transit vs roads, the other side has just as many if not more proponents.

It's possible that I'm the only person on the planet who wants this. I'm just amazed that absolutely no one else can see the utility here, and in fact argue pretty strongly against it. Hell, we're already doing it with the student passes, but I don't remember seeing people piping up about how "students might take a week off for spring break" or "you might change to a school in a different city" as the first comments when those sorts of things are introduced.

At the end of the day, if you personally don't want it, don't buy it. That in no way changes the use for those of us that do.

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by Riise

I take transit everywhere yet I don't even use it enough to accumulate enough trips over a year to cover the money lost during times where I would not be using transit for weeks at a time.

Me and 3/4 of downtown Calgary would like to exchange lifestyles with you.

[frinkprof]

Nevermind.

[Dado]

Originally Posted by RicoLance21

Strange C-Train horn

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LA3aMvXdoz8

I didn't notice anything odd about it not having been in Calgary for awhile... but that's probably because it sounds rather like Ottawa's O-Train:

• Video Link

I had to remind myself what the C-Train sounds like:

• Video Link

[freeweed]

Wait, frink, you left Calgary? When and why?

Feels like half the posters here don't even live in Calgary anymore...

[frinkprof]

Nevermind.

[Vascilli]

I still do.

[Ferreth]

Regarding annual transit passes. When I was working downtown, I would not have considered an annual transit pass myself. This is on the assumption that the discount for one would be no better than the monthly pass, of which I bought 10 for the year - I skipped December due to holidays, and either July or August due to holidays.

If the annual pass was a good enough deal to account for *at least* two weeks off in the year, I might have considered getting one.

I agree that CT isn't particularly innovative, but that has served them well to some extent. Perhaps a middle ground of semi-annual or quarterly passes should be considered - less cash outlay, and less value on the card for theft, counterfeiting concerns, with a reduced gain in convenience. I would definitely have bought one of those - for the January to June period at any rate.

[Riise]

Originally Posted by freeweed

Heck, I ask why there are no annual passes and so far all I've gotten is "*I* would never use it, so it's a worthless idea" instead of people actually considering the option.

I don't want to speak for all of the posters here but I think at least a couple of them were simply questioning the actual demand for annual passes and were using their personal experiences to help paint a portrait of the varied backgrounds of transit users. CT is a wonderful picture of incompetency at times but I think they have put more thought and research into the idea of annual passes than you think. Nonetheless, it is an option that I personally think they should provide even though I don't currently use annual travelcards.

Originally Posted by freeweed

Me and 3/4 of downtown Calgary would like to exchange lifestyles with you.

Hahaha! Before I posted that I thought about re-wording that last part. I was trying to get at the fact that I and many others could miss consecutive weeks, usually just two, a couple times throughout the year.

Originally Posted by freeweed

Feels like half the posters here don't even live in Calgary anymore...

Don't worry. Due to popular demand I might be making a brief encore this summer.

[para transit fellow]

there is one annual pass on calgary Transit

It's for seniors and it's like $35 per year

[frinkprof]

Nevermind.

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by frinkprof

There you go Freeweed, sounds perfect for you!

Pfft, I only ACT like a grumpy old fart.

Now get off my lawn!