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  #541  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2009, 7:01 PM
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I think I can find someone who can design the stadium itself for the proposal if needed.
     
     
  #542  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2009, 7:18 PM
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Originally Posted by downtowndawn View Post
Yes, the corner of Young and Windsor (Willow Park) had a Petro Canada Station proposed for that site. Community Council voted against it. I personally believe the stadium needs to be on the peninsula. The whole peninsula such be treated as our downtown... like manhattan. That is my personal thoughts.

There are several opportunities as you know, and I can tell you there are many Councillors interested in a stadium. Keep up the good discussion and when you are ready I can set up a meeting with a few of the Councillors with you all.

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Welcome to the forums Councillor Sloane.

I agree that building a gas station at that site is a waste of land. There's two gas stations within a couple of blocks of this site (down by Kempt at up by Connaught). If another gas station is required (which I believe it is not) then they buy one of the two abandoned gas station sites at Bayers @ Oxford and on Robie.
     
     
  #543  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2009, 8:12 PM
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I think I can find someone who can design the stadium itself for the proposal if needed.
Are you referring to detailed structural or conceptual designs? I think initially just a conceptual design is required. Then once funding is achieved more detailed structural drawings would be required. An interesting book on this topic is Stadia: A Design and Development Guide ( http://www.amazon.co.uk/Stadia-Geraint-John-CISRM-MILAM/dp/075066844X ). It has a lot of useful information. I am sure most people would be able to understand the technical aspects of this book but it certainly tells me that it is important in the end to consult an expert in stadium design. I think that the best we can do is get an idea of economical designs and what is considered to be a suitable design based on the views of the fans that would use the stadium.

I have a design in mind based on the InfoCision Stadium in Akron, Ohio with some changes. This would be a sunken bowl design. I am working on it now and will get some help from an architectural major.

Anyone who wishes to present a design should go ahead and post it on this thread so that others can give their opinions. Then the design picked will be one that the majority of people will find to be acceptable.

I hope that within one - two months we can make a presentation to the councillors of what we as residents and ex-residents would like to see in terms of cost and design. Prior to meeting with the councilors it would be a good idea to have a meeting arranged between members of this group Ad-HRMS (Advocates for an HRM Stadium). Please let me know who is interested. You can send an email to [email protected] or contact me by the private messaging link on this thread.

Last edited by fenwick16; Dec 21, 2009 at 12:00 AM.
     
     
  #544  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2009, 8:16 PM
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I think we should go with a European-Modern design. Il have some pictures of my proposal later this month.
     
     
  #545  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2009, 11:29 PM
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i think a design and location is a must once its all done then an actual proposal could be made
im willing to help however i can, i cant really make renders or have much money but i can probly think of something to do, i just love the support this is getting on here. And i am willing to help anyway i can.
     
     
  #546  
Old Posted Dec 22, 2009, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Bedford_DJ View Post
Aka the old city dump.

Even further away from Downtown but Chinatown could be turned into a waterfront stadium.
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Originally Posted by terrynorthend View Post
I'm pretty sure this land is earmarked for future expansion of CERESport.
Hm, another potential site nearby would be the plot of land between Fairview Cove port (Ceresport) and the terminus of the Robie Street extension (now Massachusetts Ave). It would require the relocation of an Envirodepot, maintenance vehicle parking, and some smaller structures (a couple houses?). It would still be quite out-of-the-way as far as the peninsula goes, and pedestrian access is poor without a pedway. Good access for autos and it might spur development in the Kempt Rd area. You could fit a stadium the size of BC Place there, with some room left over for parking. Not an ideal spot at all, but a possibility.

Not sure about the skate park site, it seems a bit small and there'd be a huge backlash towards a development eating up that much of the Common. I like the Windsor Park idea.

Welcome Councillor Sloan I'm glad you're committed to the peninsula, though I like to think of it as becoming a complete, compact city in itself rather than the "downtown" in its entirety, because to me that implies somehow that everyone still lives elsewhere and travels in for work. I wish the city would focus more on densifying the peninsula - HRMbyDesign is a great start, but the amount of surburban sprawl in the works is terrifying. I think that with the Highway 107 extension/interchange at Anderson Lake we will see the triangular area between the 102 and the 118 (over twice the area of the peninsula) completely filled in by suburban development in a couple decades.
     
     
  #547  
Old Posted Dec 22, 2009, 4:47 PM
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the big news in vancouver today is the bc lions are moving to a 30,000 seat temporary stadium on the P.N.E. grounds for about $20 million if they can do that halifax has to be able to do this e-mail your city council, mayor MLA'S ect... canadians want the cfl in halifax!
     
     
  #548  
Old Posted Dec 22, 2009, 10:04 PM
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the big news in vancouver today is the bc lions are moving to a 30,000 seat temporary stadium on the P.N.E. grounds for about $20 million if they can do that halifax has to be able to do this e-mail your city council, mayor MLA'S ect... canadians want the cfl in halifax!
This temporary facility actually looks pretty nice.

http://www.bclions.com/page/tickets_2010
     
     
  #549  
Old Posted Dec 22, 2009, 10:51 PM
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I know I am looking at things with a bias towards a CFL team in Halifax but a temporary facility such as the one being used for the BC Lions could be a start. Perhaps use this temporary type facility until a permanent and nicer stadium could be built (with the help of a private investor/owner of any Halifax CFL team like what is being done in Winnipeg with David Asper who will be taking control of the Blue Bombers. I beleive the plan there is for Asper to put $40 mil of his money as well as $40mil fed and $40 mil provincial cash towards the new stadium). I don't know what the shelf life is for one of these types of stadiums before alot of maintainance is required so I'm not sure how long a temporary stadium remains functional.
     
     
  #550  
Old Posted Dec 22, 2009, 11:24 PM
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I agree CFLFan - I had suggested this earlier: we know the seating at Huskies Stadium desperately needs to be rebuilt and expanded, my suggestion is expand it to 15k permanent seats, expandable to 25. That way there's at least something to show the CFL that Halifax is serious, maybe land us a few more exhibition (or regular season games), while plans are put together and construction can begin on a more appropriate 25-30k venue.
The work needs to be done to Huskies, the seating is falling apart - why not take the opportunity to also expand it?
     
     
  #551  
Old Posted Dec 22, 2009, 11:45 PM
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There are some great stadiums and amphitheaters that have been around for many centuries like this one below. This is the epidaurus amphitheater in Greece. I am not a history buff but this looks great and has been around for over 2000 years. I was just looking at stadiums and came across this one. I had seen it before but never paid much attention.

I wish Halifax could design something like this. This type of stadium would have to be designed by a good landscaper and architect. It is symmetrical and is surrounded by a great landscape. To me this would be ideal. It makes me believe that a great stadium could be built for not a great deal of money. It could be a sunken symmetrical bowl with plants actually built into the stadium. The ground that is removed for the sunken bowl could surround the stadium bowl and have plants and cement/stone ramps and stairways. The walls of the stadium could be low rise of 20 - 30 feet which would serve as retaining walls for the natural bowl stadium (except man made, which I know is a contradiction). If calculated correctly then the ground removed for the sunken bowl would be just enough for the man made hill surrounding the stadium. It would be as much a landscaping project as a construction project.

Are there any landscapers reading this post who could come up with a drawing? Look at how popular the Halifax Public Gardens are. Does Halifax need to build an impersonal stadium like so many others in North America? There have been some modern classics like Fenway Park and Wriggly Field. So how can Halifax come up with a classic that doesn't need to cost a lot of money?


Last edited by fenwick16; Dec 23, 2009 at 2:54 AM.
     
     
  #552  
Old Posted Dec 23, 2009, 12:52 AM
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Originally Posted by fenwick16 View Post
There are some great stadiums and amphitheaters that have been around for many centuries like this one below. This is the epidaurus amphitheater in Greece. I am not a history buff but this looks great and has been around for over 2000 years. I was just looking at stadiums and came across this one. I had seen it before but never paid much attention.


Huskies stadium is almost the reverse of a sunken bowl. It is based on the concept of the main support structure being earthen material. The problem with Huskies stadium is that it is built above grade and disturbed soil is used at a structural base. The unstable nature of a built up bank has led to the errosion and collapse of the upper northwest section. A sunken bowl would be much more stable as bedrock would be the base with the concrete stadium seating anchored on top. There would need to be a robust pumping system to expel surface water and ground water.
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Last edited by Empire; Dec 23, 2009 at 12:35 PM.
     
     
  #553  
Old Posted Dec 23, 2009, 2:21 AM
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Huskies stadium is almost the reverse of a sunken bowl. It is based on the concept of the main support structure being earthen material. The problem with Huskies stadium is that it is build above grade and disturbed soil is used at a structural base. The unstable nature of a built up bank has led to the errosion and collapse of the upper northwest section. A sunken bowl would be much more stable as bedrock would be the base with the concrete stadium seating anchored on top. There would need to be a robust pumping system to expel surface water and ground water.
This is a good point. I have looked at pictures and it looks like the Husky stadium has a ground burm. However, I don't think that they properly reinforced it. Perhaps all that they needed was a better retaining wall. The technology exists since retaining walls are used effectively in highway construction without being unstable as is the Huskies Stadium.

If the sunken bowl, is for example, 25 feet deep, then it would be on solid bedrock. However, then all this material must be trucked away which would be very expensive and would disturb neighboring residents. If the bedrock and soil that is removed is piled 20 feet high around the stadium then ramps and steps could be used to get to the top of the stadium.The actual proportions of how much is excavated to how much is piled around the stadium bowl would have to be calculated based on the land area available. Then the stadium concourse is at the very top of the stadium (20 feet above street level, and 45 feet above the 34 rows of seats completely surrounding the field). The retaining walls for the stadium would look like standard walls from street (perhaps the wall could have evergreen vegetation growing from ledges, ivy looks great during the summer but not so great during the winter). All the washrooms and concessions could be build on this concourse with trees and bushes since it would be soil underneath. Then skyboxes could line part of the top of the stadium with part remaining open for handicapped seating. So this concourse would look like a public gardens with buildings for washrooms. Then when you go from this concourse to the stadium bowl you get a great contrast between the outer concourse and a very modern stadium bowl. The concourse would be surrounded by fencing that would allow views of the street below. Ideally, the sideline seats would be covered with two curved roof sections (but not the concourse which would be open to the elements). The roof sections would be fairly low and extend right to the edge of the field to provide maximum protection to the fans on the sideline stands. The concourse of the two end zones would be open so as to allow additional temporary stands to allow for large events. These stands would be placed at the concourse level, so the end zones would basically have two tiers of seating during large events. The roof sections would be relatively small in area compared to other similar stadiums since they would only cover the actual sideline stands and not the concessions, washrooms and entrance ramps.

From the street level you could look to the top of the 20 foot high exterior walls and see bushes and small trees growing on the top of the stadium. At street level, the ends of the stadium would have stairs and ramps leading into the entrance gates (which would be actual gates).

This is just my idea of an interesting stadium. However, the details would take a lot of work. And this stadium idea might sound very strange to others. I think that it could be built at a relatively modest price though. This idea is a combination of the InfoCision Field and the ancient Epidaurus ( http://www.odysseyadventures.ca/trips/greece/epidaurus.jpg ). When I look at pictures of the InfoCision field, it appears as though part of the excavated soil was used in that stadium construction.

One big difference between this and infoCision field is that this would be a complete symmetrical stadium bowl that would provide a lot of protection from the elements, especially since the bowl would be completely surrounded by earth that would provide excellent insulation from both cold and heat. Heating for the washrooms and concessions could possibly be provided by geothermal heating. If sufficient heat was available then the covered area could have some additional heat provided as an air curtain from the roof sections. Although this part sound far fetched, it has actually been tested ( http://www.jstor.org/pss/73885 ).

I think that actual folding seats would be best, at least under the roof sections since these provide the best movement of spectators along the seating aisles (between rows of seats). However, if necessary to keep the cost down then bench style seating could be used throughout. If money is very limited then the seating could be like the Epidaurus seating style (basically cement benches).

Please provide feedback.

Last edited by fenwick16; Dec 23, 2009 at 3:07 AM.
     
     
  #554  
Old Posted Dec 23, 2009, 7:22 AM
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i find it kind of interesting that Hamilton's Ivor Wynn stadium is in the middle of this residential neighborhood,
they must not have half as many NIMBYs as we do,
which is kind of sad.



Yeah, it's one of those places that you think from the looks, it wouldn't fit in a neighbourhood. Even when I parked cars for the games a few blocks away, people would ask where the stadium was and I just pointed to where the lights peeked out.
When you're inside Ivor Wynne though, you're absorbed in its history and feel like it's where it belongs. This may as well be Canada's Wrigley or Fenway
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  #555  
Old Posted Dec 23, 2009, 9:40 AM
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Yeah, it's one of those places that you think from the looks, it wouldn't fit in a neighbourhood. Even when I parked cars for the games a few blocks away, people would ask where the stadium was and I just pointed to where the lights peeked out.
When you're inside Ivor Wynne though, you're absorbed in its history and feel like it's where it belongs. This may as well be Canada's Wrigley or Fenway
I lived in Hamilton for several years. Hamilton is a great place except for a few parts of the east end around the steel factories. The west end and mountain areas are completely opposite to the east end. And I guess the east end is interesting for people who like industrial neighbourhoods. I guess Ivor Wynne isn't what I am thinking of except that it is a very low profile stadium that fits into the industrial east end. I drove past it a couple of times and hardly noticed it except for the multicolored seats. If Ivor Wynne was painted one color with one color of seats like Fenway Park do you think that it would get more admiration? Is there any sort of outcry from Hamiltonians about tearing down Ivor Wynne once the new stadium is built? In spite of living in Hamilton, I only saw the stadium from my car since I never actually when inside.

Hamilton was a great city to live in. I really enjoyed my stay there.

P.S. I just looked at your picture again. Although not quite what I was thinking of, I like the way the canopies are set up in the corner of the stadium. And also the trees. Now you have me thinking that I should have of gone to Ivory Wyne sometime. I might do it this summer. I am not that far away, up in Milton.

Last edited by fenwick16; Dec 23, 2009 at 11:24 AM.
     
     
  #556  
Old Posted Dec 23, 2009, 12:34 PM
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If the sunken bowl, is for example, 25 feet deep, then it would be on solid bedrock. However, then all this material must be trucked away which would be very expensive and would disturb neighboring residents. If the bedrock and soil that is removed is piled 20 feet high around the stadium then ramps and steps could be used to get to the top of the stadium.The actual proportions of how much is excavated to how much is piled around the stadium bowl would have to be calculated based on the land area available. Then the stadium concourse is at the very top of the stadium (20 feet above street level, and 45 feet above the 34 rows of seats completely surrounding the field). The retaining walls for the stadium would look like standard walls from street (perhaps the wall could have evergreen vegetation growing from ledges, ivy looks great during the summer but not so great during the winter). ( http://www.jstor.org/pss/73885 ).

I think a sunken bowl has a lot of merit in the right conditions. Wouldn't the shape have to follow the shape of the football field? If you were to fashion a bowl around a football field you would have a very large footprint as a result. Also, if bedrock is near the surface, as it is in most of Halifax, you would have a very expensive excavation. The trillium excavation took a year for approx. 30,000 sq. ft. footprint. A sunken bowl might take 250,000 sq. ft. of surface area and the same depth. The water issue may not be a concern but there would certainly drainage challenges. Rainwater and ground water runoff would be connected to the municipal storm drainage system and may require pumping. The excavated material for the concourse would no doubt require a continuous concrete retaining wall much like the epidaurus amphitheater in Greece. I wonder if they used limestone? Perhaps there could be savings if an existing hill could be used as one side of the stadium. Perhaps the quarry rock face in Dartmouth Crossing could be excavated to form one side of the stadium?
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  #557  
Old Posted Dec 23, 2009, 2:17 PM
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I think a sunken bowl has a lot of merit in the right conditions. Wouldn't the shape have to follow the shape of the football field? If you were to fashion a bowl around a football field you would have a very large footprint as a result. Also, if bedrock is near the surface, as it is in most of Halifax, you would have a very expensive excavation. The trillium excavation took a year for approx. 30,000 sq. ft. footprint. A sunken bowl might take 250,000 sq. ft. of surface area and the same depth. The water issue may not be a concern but there would certainly drainage challenges. Rainwater and ground water runoff would be connected to the municipal storm drainage system and may require pumping. The excavated material for the concourse would no doubt require a continuous concrete retaining wall much like the epidaurus amphitheater in Greece. I wonder if they used limestone? Perhaps there could be savings if an existing hill could be used as one side of the stadium. Perhaps the quarry rock face in Dartmouth Crossing could be excavated to form one side of the stadium?
Yes, these things are important to consider. However, I think that it is an interesting thing to consider. I think that the Trillium was about 35 feet deep and it seemed like it took a long time to excavate. If the stadium is only about 20 - 25 feet deep then the point at which it goes from excavation to piling ground is about halfway up the stands. So I think that the excavated area might be about 175,000 square feet.

The retaining wall around the stadium would basically be the exterior wall of the stadium, and lower than most stadiums at about 20 - 25 feet. But it would likely have to be quite sturdy. I think that building the retaining wall would have to be the first step. This would be a good job for one of the big highway construction companies in the Halifax area since I think that the challenges might be comparable.

Since that part of Halifax is somewhat raised (if at the DND Willow Park area), I think that the drainage system would have to be tied into the rain water system at a lower elevation towards the harbour. This is something that would be known by construction people in the Halifax area. Also, part of the rain water could be absorbed by the ground if the ground is excavated, crushed and relaid under the field area. The washrooms would actually be above ground on the concourse, so the sewerage might not be a problem. However, the city would have to be consulted to see if the sewer system in that part of town could handle the capacity. I think a good comparison of the excavation difficulty would be the Scotia Square. I am not sure how long that this took to excavate.

I wonder if part of the problem at the Trillium was because they had to go straight down at the sidewalk. This wouldn't be the case here since it would be angled at the sides from the bottom up to street level. So I don't think the large cutting saw that they used at the Trillium would be required.

Although the excavation would take time, not much ground would actually be removed from the site which would save money. Also, money is being saved on the outer exterior walls of the stadium since whatever depth is excavated is that much lower of an exterior wall.
     
     
  #558  
Old Posted Dec 23, 2009, 3:54 PM
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wow i never knew ivor wynn was that close to those houses. hamilton needs a new ballpark though just to host grey cups they need a more modern facility.
     
     
  #559  
Old Posted Dec 23, 2009, 9:57 PM
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Ivor Wynn is a pretty old Stadium, 50+ years if I am correct (yup, opened in 1930). I doubt there was a lot of Nimby-ism in the "dirty thirties"; people were crying for work projects. I'd say there was a lot more "IMBY's" in those depressed days. And even if there were a few voices of dissension, there was no fighting Cityhall back then. What the Boss says, the Boss gets.
     
     
  #560  
Old Posted Dec 24, 2009, 9:07 PM
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Thread Name Change?

Should the name of this thread be changed to Halifax Stadium Discussion? When I started this thread, I didn't intend for it to be deceptive. However, the title seems to imply that this is an actual proposal. Hopefully the HRM and other levels of government will go ahead with a stadium in the near future but for now it is just a strong desire and not a proposal.

I have been working on a computer model of a stadium based on the InfoCision field in Akron Ohio but with some modifications. Initially, I did a model based on the ancient Epidaurus amphitheater concept but it didn't work well for a large stadium. Because of the requirements for washrooms and other facilities it just isn't an attractive concept for a large stadium. However, a stadium like the InfoCision Stadium has a lot of room in the end zones for landscaping. Great landscaping could help to make it a great stadium. I won't be able to do justice to the landscaping with my computer model. I will start with a fairly detailed conceptual model and then make alterations based on the suggestions of the consensus of the people on this thread.

Once the second model, based on InfoCision stadium, is complete, I will upload the 3-D computer model to Google Earth and see if I can paste it on the DND site and possibly other sites.

Last edited by fenwick16; Dec 25, 2009 at 3:35 AM.
     
     
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