Metro Vancouver Transit Discussion

[cabotp]

I'd say the biggest secret to why the skytrain system as been running so well. As well as being able to handle the amount of people that it has. Is that it is fully automated and able to do frequency levels that no system with a driver could possibly maintain.

Because of the no drivers. They are able to run all the trains all day non stop. It means that even when there might be drop in passangers for a brief time. They can still run it maxed out. They don't have to know when an event might let out. They don't have to know where people might be going and when they might be going. They just run the system at its max frequency. Lineups constantly move because trains are constantly coming.

If this system had drivers. They wouldn't have enough drivers to be able to run the trains at the frequency they do. And so they would have to have peak periods of operation. But that would mean a drop in service late at night. When I feel the biggest crush load happens when all the party goers head home.

Some people complain about how overly expensive it is to build an automated system. But for once I feel these 2010 Olympics have proven without a doubt that the extra cost is well worth it.

[WarrenC12]

^^^^^ Agree 100%. I was worried that "only" 48 more new cars wouldn't be able to handle the number of passengers, but they are working great.

Dare I suggest that the Evergreen Line could be built without any new rolling stock, at least initially?

Somewhere, zweisystem is crying.

[The_Henry_Man]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

^^^^^ Agree 100%. I was worried that "only" 48 more new cars wouldn't be able to handle the number of passengers, but they are working great.

Dare I suggest that the Evergreen Line could be built without any new rolling stock, at least initially?

Somewhere, zweisystem is crying.

I doubt it. By the time the Evergreen Line is built, in around 4-5 years, the passenger volume on the entire Skytrain system will be much higher. Plus, we'll probably need another Skytrain OMC, most likely somewhere in Port Moody/just east of Ioco.

I now officially declare Zweisystem an insane person. Nuff said.

[CLC]

Originally Posted by Locked In

racc posted the link to Frances Bula's article above - if true, it's amazing that Vancouver's transit system is moving as many people each day right now as Toronto's. Anways, here are some volume estimates, provided by Translink and City on Feb 17, from her post:



Source: francesbula.com

I think our Olympics skytrain ridership is still lower than Toronto's weekdays. But certainly higher than that of Toronto subway's weekends ridership.

C-Line ridership was already above 220,000 by Tuesday. Yesterday (Friday) must be even higher given the fact that the staff had to use "paper fare box" at some station, and Waterfront station situation further worsened.

[The_Henry_Man]

Originally Posted by CLC

I think our Olympics skytrain ridership is still lower than Toronto's weekdays. But certainly higher than that of Toronto subway's weekends ridership.

C-Line ridership was already above 220,000 by Tuesday. Yesterday (Friday) must be even higher given the fact that the staff had to use "paper fare box" at some station, and Waterfront station situation further worsened.

Wait. When you are referring to Waterfront Station, do you mean just the C-Line one, or both the C-Line and E/M-Lines? (I don't know because I'm currently not in Van right now)

[CLC]

^ The waterfront hub was swarmed with people (afternoon to evening time). From what I could tell, only C-Line has the lineup.

Large crowds shatter transit ridership records

VANCOUVER/CKNW(AM980)
Tyler Noble Email news tips to Tyler
2/20/2010

It appears Friday may have been the all-time busiest day on Metro Vancouver's transit system.

TransLink's Ken Hardie says there were delays on most bus routes serving Downtown Vancouver along with waits of half an hour or more at some of the downtown SkyTrain stations in the late evening.

"The way the crowds built in the downtown area, steadily all day with heavy loads coming into town on SkyTrain even after 7 o'clock in the evening."

Hardie says the Canada Line carried nearly 250,000 passengers on Thursday and he expects that number will be even higher once ridership numbers for Friday are finalized.

[The_Henry_Man]

Originally Posted by CLC

^ The waterfront hub was swarmed with people (afternoon to evening time). From what I could tell, only C-Line has the lineup.

Just noticed a comment at Frances Bula blog mentioned 250,000+ number for C-Line yesterday.

I'm concerned whether the shorter platforms (sorry to dig up this again lol) for the C-Line Waterfront is causing this lineup or is it just the overzealous attendants and their crowd control is the cause of this. What do you think of that?

[CLC]

Originally Posted by The_Henry_Man

I'm concerned whether the shorter platforms (sorry to dig up this again lol) for the C-Line Waterfront is causing this lineup or is it just the overzealous attendants and their crowd control is the cause of this. What do you think of that?

C-Line platforms being too small must be the main factor. I don't have exact link to which post, but Jhenifer@Buzzerblog stated that controlled access is needed because otherwise people get off the train has nowhere to go if the platform is completely filled.

[The_Henry_Man]

Originally Posted by CLC

C-Line platforms being too small must be the main factor. I don't have exact link to which post, but Jhenifer@Buzzerblog stated that controlled access is needed because otherwise people get off the train has nowhere to go if the platform is completely filled.

I guess based one this, we can now extrapolate much capacity the C-Line is able to handle without any significant lineups like there is currently at 2min/4min intervals.

This is my guess of the capacity of the C-Line without any significantly long lineups (in passengers per day):
- 150,000 in 3min/6min freq (with max 14 cars online at any time)
- 240,000 in 2min/4min freq (with max 18 cars online at any time)
- 330,000 in 90s/3min freq with all platforms extended to 50m and extra Rotem trains bought, still with 2-car trains (over 20 cars online at any time)

What's the max frequency on the C-Line so far for the past 2-3 days during the Olympics? Is the peak frequency implemented for the entire day now on the C-Line?

Looks like the ultimate crush load capacity for the C-Line is around 350,000-400,000, with all platforms extended, extra cars in place, and the 3rd car attached to the 2-car trains. The C-Line really should've been built starting at 60m and with the ability to extend to 80m. Sigh.....I know this is drilled over and over again. At least the C-Line is built rather than never. Arggghh. I hate the people who were railing against the C-Line during the process!!!

[mrjauk]

Originally Posted by The_Henry_Man

I'm concerned whether the shorter platforms (sorry to dig up this again lol) for the C-Line Waterfront is causing this lineup or is it just the overzealous attendants and their crowd control is the cause of this. What do you think of that?

The platform lengths have nothing to do with it. I got on the C-Line at Waterfront station yesterday afternoon at about 5:00 (by the way, I walked onto the platform via the entrance at Granville and Hastings without a problem). My sense was that they were holding people back because they didn't want the trains to leave the station full.

This way, they would ensure that there was room at subsequent stations, which I think is a good idea.

[GeeCee]

Originally Posted by jsbertram

which seems to contradict your previous post:



(my emphasis)

Oops. I meant to say that the majority of the E and M lines are elevated.. it's been a busy week.

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by The_Henry_Man

I'm concerned whether the shorter platforms (sorry to dig up this again lol) for the C-Line Waterfront is causing this lineup or is it just the overzealous attendants and their crowd control is the cause of this. What do you think of that?

It's a combination of both. As well, you could argue some platforms aren't wide enough and the locations of the escalators and staircases lead people to bunch up....not very user friendly.

I'm quite sick of the attendants treating this line like a Disneyland ride.

[nname]

Originally Posted by The_Henry_Man

I guess based one this, we can now extrapolate much capacity the C-Line is able to handle without any significant lineups like there is currently at 2min/4min intervals.

This is my guess of the capacity of the C-Line without any significantly long lineups (in passengers per day):
- 150,000 in 3min/6min freq (with max 14 cars online at any time)
- 240,000 in 2min/4min freq (with max 18 cars online at any time)
- 330,000 in 90s/3min freq with all platforms extended to 50m and extra Rotem trains bought, still with 2-car trains (over 20 cars online at any time)

Actually, with 14 trains, the frequency is 3.75min/7.5min; with 18 trains, 3min/6min.. when they put all 20 trains online, they can barely make 2.75min/5.5min (I actually timed it). To do 2min/4min, they'll require at least 26 trains.

[CLC]

Vancouver Sun update on today transportation:

The transit system was already packed at 8 a.m. today, with passengers on the Expo and Millennium Line already facing standing room only crowds as they headed downtown today to take advantage of the clear skies and good weather to check out the different national houses, Olympic events or free concerts.

Canada Line -- which has moved more than a quarter-million people in each of the last three days -- is already running its full complement of 20 trains. Bridgeport Station was extremely busy around 9:30 a.m. after two BC Ferries came in carrying in 1,400 passengers who were then taken by bus to the Canada Line station.

SkyTrain is running 55 trains, but those trains are longer and TransLink is also turning some trains back at Broadway-Commercial to ease some of the traffic crunch.

TransLink has put on special West Coast Express trains leaving Mission City today at 12:30, 2 p.m., 3:30 p.m., 5 p.m and 6:30 p.m., while SKyTrain continues to run rush-hour-level service throughout the day, and SeaBus will have three-boat service from 10 a.m. until midnight.

Five articulated buses and 11 40-foot coaches are also out at Tsawwassen to pick up ferry passengers, whole West Vancouver has seven buses to collect foot passengers at Horseshoe Bay.

TransLink warns the Broadway Corridor and routes going east-west in Vancouver will be exceptionally busy today, and spectators coming in on SkyTrain from Commercial-Broadway for events at BC Place and/or Canada Hockey Place should get off at Main Street-Science World station.

© Copyright (c) The Vancouver Sun

[hollywoodnorth]

From the Vancouver sun:

VANCOUVER – An Olympic Line streetcar collided with a vehicle at Moberly Road and Sixth Avenue in False Creek just before 11:30 p.m. Friday night.

Police officers and fire trucks are on scene according to neighbours. A helicopter has also been hovering around.

A neighbour who witnessed the aftermath of the crash said motorists haven’t adjusted to trains being back on the tracks.

“Since they put it in, the city had folks sitting at the crossing to get people to actually stop and they wouldn’t,” said Catherine Crough. “They would just mosey onto the tracks. There was a sense of entitlement and habit.”

The vehicle involved in the collision was towed away just after 12:00 a.m.

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/regiona...shut+down+after+crash/2589015/story.html

[CLC]

^

Like this comment:

anonymous
2:29 PM on February 20, 2010
YES I WAS ONE OF THE PASSENGERS!

I was in the streetcar when this happened. Kudos to the streetcar driver for reacting so quickly. The driver of the car was an id1ot who was completely unaware of his surrounding.

The streetcar had the right to go at the time when the car decided to sneak by. Lucky for him the streetcar doesn't go all that fast. As far as i know there were no injuries in the train...just a few complaints from some who were too lazy to walk! Small damages/dents on both vehicles but nothing major really.

Life goes on! Keep this party going.

[hollywoodnorth]

Originally Posted by CLC

^

Like this comment:

this just proves how RETARDED it would be if we have na LRT down Broadway.......Vancouver drivers suck enough let alone to introduce a "frogger" element to the mix.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frogger

[lightrail]

From the buzzer blog

- Canada Line broke the quarter million riders mark on Wednesday and Thursday. All 20 trains are running.

- Expo and Millenium running at rush capacity, including short-turns from downtown to Broadway-Commercial

- 5 articulated buses and 11 regular buses are meeting the ferries from Victoria - over 1000 foot passenger coming over (not sure if that's all on one Friday evening ferry, or several). Similar situation at Horseshoe Bay with the Blue bus having 6 regular and 1 articulated meeting the ferries from Nanaimo. Note that BC Ferries call Translink with foot passenger counts so Translink can have enough buses to meet the demand.

- And check out the picture of Robson Street from Friday night, now I understand why the trolley buses were routed completely off Robson (routing via Georgia now). Originally there was a bus only lane on Robson - but as you can see that would be impossible.


Source: Buzzer Blog

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by GeeCee

Oops. I meant to say that the majority of the E and M lines are elevated.. it's been a busy week.

I understand.
The Olympics have totally fouled up my week.
(in a good way)
Too much to see & do.
Will we be happy to be a 'sleepy city on he edge of the continent' again?

[CPE]

That is an awesome picture