Saskatoon Construction

[madsad]

Originally Posted by dsim249

I've never had any problems with our public transit. But then again, I only use it to get to and from the U of S occasionally. I'd be interested to hear the thoughts of someone who uses public transit with more reliance.

My thoughts about Stoon Tran? ... Well, since you asked:

They try to run the scheduling like Greyhound, general times that are not really accurately adhered to. Only this is a urban transit system, not an intercity bus line, and to be convenient, things need to be more precise. This hits home when you are standing at a stop in -46 C waiting for your bus, which you don't know if you've missed, or is catastrophically late.

The timetables are overly simplistic: they stay at the same headways and running times throughout the day, taking no heed of rush hour congestion and the resulting delays in service. Basically, every afternoon, the whole system falls apart and connections are useless. Running time needs to be added. Also the headways could be increased in peak hours. If Regina can manage to run bus routes at 20 minute headways, so can we. This is elementary transit planning, not rocket science... it just seems rather sloppy and lazy.

There seems to be gaps on operations. Firstly, the bus drivers treat departure times (particularly from the Downtown terminal) as mere suggestions of when to leave. They seem to not have enough layover (break) time, so they take it out of the running time then drive like hell to catch up. They may be generally mum about this, or it could be some stupid game of "bus schedule chicken", I don't know... either way, if they feel the layover time is insufficient, they need to address this through proper channels.

Also, there is next to no communications coming from transit. Every time there is a detour, it is never posted on the website. In fact, it has been the U of S Facilities Dept handling detour communications for transit on the uni campus. You are lucky if you get a garbage bag over the bus stop sign to alert you of the detour. If it your stop is bagged, you should probably ignore it anyway because they like to randomly bag stops when they are, in fact, in operation.

On the whole, I feel the staff think of their jobs as a social service, which yes, it is in many ways. But if "because thats the way we've always done it" encompasses their efforts and aspirations regarding public transit in Saskatoon, it will never, ever be a viable travel alternative to those who have a choice in travel mode (and even for some who don't).

On the positive side, I gather the new manager is quite progressive and genuinely excited about improving transit. Also, the route system is reasonably well designed. Even though routes may be hourly, you usually have more than one options to get from A to B, if you are willing to walk a little further.

They are doing what they can with a taxpayer-base that is largely hostile to funding a proper level of transit service, but there are many areas where things could be changed without additional funding. There's more festering, but I'll shut up now.

[socialisthorde]

Well said madsad. I hope you will send those comments to city hall. I don't use transit a lot here (mostly walk and bike), but I think your comments reflect similar issues around many aspects of how the city is run. People designing and running many things are not users. The majority of the city staff and councillors live in the suburbs and drive to work. They don't really understand what it means to try and live a more sustainable life in the inner city and travel in ways other than a car. News from elsewhere tells them that these things are important, and so they pay lip service and occasionally make a few small changes in one area or another (e.g. the new neighborhood which is supposed to be more sustainable), but these attempts are typically disjointed because the people implementing them don't fully understand how they play out in real life. For example the new neighborhood looks great in and of itself for alternative transportation, but it will still have limited access in and out and will be surrounded by freeways, which are largely impassible to pedestrians and cyclists. As a pedestrian, I wonder if anyone in the planning department or city council ever walks anywhere, especially in the winter. Snow gets piled across crosswalk accesses, crosswalks are the slippery, wait for green crossing lights is too long and crossing times to short, just to name a few issues.

If everyone who plans these things were using them daily, I strongly suspect they would be better. WHen you do register a comment or complaint (I have), even in the most friendly of terms, the general response is "that is how we have always done it and no one else complains." So it is a vicious circle, few people do anything out of the norm (such as walk), so few resources are dedicated to walking and walking becomes more unpleasant, so fewer people do it. I'm sure the same applies to transit, cycling and many other things which would, if widely taken up bring huge improvements to the city.

With regard to transit, it does look to me as a casual user that it is designed as almost a social service and therefore not a realistic option for practical day to day use by someone with a middle class lifestyle. Maybe if they would provide councillors with a free bus pass and no parking pass, transit would start to look different

<end rant>

[macca]

I understand what you're saying socialisthorde, and I certinaly agree that this City often attempts to please everyone with new initiatives, and ends up with planning and design reflective of that type of effort (meaning no one gets what they want and 'new urbanist' principles are half-implemented and are largely unsuccessful).

For what it's worth, however, the recently retired head of planning with the city walked 45+ minutes to work everyday. There are others who may be able to speak to this better than I can, but the will of (some/most) of the planning staff is there, as well as with some administration and Council. Council is still beholden to the people, and the City's land branch is beholden to the market, a market they still see as wanting low density, single use neighbourhoods designed for cars. Truly progressive design and planning (urban design, transit planning, etc) would likely cause a backlash that would threaten re-election.

For more information, please watch the hit HBO series "The Wire".

[prairieguy]

My heart also sank when I read that Northridge was the selected developer for the warehouse. My first choice was by far the SHIFT design with Northridge last among the 3 proposals. Could Northridges design be any more boring and uninspiring? SHIFT, to me, encorporated the perfect balance between heritage preservation and introduction of modern/green aspects. It was attractive, functional and visionary...a term that our city admin seems to be lacking most of the time. I understand that there must be some planners on the same page as most of us on this forum, but they must not be in positions of influence or decision making, as we seem to always end up with the safe and bland.

[Ruckus]

Originally Posted by swilley

Northridge is a major developer for the city. I wonder if there was any politics with the decision. Too bad.

I hope the City isn't setting up North Ridge as the front runner for redeveloping the city yards. How awful would that be

[swilley]

^^ I can see the slogans now... "Bringing Briarwood to the heart of downtown!"

[socialisthorde]

Yes macca, I probably made some unwarratned assumptions and generalizations. I'm prone to that. I apologize if I offended anyone, I know most are trying to do their best at city hall.

Having grown up here and moved away for a long period, it just gets really frustrating to see how slowly things change, when the rest of the world seems to be moving ahead at twice the pace. For heaven's sake, we are still debating city wide recycling while Edmonton (which is not known for forward thinking) has mass composting. We are still building box stores at a frightening pace, while many places are rethinking the whole idea.

Anyone heard about the Woodwards development in Vancouver? Brilliant developments like that make me feel like we are living in the 19th century here. It also tells me that public opinion can be guided and shaped by civic decision makers. There was a ton of political wrangling over that development, but the administration plugged ahead and now almost everyone is lauding it as a great development. Mixed social and high end market housing, with retail built in and a park on the roof, located a few blocks from downtown. ahhh..... Sorry, I know I am preaching to the converted.

[Ruckus]

Originally Posted by socialisthorde

Yes macca, I probably made some unwarratned assumptions and generalizations. I'm prone to that. I apologize if I offended anyone, I know most are trying to do their best at city hall.

Having grown up here and moved away for a long period, it just gets really frustrating to see how slowly things change, when the rest of the world seems to be moving ahead at twice the pace. For heaven's sake, we are still debating city wide recycling while Edmonton (which is not known for forward thinking) has mass composting. We are still building box stores at a frightening pace, while many places are rethinking the whole idea.

Anyone heard about the Woodwards development in Vancouver? Brilliant developments like that make me feel like we are living in the 19th century here. It also tells me that public opinion can be guided and shaped by civic decision makers. There was a ton of political wrangling over that development, but the administration plugged ahead and now almost everyone is lauding it as a great development. Mixed social and high end market housing, with retail built in and a park on the roof, located a few blocks from downtown. ahhh..... Sorry, I know I am preaching to the converted.

I just heard about Woodwards this past Sunday (Radio One's Sunday Edition devoted a segment to it). I was in Vancouver a couple weeks ago and wish I would have known about it before (though I did visit East/West Hastings).

Unfortunately, a Woodwards-type development in Saskatoon would also need Ian Gillespie-type developer to support it. Who is Saskatoon's Ian Gillespie?

[milanboy]

Originally Posted by Ruckus

Unfortunately, a Woodwards-type development in Saskatoon would also need Ian Gillespie-type developer to support it. Who is Saskatoon's Ian Gillespie?

I agree. It is still going to be a number of years before we start seeing such visionary projects in Saskatoon. I think the closest we have to Ian Gillespie in Saskatoon is Ken Ach, and even he seems to be getting more and more conservative recently.

We can only hope that the new Children's Hospital might do something daring ... but somehow I just don't expect anything visionary.

Once the new Aboriginal Centre is built on the U of S campus, we may have something visionary ... but there is so much chance yet to spoil that one.

[milanboy]

These renderings of the planned Aboriginal student centre on the U of S campus may have been posted before but they may give some hope to those of us depressed about the lack of innovation in the city building industry. Use this link to see those renderings:

Gordon Oakes—Red Bear Student Centre

[Ruckus]

Originally Posted by milanboy

I agree. It is still going to be a number of years before we start seeing such visionary projects in Saskatoon. I think the closest we have to Ian Gillespie in Saskatoon is Ken Ach, and even he seems to be getting more and more conservative recently.

We can only hope that the new Children's Hospital might do something daring ... but somehow I just don't expect anything visionary.

Once the new Aboriginal Centre is built on the U of S campus, we may have something visionary ... but there is so much chance yet to spoil that one.

I wouldn't be surprised if that project is pushed further back due to the focus on increasing student residences (currently under construction).

I'm with you on the Children's Hospital. Although I'm hopeful they'll try to make it more inviting than the Mental Health Centre (and RUH for that matter). Hospitals are not traditionally seen as the kind of project to push the design boundary with...though there are exceptions, to some degree.

The Alberta's Children Hospital incorporation of primary colors is very unorthodox when one considers contemporary hospital design (Saskatoon City Hospital for example). I don't consider ACH to be attractive, but the intent of the design is to make a child's visit to the hospital less alienating and more hospitable (it looks like a large McDonalds or BK IMO).

Of course, I don't advocate the SCH follow the leader(s)...easier said than done


Source

Beyond the Aboriginal Student's Centre and Children's Hospital, potential for unique (relatively) architecture to emerge in Saskatoon over the next few years also applies to the Art Gallery of Saskatchewan and the Clarion Project (performing arts centre on the College Quarter lands).

EDIT: The civic square/library/transit terminal project also has potential. How can we create a harmonious, complementary relationship between each destination? I feel all three components must be sited together, on one block (e.g. close 23rd and utilize the civic square as part of the transit terminal???...).

My sloppy Paint.NET skills allow me to communicate my ideas...can you tell how excited I am about this

[studentview]

Im all for the idea of mixed use development. Especially in the downtown core. The idea of live/work/play all within the same building is a great idea. The ecovillage is knocking out of the park. But putting a transit terminal underneath a library? Lets think about this one. No idea from my end what the city plans to do with less money and more plans on the books. They have held up the bus terminal by going back to the drawing board and the overcrowding of the library, the police station and city hall are all presenting them with problems. Like I said I think some space dowtown can be used more effectively then its present use but a bus terminal and a library go together like chinese food and chocolate pudding. doesnt work for me

[drm310]

Facelift for Broadway
Plan proposes public plaza, restrictions on building height

By David Hutton, The StarPhoenix
January 20, 2010 8:09 AM

A long-awaited plan for the Broadway district that includes a proposed nine-storey building height restriction, ideas to bring to life blighted back alleys and the creation of several large public plazas will be presented tonight.

The Broadway area has resisted such overarching plans for several years, often amid bitter neighbourhood disputes. Mark Bobyn, president of the Nutana Community Association, said given the history of false starts and public feuds, the report represents a "tremendous advancement" on what were once considered "untouchable issues."

"We were very fortunate to have this process take place because it was a bit unusual for Saskatoon to do it this way," Bobyn said. "It was an experiment and an innovative one and it has worked nearly flawlessly.

"It has gotten to a place that the last 20 years hasn't been able to."

The report, created by Toronto-based urban planners Planning Partnership, was the end result of two years of discussion among the community association, city hall, residents and the Broadway Business Improvement District, and marks the first time this type of district planning has been undertaken in Saskatoon.

The extensive document, titled Broadway 360, will be presented tonight at 6:30 p.m. at the Broadway Theatre. The recommendations are wide-ranging and include the transformation of the Five Corners area at Broadway Avenue and 12th Street into a publc plaza and the revival of alleys with store fronts, galleries and cafes.

"It would create a much safer setting back there and build on that very European style that's already part of Broadway," Bobyn said.

For several years, the process to change regulations governing the Broadway district raised sharp divisions between business owners and residents, who were split on issues such as parking, traffic congestion and height restrictions of new developments.

The Luxe, a high-end condominium development at Broadway and Ninth Street, was particularly contentious in 2006 when developers first proposed a building up to 17 storeys. Some residents and history buffs protested the demolition of a historical building on the site and said the new condos would be out of place with Broadway's historical character.

The development, which is nearing completion, is seven storeys, including 11/2 floors of retail space.

While the planing process leading to the new report has been successful, it remains "three-quarters of the way there," said Karl Miller of Meridian Developments, the builder behind the Luxe.

"The process started off with very good intentions," Miller said. "We said let's get through these issues and let's tackle them and let's try and settle these things once and for all. Where the report fell short is we didn't reach consensus on some issues."

"We're missing the last step and now what we're hoping is the city will take it through to that last step."

Miller said a divide remains over parking, which the report says is adequate with 1,500 spaces in the area but underutilized, and over the proposed height requirements on new developments.

The building height needs to be lowered from the current 26-storey standard, but "not to where the report is suggesting," he said.

High-density developments support "the little coffee shops and bakeries . . . and you also need parking because as the city is growing, you want to have places for (people) to park because as soon as people have a perception there's nowhere to park, they don't visit those neighbourhoods.

"If you put too many restrictions then developers will go somewhere else and the area won't regenerate, or else it will become stagnant and die," Miller said.

Harriet Richards, a member of Broadway Initiative for Livable Development, a grassroots group of area residents, said her main concern is tall buildings will overpower the streetscape and be inconsistent with the character of the neighbourhood.

The recommended height restrictions, which she'd like to see reduced to seven storeys, and the idea of making Broadway an architectural control district, though, are a step in the right direction, she said.

"I think that there is some resistance on the part of developers who don't want to have any restrictions based on their potential earnings and I have no sympathy for that," Richards said.

The next step will involve prioritizing which elements of the plan should be implemented first, said Gale Hagblom, executive director of the Broadway Business Improvement District.

"Not all of these can be achieved at one swoop," Hagblom said. "We have to look at what people want to see done first because each of them are of value."

[email protected]

RETHINKING BROADWAY AVENUE

- Bring life to back lanes: Alleyways along Broadway should be used for patios, cafes and stores with "distinctive paving" and light fixtures to attract pedestrians and improve safety.

- Create a public plaza: Five Corners at the intersection of Broadway Avenue and 12th Street should be transformed into a paved public plaza.

- Restrict heights: A nine-storey or 30-metre limit on the height of new buildings is recommended.

- Relocate community gardens: Move community garden from a vacant lot to a permanent location on the west end of 12th Street.

- Better manage parking: The parking supply on Broadway is adequate but many areas are underutilized with a need for more marked stalls and better use of back lanes.

- Integrate Oskayak High School: The report calls for enhancements to the school to create a building and grounds that is more integrated into the street.

To see the full report go to www.broadway360.ca.

© Copyright (c) The StarPhoenix

Source

[Ruckus]

Originally Posted by studentview

Im all for the idea of mixed use development. Especially in the downtown core. The idea of live/work/play all within the same building is a great idea. The ecovillage is knocking out of the park. But putting a transit terminal underneath a library? Lets think about this one. No idea from my end what the city plans to do with less money and more plans on the books. They have held up the bus terminal by going back to the drawing board and the overcrowding of the library, the police station and city hall are all presenting them with problems. Like I said I think some space dowtown can be used more effectively then its present use but a bus terminal and a library go together like chinese food and chocolate pudding. doesnt work for me

Hmmm, well, the terminal could be a stand alone structure. What is more important to me is making use of the civic plaza 24/7. The terminal could be shifted north and occupying perhaps a third, or quarter of the length of 23rd (this avoids producing a barrier between the library, civic plaza and city hall).

[kgc087]

For everyone that responded to my public transit comment would you be willing to let me submit your response with my letters, I feel very important points were made and will have more impact coming from a variety of people rather then just one person. With public pressure the city will shape itself up. I still think we should create a report outlining our ideal Saskatoon and show them that suburban areas are just making us like Calgary.

Aboriginal architecture is incredibly beautiful and modern, they focus on flowing lines b/c it is more natural and this could be something very unique that our city could harness. If we get an architectural school maybe this should be a main focus? It would be like Gaudi of Barcelona!

I'm very excited to see how Broadway will shape up. I submitted a letter over a year ago to Broadway 360 and had a very positive response with it. I would like to see architectural controls put in place to ensure the heritage and future innovation of the area. It's interesting how they refer to the design and feel of the area as "European", to me people like that feeling and urban design so much why don't we apply it to the rest of our city?

[circle33]

Originally Posted by kgc087

It's interesting how they refer to the design and feel of the area as "European", to me people like that feeling and urban design so much why don't we apply it to the rest of our city?

Because 'European design' and pulling a U-Turn in your F350 are not compatible.

[yeeg]

Originally Posted by Ruckus

The Alberta's Children Hospital incorporation of primary colors is very unorthodox when one considers contemporary hospital design (Saskatoon City Hospital for example). I don't consider ACH to be attractive, but the intent of the design is to make a child's visit to the hospital less alienating and more hospitable (it looks like a large McDonalds or BK IMO).

Its meant to look like Lego..Having been there about 60 times with my 4 year old, I can tell you from experience that he doesnt bat an eye when we go to the hospital.

[Ruckus]

Originally Posted by yeeg

Its meant to look like Lego..Having been there about 60 times with my 4 year old, I can tell you from experience that he doesnt bat an eye when we go to the hospital.

Yeah, there's definitely a resemblance...

[milanboy]

Originally Posted by studentview

Like I said I think some space dowtown can be used more effectively then its present use but a bus terminal and a library go together like chinese food and chocolate pudding. doesnt work for me

Hmmm ... the majority of public library users also use public transit. Seems like a good fit to me.

[lbird]

What the city has to do is stop spending money (like that ludicrous Shaw Centre). They are going to hike taxes 15% this year! With the bridge, bus terminal, police station and 25th extension they have more then enough to do. It's time for private development to take over in the downtown for a while. If that means things move a bit slower, so be it.