Metro Vancouver Transit Discussion

[Hot Rod]

Seattle doesn't even belong in that list. sorry.

[cabotp]

Originally Posted by Hot Rod

Seattle doesn't even belong in that list. sorry.

I realize that. But that wasn't me who said it that was the reporter named Christiana.

I think all she was saying is that she has riden more than just the systems in Chicago and Vancouver.

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by Hot Rod

One thing I noticed in Washington DC area is they have Kiss N Rides, where people would drop off their husband or wife (hence the Kiss) and the spouce would board the metro. The Kiss N Ride only had a small parking lot, but the emphasis was on dropping off and picking up - and mostly it was HUGELY marketed.

King George has a kiss n' ride. Essentially, so does Braid, though they don't call it that. Lougheed has one in the form of the mall parking lot, too.

[GeeCee]

Up until very recently, there was a No Park & Ride sup near the SkyTrain entrance at Lougheed which is now gone. I wonder if the mall's management has decided to tolerate it for these two weeks?

[David]

I've been really impressed with the bus system so far through the Olympics. Over the weekend I was noticing tons of the "spare" buses they have been talking about relieving heavy traffic wherever there is a jam in the system, such as tons of "N" (North Vancouver" and "P" (Port Coquitlam) buses doing trolley routes like the 3, 7, 20, etc. Haven't encountered any major delays so far, and my WB express 160 last night was directed by 2010/translink people at Renfrew and Hastings to stop and let passengers on (usually its drop off only) to help relieve the crowds. In spite of the major delays I faced because of it, it definitely helped because the entire sidewalk along the PNE grounds was one huge mass of people waiting for buses. It was pretty insane to see.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Only a few of the stations are 50 meters now (Waterfront, Vancouver City Centre, Yaletown, Olympic Village and YVR I believe, but I could be wrong about 1 or 2 stations, so please feel free to correct me) the rest are all currently 40m

The remaining underground stations that are 40m essentially have all of the components in place for an easy extension of 5 meters on both sides. Currently there are knock out walls in place. As for the elevated stations I believe 5 meter extensions can also be easily added to the sides. So such ententions should be relatively affordable.

Thank you for those precisions. The fact that there are knock-out walls means it'll be a lot cheaper and easier to lengthen the platforms than if they were butting up against bedrock ! !

I feel a lot more at ease, and confident in, the Canada Line now, and its future possibilities. (wouldn't it be great to have one or two more high-speed, high-capacity lines like it in the city????) Maybe the UBC extension will fill that role going west, although I'd like to see another line somewhere also. (Just where I'm not sure at the moment, but the viability will present itself over time) Thanks again for your response.

[Zassk]

Let's wait and see how the Canada Line fares this afternoon, when there are curling fans leaving and arriving, hockey fans leaving and arriving, victory ceremony fans arriving, speedskating fans leaving, tourists and commuters all trying to use the line at the same time. :-) But I am cautiously optimistic.

[BCPhil]

Originally Posted by racc

The construction costs for the River Rock parkade were $33 million in 2006 dollars for 1,200 spaces or $27,500 per space. Add 3% per year for construction cost escalation and that would be around $30,000 per space not including land costs. So, not quite sure that would bring it to $40,000 per stall but it is getting close and still pretty expensive.
http://www.greatcanadiancasinos.com/files/GCGC-PDF/prinvestor/GCD_PRESS_12-18-06.pdf

Underground, in Richmond at least, would be much more expensive due to the high water level, which is why all parking structures are above ground.

Now agreed, if there is another reason to build the parkade, such as a destination casino, it kinda makes sense, but there won't be too many such opportunities.

But still, the cost of the entire parkade at Riverock is less than one KM of Skytrain track. For an extra $33 million it brought Canada Line "closer" and a possible option to use for thousands of people. And it's a lot cheaper than running multiple underused bus routes for decades. The thing to remember with the burbs is that almost ever single single family home will have at least one car, it's the nature of people who own SFH. By building Park n' Rides, you are bringing transit to them.

The part of the journey people hate the most is standing in the cold and rain at the foot of their street waiting for a bus that might but probably won't come on time, then ride it as it snakes through side streets to the station for 30 minutes on a trip that would normally take 5 minutes by car. So they take their car, the whole way.

I used to live in Coquitlam, not too far from Lougheed station. If you were not travelling right at rush hour, it was almost pointless to take transit downtown. The bus would come by every half hour, if lucky, and there was no place to park at Lougheed (legally), so I would just drive all the way. If you were heading out after hours to go downtown for a movie, dinner with friends, or a game, it was pointless to use any transit at all as just the bus portion (waiting and riding) was longer than the entire drive.

Now I live in White Rock. If I'm travelling inside commuter hours a bus comes by near my place that takes me straight to Bridgeport. Outside of rush hour, no such luck, it takes at the minimum an hour to get to Bridgeport with a transfer, that's how long it takes to drive to downtown. But I have another option, to drive to Bridgeport and use the PnR. It takes about 1/2 hour and it's all freeway speeds to get to bridgeport. Then, where congestion and stop and go driving begins I transfer to Canada Line at a very reasonable price. When you compare it to the time it takes to find a spot mid day downtown and the cost of the spot and gas for stop and go driving, it's worth it to park at the PnR.

If you can position PnR in places where they can drive a short distance, then take transit around congested parts, they will take it. You might criticize C-Train for having ugly sprawling PnRs around their stations, but IT WORKS! They have the highest ridership for LRT in North America because of that.

If building a PnR for basically the same price as a station, doubles the capacity and boardings at that station, then it sounds like a good investment to me for getting those cars off the congested roads downtown.

[BCPhil]

Originally Posted by Zassk

Let's wait and see how the Canada Line fares this afternoon, when there are curling fans leaving and arriving, hockey fans leaving and arriving, victory ceremony fans arriving, speedskating fans leaving, tourists and commuters all trying to use the line at the same time. :-) But I am cautiously optimistic.

I think a lot of times are staggered just enough to spread out the load. It will be constant volume, with some surges, but I don't think there are 2 city events that start or end at the same time.

1st Hockey starts when 1st curling ends, so all hockey fans will be IN by the time curling lets out. Speed skating starts during 1st hockey. 2nd Curling starts before 1st hockey lets out. 2nd hockey starts before curling ends, and the Victory ceremony starts before the end of the Hockey game.

I think the busiest time will be around 4pm when speed skating is supposed to end, and people are heading to the hockey game (but they should be there before speed skating lets out if they want to get through security before puck drop), and people are getting off work.

[ozonemania]

Ideally, park and rides would be built as intermediate structures with a planned life span. With the plan of replacing it with appropriate feeder routes and other transit oriented development. This might take 10-20 years. And this is a good reason to support park and rides.

[SpongeG]

yah we aren't going to see a huge expansion to trains and the system for a couple decades so put in something now that will get people to the system we have now - people who don't usually transit are using it and they may end up liking it for other times - a lot of people from the suburbs don't go downtown and they are rediscovering it

[twoNeurons]

Planned future development seems like a good way to do things.

Look at BC Place. It used to have massive parking around its perimeter. Not any more.

It's also a good way for Translink to speculate on future land-development while having land earn something in the meantime.

[racc]

Originally Posted by BCPhil

But still, the cost of the entire parkade at Riverock is less than one KM of Skytrain track. For an extra $33 million it brought Canada Line "closer" and a possible option to use for thousands of people. And it's a lot cheaper than running multiple underused bus routes for decades. The thing to remember with the burbs is that almost ever single single family home will have at least one car, it's the nature of people who own SFH. By building Park n' Rides, you are bringing transit to them.

The part of the journey people hate the most is standing in the cold and rain at the foot of their street waiting for a bus that might but probably won't come on time, then ride it as it snakes through side streets to the station for 30 minutes on a trip that would normally take 5 minutes by car. So they take their car, the whole way.

I used to live in Coquitlam, not too far from Lougheed station. If you were not travelling right at rush hour, it was almost pointless to take transit downtown. The bus would come by every half hour, if lucky, and there was no place to park at Lougheed (legally), so I would just drive all the way. If you were heading out after hours to go downtown for a movie, dinner with friends, or a game, it was pointless to use any transit at all as just the bus portion (waiting and riding) was longer than the entire drive.

Now I live in White Rock. If I'm travelling inside commuter hours a bus comes by near my place that takes me straight to Bridgeport. Outside of rush hour, no such luck, it takes at the minimum an hour to get to Bridgeport with a transfer, that's how long it takes to drive to downtown. But I have another option, to drive to Bridgeport and use the PnR. It takes about 1/2 hour and it's all freeway speeds to get to bridgeport. Then, where congestion and stop and go driving begins I transfer to Canada Line at a very reasonable price. When you compare it to the time it takes to find a spot mid day downtown and the cost of the spot and gas for stop and go driving, it's worth it to park at the PnR.

If you can position PnR in places where they can drive a short distance, then take transit around congested parts, they will take it. You might criticize C-Train for having ugly sprawling PnRs around their stations, but IT WORKS! They have the highest ridership for LRT in North America because of that.

If building a PnR for basically the same price as a station, doubles the capacity and boardings at that station, then it sounds like a good investment to me for getting those cars off the congested roads downtown.

Do the math and it just doesn't work out. For $33 million you only get an additional 1,200 people (2,400 boardings per day). If the 50,000 people (100,000 boardings) who used the Canada Line all used park and rides, the cost would be $1.5 billion, almost the cost of the entire line. Parking and riding is just not a viable mass transportation option, it is too expensive. The $33 million could, for example, pay for 3km of streetcar feeding Canada Line Stations. The Olympic Line, which cost only around $10 million, is getting 15,000 passengers per day.

By the time you add the financing and operating costs of a parkade, the cost per day is between $10 and $15 dollars. I suspect few people would pay that much and it would be a poor investment of public dollars.

[SpongeG]

they should be free like in portland or 42 like at scott road if they wanna charge

they can do retail on the bottom to help offset costs at many of the locations - braid could use some retail

we're not talking loads of them but at least 2 in addition to the one at scott road

[BCPhil]

Originally Posted by racc

Do the math and it just doesn't work out. For $33 million you only get an additional 1,200 people (2,400 boardings per day). If the 50,000 people (100,000 boardings) who used the Canada Line all used park and rides, the cost would be $1.5 billion, almost the cost of the entire line. Parking and riding is just not a viable mass transportation option, it is too expensive. The $33 million could, for example, pay for 3km of streetcar feeding Canada Line Stations. The Olympic Line, which cost only around $10 million, is getting 15,000 passengers per day.

By the time you add the financing and operating costs of a parkade, the cost per day is between $10 and $15 dollars. I suspect few people would pay that much and it would be a poor investment of public dollars.

I think there is actually almost 1500 spaces in the Bridgeport Parkade, but some of the space is reserved for the casino, so the park and ride is considered 1200.

But the cost is supplementing the use of the station. That 50,000 people using Canada line, divided by 16 stations is 3,125 people per station average. Adding another 1500 people to a station's use would increase that single stations usage by at least 33%.

Using the same money to build 3 km of streetcar in the burbs won't have the same impact as it does in city locations like Vancouver. The population extends around Coquitlam center 360 degrees for many KM, mostly in detached SFH.

The Olympic line is in a super dense urban core, currently shuttling people between 2 super busy locations. It's a huge success for that usage, but in Coquitlam would be a gigantic waste of money because 3km of it would hardly pass by enough homes to generate more usage than a bus line.

As well, the Olympic line cost almost $10 million for almost 2km of single way track. So about $10 million per km of double track, in an existing, segregated, reserved ROW. Building on roads in the burbs would cost at least twice as much, so we would be lucky if $40 million could get us 2km of track and trains in Coquitlam. That would hardly generate the 1500 riders that a parkade for the same price could in such a sparse area.

As well, the idea of a parkade is more for far travelling passengers, those beyond a simple 4 or 5km distance where its easy to provide bus service. Like people coming in from Port Coquitlam, Pitt Meadows, or further. We don't need park and rides in every station, just key locations for people coming a long distance, where bus service is non existent, to park and take transit through the urban core, getting their car off busy roads.

[Hot Rod]

Originally Posted by cabotp

I realize that. But that wasn't me who said it that was the reporter named Christiana.

I think all she was saying is that she has riden more than just the systems in Chicago and Vancouver.

I know cabot, I was just making an obvious statement about Christiana's list.

[CLC]

Sail ‘n’ Ride! TransLink DayPasses to be sold on BC Ferries

Visitors to the Lower Mainland arriving from Vancouver Island on BC Ferries now have easier access to the ease and convenience of the TransLink system. By Thursday, February 18, DayPasses will be sold in the gift shops on all ferries that may sail to Tsawwassen or Horseshoe Bay.

DayPasses cost $9 for adults and $7 for seniors, children aged 5 to 13 and students with a valid GoCard. They offer unlimited travel for the entire service day on Coast Mountain and West Vancouver buses, SeaBus and SkyTrain and can be applied towards the purchase of West Coast Express tickets.

The #250 Horseshoe Bay/Vancouver and #257 Horseshoe Bay/Vancouver Express provide service from Horseshoe Bay directly into downtown Vancouver, while the #620 Tsawwassen/Bridgeport Station runs hourly from the Tsawwassen Terminal to the Canada Line for rapid transit into downtown (with half-hour service from April 20 to September 7).


DayPasses will be sold from now until September, and then TransLink and BC Ferries will decide whether to continue the sales.

[lightrail]

Visitors to the Lower Mainland arriving from Vancouver Island on BC Ferries now have easier access to the ease and convenience of the TransLink system. By Thursday, February 18, DayPasses will be sold in the gift shops on all ferries that may sail to Tsawwassen or Horseshoe Bay.

DayPasses cost $9 for adults and $7 for seniors, children aged 5 to 13 and students with a valid GoCard. They offer unlimited travel for the entire service day on Coast Mountain and West Vancouver buses, SeaBus and SkyTrain and can be applied towards the purchase of West Coast Express tickets.

The #250 Horseshoe Bay/Vancouver and #257 Horseshoe Bay/Vancouver Express provide service from Horseshoe Bay directly into downtown Vancouver, while the #620 Tsawwassen/Bridgeport Station runs hourly from the Tsawwassen Terminal to the Canada Line for rapid transit into downtown (with half-hour service from April 20 to September 7).


DayPasses will be sold from now until September, and then TransLink and BC Ferries will decide whether to continue the sales.

Missing from this story is that BC Ferries used to sell daypasses on the ferries until May of this year when Translink told them to stop. No reason given. As a person arriving from Vancouver Island, I was annoyed at having to pay a fare to Bridgeport and then buy a daypass there. So good on them for putting it back in place, but thumbs down to the idiots for cancelling it in the first place.

Maybe they'll impose an add-fare next.

[Millennium2002]

I find it very disappointing that they're gouging money off visitors and infrequent travellers. We should be doing the opposite... making the system easy and accessible to use for newcomers.

[CLC]

Interesting video of King Ed station lineup yesterday found on Flickr:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/balleyne/4364470762/