Metro Vancouver Transit Discussion

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by NetMapel

The Arbutus line needs to be preserved for some kind of long-distance heavy rail for the greater metro region. Also, I really don't see why people traveling to UBC needs to make an arbitrary connection from skytrain to street cars at Arbutus when they should ride skytrain all the way.

this idea give them 3 options - three transfer points

if people are stupid enough to live in surrey and attend UBC they desreve a 2 hour commute

[mrjauk]

Originally Posted by NetMapel

Yes indeed. Long distance travel needs to be fast and un-interupted. That's the only way people will take public transit for long-distance travel. Otherwise, people will just drive because it'll be significantly faster. People take the WCE, Canada Line and the old Skytrain line because they're fast enough that people are willing to forgo a little bit of time saved for the convenience of not worrying about parking and other headaches related to driving.

If they build a WCE for the south of Fraser region, I can guarantee you that it'll be a smash hit. Park and rides here are always parked to the max so imagine having a WCE instead.

I agree that we should try to bring in at least two more Commuter Rail lines as quickly as is feasible. One that begins somewhere in Langley and one that begins in White Rock. The Langley train would end up at the CN Terminal on Main Street while the White Rock train could go to Waterfront via Arbutus. I realize that the latter is more speculative at this point given the lack of infrastructure and that it would compete somewhat with the Canada Line, but within 10 years maybe?

[NetMapel]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

this idea give them 3 options - three transfer points

if people are stupid enough to live in surrey and attend UBC they desreve a 2 hour commute

What do you mean by 3 transfer points ? I just think, with post-secondaries as expensive as it is, it's not hard to imagine students choose to stay at home while they attend UBC. Nobody "deserves" to have to such a long commute, they just put up with it one way or another. Besides, skytrain all the way to UBC benefits everybody in the region who take the M-line, not just the people from Surrey.

Also, preserving the Arbutus line for a true heavy rail (WCE-style or HSR) is important for the growth of the Vancouver region as well. More people from further places can come to Vancouver to spend and work could only mean a more vibrant downtown.

Originally Posted by mrjauk

I agree that we should try to bring in at least two more Commuter Rail lines as quickly as is feasible. One that begins somewhere in Langley and one that begins in White Rock. The Langley train would end up at the CN Terminal on Main Street while the White Rock train could go to Waterfront via Arbutus. I realize that the latter is more speculative at this point given the lack of infrastructure and that it would compete somewhat with the Canada Line, but within 10 years maybe?

Yes, that's what I would like. I don't even think the line needs to go all the way to White Rock. I think a main station at South Surrey's Park and Ride is good enough. That place is always packed now.

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by NetMapel

Also, preserving the Arbutus line for a true heavy rail (WCE-style or HSR) is important for the growth of the Vancouver region as well. More people from further places can come to Vancouver to spend and work could only mean a more vibrant downtown.

I'm not sure Arbutus is the best route, but it's fairly convenient.

For intercity, a dedicated new route up 176th and then along the #1 highway and Grandview corridor would probably be more efficient and face less opposition.

This would also involve commuter trains and HSR to Chilliwack... and to Kelowna/Kamloops one day.

[Metro-One]

That is my dream there, to have the Kamloops / Kelowna areas linked to the lower mainland via HSR. That would better assert them as Vancouver's hinterland and not Calgary's. That area has had a huge Albertan influence of late, it needs a little more west coast influx to balance it out. Also, commuter rail should extend at least to Abbotsford south of the river in the Valley

Originally Posted by SpongeG

this idea give them 3 options - three transfer points

if people are stupid enough to live in surrey and attend UBC they desreve a 2 hour commute

Unfortunately not everyone's life is 2 dimensional. Many stay at home while at school because the cost of living on campus is far to high, others might choose to live close to work, while having to do a long commute to school. Life is generally not as simple as the "rail for the valley" people and the so called "transit experts" at UBC imagine it to be.

And most importantly, Merry Christmas everyone!

[NetMapel]

Well I did notice that there is the old train line that goes from Waterfront, Pacific Station, and follows the Millennium Line down to Surrey. That line can be used to go to both South Surrey, Langley and Abbotsford. The WCE line can go southward from to Abbotsford as well so both lines will meet there, thus setting Abbotsford up as a rising power in the region. From Abbotsford, then can go eastward o Kelowna and Kamloops separately. These lines need to be FAST though, in order for them to work.

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

That is my dream there, to have the Kamloops / Kelowna areas linked to the lower mainland via HSR. That would better assert them as Vancouver's hinterland and not Calgary's. That area has had a huge Albertan influence of late, it needs a little more west coast influx to balance it out. Also, commuter rail should extend at least to Abbotsford south of the river in the Valley






Unfortunately not everyone's life is 2 dimensional. Many stay at home while at school because the cost of living on campus is far to high, others might choose to live close to work, while having to do a long commute to school. Life is generally not as simple as the "rail for the valley" people and the so called "transit experts" at UBC imagine it to be.

And most importantly, Merry Christmas everyone!

well they 🞵🞵🞵🞵 no pity

[SpongeG]

and don't take it f'ing seriously

i'm just being as 🞵🞵🞵 play along

[dreambrother808]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

That is my dream there, to have the Kamloops / Kelowna areas linked to the lower mainland via HSR. That would better assert them as Vancouver's hinterland and not Calgary's. That area has had a huge Albertan influence of late, it needs a little more west coast influx to balance it out.

I spent last year in Alberta, and am currently spending this year in the Okanagan. The Kelowna area is most definitely not Calgary's hinterland. People from here rarely go to Alberta, whereas they go to the Coast all the time. What you find here are a lot of Albertan tourists or transplants, that's about it. You can tell how happy both types of people are to not currently be in Alberta. This area feels very much like "BC" to me, the people, their attitudes, etc. It's a more redneck version than Vancouver at times, but still happier, more relaxed, open-minded, and tolerant of diverse opinions than my sense of people in Edmonton.

As for an HSR, it's a nice idea but could you imagine how expensive that would be to build out to this area, through all of that terrain? The Okanagan will continue to grow, naturally, but when would it reach a population capable of justifying such an expenditure?

It's a beautiful place with a lot to offer, but I miss Vancouver so much. Hopefully, I'll be making the move back sometime this year.

[Rusty Gull]

The Okanagan is a true hybrid of Vancouver and Calgary, in my opinion. The lifestyle is decidedly West Coast, but the politics are Albertan all the way.

Unfortunately, HSR from either metro to K-town is a non-starter because of the cost of building it through mountainous terrain. I believe Via runs from Vancouver to Kamloops, but it is not very practical.

I like Kelowna, it's a nice place to visit. But the sprawl is awful, and being in a valley in the winter is depressing. There's nothing like a blazing hot Okanagan summer though, especially if you live close to the lake or have a boat!

[SpongeG]

Two different bus journeys

Editor:

Re: TransLink priorities off the rails, Dec. 2 letters.

I’ve been using the transit service lately from White Rock to Terminal Avenue in Downtown Vancouver, and I’ve been pleasantly surprised.

I’m not a regular transit user, but I’ve found the service on the 351 bus and the new Canada Line train to be top-notch and flawless. The buses are clean, comfortable, warm and friendly, and the SkyTrain from Richmond to Downtown Vancouver is a breeze, quick and easy.

I doubt I’ll ever drive my car Downtown again. This transit service is superb. Aside from saving money on parking, gas and traffic snarls, I’m saving time and relaxing en route. From what I’ve seen and experienced, it’s better than most and well-worth using.

One criticism, though, would be the lack of toilets anywhere around the stops. Where are the cans? Toilets are good things to have.

TransLink, keep up the great service!

Larry Marko, Surrey

• • •

My daughter works at a high-end hotel Downtown Vancouver.

She mostly works evening shifts, and on more than one occasion has been on the Canada Line trying to meet up with the bus at the Bridgeport Station to Crescent Beach at 11:50 p.m.

Unfortunately the bus schedules do not seem to work in conjunction with the SkyTrain, as the bus leaves just as the train is coming in.

Keeping in mind that at this hour the buses run just once an hour, the evenings – besides being dark and unsettling – are freezing.

My daughter chooses to wait inside the door of the casino, as it is warm and there is a lot of security. She can also keep an eye on the clock, so as not to miss the next bus.

Lo and behold, 12:40 arrives so she goes out to catch the 12:50 bus – only to watch the back end of it as it leaves too early.

After speaking to two RCMP officers at the station, they said they’d had other complaints regarding the same thing.

Would it be a no-brainer for the bus driver to watch as the trains come in, and then wait to see if someone is trying to catch the bus? How about not leaving before the scheduled time?

...

http://www.bclocalnews.com/opinion/letters/80065732.html

[NetMapel]

The #351 is really good when you are part of the standard commute, AKA going to downtown or Richmond in the morning and coming back to White Rock in the early evening. However, if you are are not part of the commute time or come home really late, then it starts becoming a hassle real quick.

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by NetMapel

What do you mean by 3 transfer points ? I just think, with post-secondaries as expensive as it is, it's not hard to imagine students choose to stay at home while they attend UBC. Nobody "deserves" to have to such a long commute, they just put up with it one way or another. Besides, skytrain all the way to UBC benefits everybody in the region who take the M-line, not just the people from Surrey.

Also, preserving the Arbutus line for a true heavy rail (WCE-style or HSR) is important for the growth of the Vancouver region as well. More people from further places can come to Vancouver to spend and work could only mean a more vibrant downtown.


Yes, that's what I would like. I don't even think the line needs to go all the way to White Rock. I think a main station at South Surrey's Park and Ride is good enough. That place is always packed now.

there was a plan done i think with the tyee that showed the streetcar network that could be built with the money that is needed for the UBC extension - it showed three street car lines going into UBC one from broadway, one from 41st and 70th i beleive it was that was just the east-west lines - there were also a few north south lines that could be done

i'd rather have more overall streetcar than a sibgle UBC extension myself - but i agree regional fast is needed but vancouver is not in need of regional streetcar can handle what is needed now imo

[Zassk]

^ But we already have buses running on those routes, which have just as good speed, reliability and capacity as a streetcar... and are much more flexible in terms of logistics.

A streetcar is only interesting if it fills a need or a route that buses can't provide. What would we accomplish by just replacing the UBC bus routes with three streetcar lines? Nothing.

The last thing UBC needs is to swap one low-grade transit service with another low-grade transit service. UBC needs an upgrade in capacity and speed, that is the whole point.

Put streetcars where they will have a positive impact on short-distance travel. For the longer, highest demand routes like UBC, something bigger is needed.

[nname]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

there was a plan done i think with the tyee that showed the streetcar network that could be built with the money that is needed for the UBC extension - it showed three street car lines going into UBC one from broadway, one from 41st and 70th i beleive it was that was just the east-west lines - there were also a few north south lines that could be done

i'd rather have more overall streetcar than a sibgle UBC extension myself - but i agree regional fast is needed but vancouver is not in need of regional streetcar can handle what is needed now imo

You really believe that many lines can be built with that money? I'm pretty sure those number were determined using the ideal case (ie. existing ROW, no utility relocation, no demand similar to Broadway, excluding trains, etc.) I remembered the cost/km they proposed is something like 15M~20M/km. The recent streetcar construction in St. Clair in Toronto, which satisfies all 4 conditions above, turns out to be around 15M/km. For Broadway corridor, would you think the project would come anywhere close to 15M/km with all the utility relocation (dig the street out?), ROW issues (property acquisition? street reconstruction?), and demands (lots of train required)? It would be lucky if we can even get 4 streetcar lines or 2 LRT lines with the cost of UBC skytrain.

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by nname

You really believe that many lines can be built with that money? I'm pretty sure those number were determined using the ideal case (ie. existing ROW, no utility relocation, no demand similar to Broadway, excluding trains, etc.) I remembered the cost/km they proposed is something like 15M~20M/km. The recent streetcar construction in St. Clair in Toronto, which satisfies all 4 conditions above, turns out to be around 15M/km. For Broadway corridor, would you think the project would come anywhere close to 15M/km with all the utility relocation (dig the street out?), ROW issues (property acquisition? street reconstruction?), and demands (lots of train required)? It would be lucky if we can even get 4 streetcar lines or 2 LRT lines with the cost of UBC skytrain.

they did the numbers not me don't shoot the messenger

personally i think building a university in the hinterlands was a stupid move to begin with

I think more people other than the UBC would like more transit options thats all

carry on

[tybuilding]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

this idea give them 3 options - three transfer points

if people are stupid enough to live in surrey and attend UBC they desreve a 2 hour commute

I commuted from Surrey. Not everyone can afford to live away from their parents while they go to school.

My shortest was 1 hr 15 min including driving to the Scott Road park and ride from Fleetwood, skytrain, UBC non stop bus from Broadway and Commercial

[Spork]

However, you can afford to choose a university closer to where you live. E.g. SFU. My friend commuted from White Rock to SFU Burnaby for 5 years - he turned out fine. It is the perfect time to read your books, study, or relax.

[hollywoodnorth]

I remember a while back Translink said that the downtown Expo line tunnels would get cell phone coverage.

did that happen? or is it happening? I think there was a RFP put out, etc

[deasine]

Originally Posted by hollywoodnorth

I remember a while back Translink said that the downtown Expo line tunnels would get cell phone coverage.

did that happen? or is it happening? I think there was a RFP put out, etc

I get signal now =P