Metro Vancouver Transit Discussion

[BCPhil]

What I find amazing is the "Please practice taking transit" is actually having an effect. People actually listen.

I wonder how many, even if a small number, have been converted after being encouraged to take Transit for the first time. Maybe Translink every few months should have "Free Friday" just to get people on to transit as a promotion to attract new riders.

Or maybe even if they had a fare reduction people would go, "oh it's cheaper now, I'll do that".

I remember years ago when movie ticket prices went up from $6 to over $14 in the span of about a year. It killed their business, but then they lowered them to $9.99 and theaters have been busy ever since. Translink should consider a fare roll back to see what would happen.

If a good 20,000 extra people are encouraged to take the Canada Line just with the words pretty please, making it cheaper might get them to stay.

[NetMapel]

Sounds good except Translink is in bad financial health, right ? I wish they could lower public transit prices.

[invisibleairwaves]

The 502 was full before we even left Cloverdale this morning. B-line, LRT, WCE-style rail, SkyTrain...I don't even care anymore, we need something with more capacity ASAP.

Really, transit in Surrey and Langley is appalling. If you look at a transit map you can see that wherever the SkyTrain ends, there's some kind of high-capacity system that takes people to the outlying areas.....except Surrey and Langley. West Van has articulated buses. North Van has articulated buses. UBC and south Vancouver have articulated buses. Tsawwassen and Ladner have articulated buses. Coquitlam, Port Moody, and PoCo have articulated buses and the WCE. Surrey and Langley? Packed, unreliable, infrequent, normal-size bus service. I'm certainly not against SkyTrain on Broadway, but after taking transit out here for a while, you start to understand why these RFV guys are so passionate about getting some attention directed to the south of the Fraser. This Zweisystem guy is a nut, but he hasn't entirely missed the point.

[deasine]

Wait... I haven't seen an articulated bus in North Vancouver, Tsawassen or Ladner (other than 620 which really doesn't serve the community that well).

[invisibleairwaves]

Originally Posted by deasine

Wait... I haven't seen an articulated bus in North Vancouver, Tsawassen or Ladner (other than 620 which really doesn't serve the community that well).

Really? Could've sworn I saw some articulated buses downtown that were going to Lonsdale...and there's also the SeaBus, but I've never taken it so I can't really comment on its capacity...but my point remains that Surrey and Langley are disproportionately ill-served by transit once you get past the SkyTrain.

[nname]

Originally Posted by invisibleairwaves

West Van has articulated buses.

Only the #257 have them, and the frequency isn't all that great... (every 30 minutes?)

Originally Posted by invisibleairwaves

North Van has articulated buses.

No, they have none.

Originally Posted by invisibleairwaves

Tsawwassen and Ladner have articulated buses.

Summer only, and they're only run once every hour to connect with the Ferry

Originally Posted by invisibleairwaves

Coquitlam, Port Moody, and PoCo have articulated buses and the WCE.

The articulated buses are now mainly run on SFU routes (eg. 143, 145, and sometimes on 135). 97 is nothing but glorified bus route using standard 40ft bus, and if you compare the schedule, it runs pretty much as frequent as 320, 321, and 502.

Originally Posted by invisibleairwaves

Packed, unreliable, infrequent, normal-size bus service.

What we're dealing here in the Tri-Cities is packed community shuttles.

I would say putting articulated bus on the 320, 321, and 502 would do in the short term.. they even have the garage ready for them, and some buses to spare, but just not enough money to run them.. so now they'll have to sit in the storage to collect dust...

[nname]

Originally Posted by mr.x

With 18 trains, I gotta wonder...what's the total daily load the Canada Line is able to carry?

120,000 * 18 / 14 = 154,300

[invisibleairwaves]

So what you're saying is that, apart from North Van (guess I was mistaken there, my bad), the other areas have some longer buses, even if it isn't enough. My point is that Surrey has none. As for the TriCities, you're getting SkyTrain in a few years and I'm sure the local bus network will improve with that. There are no such promises south of the Fraser. I'm not saying everywhere else is totally wonderful, but it's just a disaster here.

[deasine]

Originally Posted by invisibleairwaves

So what you're saying is that, apart from North Van (guess I was mistaken there, my bad), the other areas have some longer buses, even if it isn't enough. My point is that Surrey has none. As for the TriCities, you're getting SkyTrain in a few years and I'm sure the local bus network will improve with that. There are no such promises south of the Fraser. I'm not saying everywhere else is totally wonderful, but it's just a disaster here.

You are getting an Expo Line Extension along with a few RapidBus routes, not that they are coming soon enough.

[Stingray2004]

Originally Posted by CLC

News release:Canada Line reaches new record: 120,000 trips recorded on Friday, January 22

Interesting. I've been kinda wondering why I'm able to breeze along Hwy 99/Oak Street and be at the corner of Seymour/West Georgia by 9 am in under 40 minutes over the past few months from a White Rock starting point. Absolutely no back-ups anywhere, which has been unusual.

Hmmmmmm... could it actually be that the Canada Line is taking some of the load off vehicular traffic?

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by nname

Only the #257 have them, and the frequency isn't all that great... (every 30 minutes?)


No, they have none.


Summer only, and they're only run once every hour to connect with the Ferry


The articulated buses are now mainly run on SFU routes (eg. 143, 145, and sometimes on 135). 97 is nothing but glorified bus route using standard 40ft bus, and if you compare the schedule, it runs pretty much as frequent as 320, 321, and 502.


What we're dealing here in the Tri-Cities is packed community shuttles.

I would say putting articulated bus on the 320, 321, and 502 would do in the short term.. they even have the garage ready for them, and some buses to spare, but just not enough money to run them.. so now they'll have to sit in the storage to collect dust...

In Maple Ridge and Pitt Meadows the bus that goes from Haney Place to Coquitlam Centre is an articulated bus. I think it is the 722, i am not good with bus numbers.

[nname]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

In Maple Ridge and Pitt Meadows the bus that goes from Haney Place to Coquitlam Centre is an articulated bus. I think it is the 722, i am not good with bus numbers.

The #701 have some articulated bus, not because the ridership warrens it, but I guess it is for cost reduction. For instance, after 5pm where most student left SFU, some #143 that arrived at Coquitlam Station swap bus with the #701, so the 60ft #143 becomes the #701 and the 40ft #701 becomes the #143. Most of the #143 in the evening is actually 40ft bus, and the articulated bus on the #701 stays on the road for a few more hours until the frequency drops from every 15 to every 30 minutes. And AFAIK, the #701 also swaps with the #160, which run some articulated buses also.

[The_Henry_Man]

Originally Posted by nname

120,000 * 18 / 14 = 154,300

Does this calculation take into the account of the increase of the train frequencies? If it doesn't, then looks like it potentially can carry up to 180,000 per day at frequencies of 90s on the main branch and 3min on the YVR/Richmond spurs. I suppose if there' 18 trains in service simultaneously, the C-Line's train frequency should be around 2-3min (main branch)/4-6min (YVR-Richmond)?

I think the C-Line definitely has the capacity and capability to absorb 200,000 riders per day, when extra trains are acquired in the future and platforms expanded to 50min for all stations.

[nname]

Originally Posted by The_Henry_Man

Does this calculation take into the account of the increase of the train frequencies? If it doesn't, then looks like it potentially can carry up to 180,000 per day at frequencies of 90s on the main branch and 3min on the YVR/Richmond spurs. I suppose if there' 18 trains in service simultaneously, the C-Line's train frequency should be around 2-3min (main branch)/4-6min (YVR-Richmond)?

I think the C-Line definitely has the capacity and capability to absorb 200,000 riders per day, when extra trains are acquired in the future and platforms expanded to 50min for all stations.

When all 18 trains in service, it can run exactly every 3 minutes (up from 3.75min) for the main line and every 6 minutes (up from 7.5min) on the branches.

Canada Line is only running at 5300pphpd right now, and its able to carry 120,000 a day. If it is running at the ultimate capacity of 15,000pphpd, it would be able to carry about 340,000 a day. This is with 3 cars train running every 2 minutes on the main line. I don't think it can achieve 90s headway, but suppose it can, then it would be able to carry 425,000 for 3 cars train.

[The_Henry_Man]

Originally Posted by nname

When all 18 trains in service, it can run exactly every 3 minutes (up from 3.75min) for the main line and every 6 minutes (up from 7.5min) on the branches.

Canada Line is only running at 5300pphpd right now, and its able to carry 120,000 a day. If it is running at the ultimate capacity of 15,000pphpd, it would be able to carry about 340,000 a day. This is with 3 cars train running every 2 minutes on the main line.

That's not too bad then. The C-Line still has tons of capacity left, at almost 3 times the current capacity right now!! I just wish those platforms can be extended just a bit further at 60m, as opposed to 50m, so that the entire 3-car train can fit just perfectly on the platforms!!

So (I've heard) the Expo/Millennium Lines have an ultimate capacity of 20,000pphpd?

[CLC]

isn't one of the factor in calculation is how many stops C-line customers on average hop on?

For me, I often use it for only 3 stops: Langara <-> Aberdeen or Langara<->Broadway

[teriyaki]

Originally Posted by The_Henry_Man

That's not too bad then. The C-Line still has tons of capacity left, at almost 3 times the current capacity right now!! I just wish those platforms can be extended just a bit further at 60m, as opposed to 50m, so that the entire 3-car train can fit just perfectly on the platforms!!

So (I've heard) the Expo/Millennium Lines have an ultimate capacity of 20,000pphpd?

Its impossible (well, not entirely, but definitely not financially feasable) to extend to 60m because of the grade of the tunnels.

I don't know how you could say they could fit 3x the capacity right now. Everytime I've boarded the train, its been standing room only right from the get-go (Brighouse Station).

[nname]

Originally Posted by The_Henry_Man

That's not too bad then. The C-Line still has tons of capacity left, at almost 3 times the current capacity right now!! I just wish those platforms can be extended just a bit further at 60m, as opposed to 50m, so that the entire 3-car train can fit just perfectly on the platforms!!

So (I've heard) the Expo/Millennium Lines have an ultimate capacity of 20,000pphpd?

The design capacity is 25,000pphpd, but one of the recent report states that if they buy some 3-cars MKIIs and run 5-cars trains (2+3) every 78 seconds, it could reach 30,000pphpd without platform expansion.

Originally Posted by teriyaki

I don't know how you could say they could fit 3x the capacity right now. Everytime I've boarded the train, its been standing room only right from the get-go (Brighouse Station).

Expand the platform to 50m, and run longer trains as frequent as the Expo Line, then there would be close to 3x the capacity (and that's really the design of the system...)

[Metro-One]

3X the capacity could be done on the Canada line, I believe frequency can be increased by 2.5 times the current at peaks, then the 10 m expansion can be done (relatively cheaply because the stations are designed for it) and we can insert the third cars into the trains.

So generally, we can have 3 car trains arriving possibly slightly less than every 90 seconds, compared to the current 2 car trains every 4 minutes. So that is indeed, quite a large capacity increase available on the line.

[gillty]

If you can't get people on and off the trains quickly, it wont matter what capacity the trains are.