Metro Vancouver Transit Discussion

[BCPhil]

Originally Posted by Zassk

I suggest you actually look at the tables in the PDF, because your criticism is misplaced. The actual raw numbers of people riding bikes to/from UBC per weekday decreased from 2,700 in 1997 to 1,600 in 2008. Pedestrians down from 1,400 to 1,000. The mode-share numbers are also in the PDF, but they are not what I quoted. The report attempts to draw a conclusion:

Right, but when you say "bicycle trips to UBC decreased by 41%" it sounds like a lot. Not exactly the same impact as saying "bicycle trips drop from 3% of total trips to 1%" which is also true. And walking going from aprox 1% down to aprox 1% of total trips.

Like someone could steal 100% of my money from my bank account, but really they would only be taking about $20.

[David]

Originally Posted by cabotp

This may sound like a dumb question.

But who in their right mind would walk to UBC

Now that would be one long walk.

without reading the report i'm assuming that accounts for people living in res, plus point grey of course

[SpongeG]

I saw the Koodo bus today - its hard to miss - it was on cambie - its got one of the light changing signs on it - very bright most people didn't even seem to look at it but those that did really noticed it

also saw a few very good wraps on the Canada line - when did those start? I've seen the little ones but not whole trains covered - they look great

[cabotp]

Originally Posted by David

without reading the report i'm assuming that accounts for people living in res, plus point grey of course

Ya after I posted that I kind of figured it must be people living on campus. Point Grey though I would consider to still be too far for most people to walk.

[dreambrother808]

Originally Posted by cabotp

Point Grey though I would consider to still be too far for most people to walk.

True. I used to take that walk a few times a month when I lived on campus though.

[hollywoodnorth]

I saw a Van City wrap on a MKII skytrain car..........first time I have seen a MKII decked out.............

have any MKII's been done up b4?

[NetMapel]

Boy I haven't ridden on the Expo line for quite some time but I rode it to Metrotown yesterday. I guess I have forgotten how dirty it is, even on the new cars. There is litter everywhere on the floor ! What's with the huge difference in "clean-ness" between the Canada Line and Expo Line ? Are there less staff on the Expo line or something ?

[cabotp]

Originally Posted by NetMapel

Boy I haven't ridden on the Expo line for quite some time but I rode it to Metrotown yesterday. I guess I have forgotten how dirty it is, even on the new cars. There is litter everywhere on the floor ! What's with the huge difference in "clean-ness" between the Canada Line and Expo Line ? Are there less staff on the Expo line or something ?

It probably has more to do with the fact that there is way more people on the Expo line over the Canada line.

Also don't forget that the Canada line is still very new it hasn't lost its shine yet. Which makes appear to be cleaner. No matter how dirty it might be.

[mr.x]

^ actually, no. There is better maintenance and a bit more cleaning on the Canada Line as the payment the private operators get is also based on customer service. You almost never see garbage anywhere on the Canada Line.

There was a memo a few months ago, just before the Canada Line opened, that said SkyTrain would offer better customer service and clean the trains more often...iunno if that has happened.

[NetMapel]

Well I rode the new sky train cars that just came here a couple of months ago. I understand the skytrain system is old so I am fine with whatever scratch marks. However, it's strange to see garbages/litters on the floor everywhere...

[zivan56]

I am surprised that Skytrain cars are *this* clean especially compared to some other metros. You should see what people bring in to eat/drink and end up stinking up the trains or making a mess. IMO paper and other "clean" garbage is not a big issue.

[gillty]

Originally Posted by NetMapel

Boy I haven't ridden on the Expo line for quite some time but I rode it to Metrotown yesterday. I guess I have forgotten how dirty it is, even on the new cars. There is litter everywhere on the floor ! What's with the huge difference in "clean-ness" between the Canada Line and Expo Line ? Are there less staff on the Expo line or something ?

Pro Trans gets paid based on service from Translink so everything has to be taken care of as soon as possible. Protrans also pays a private cleaning contractor, Omni Facility Services to clean everything. Anytime there is a problem there is a immediate meeting between translink and protrans and sometime Omni, if it isn't taken care of quickly heavy penalties are enforced on Protrans.

[deasine]

I think SkyTrain should contract their cleaning services out to another company (maybe not OMNI).

[ravman]

Originally Posted by deasine

I think SkyTrain should contract their cleaning services out to another company (maybe not OMNI).

The Underhill report

“A final reason to consider a PPP would be to capture any advantages there might be in having a private operator….TransLink previously explored the idea of private operations for SkyTrain and found at the time that costs of private operations would exceed TransLink’s own costs.”- the Underhill report

pg 51

btw... its a report

Deasine:

[deasine]

Contracting out services and developing a P3 operations are two different things. Moreover, I'm only talking about contracting a component of the services out. Cost wise, contracting services might not be cheaper, and yes it can be more expensive, but it all comes down to quality of the service.

[ravman]

Originally Posted by deasine

Contracting out services and developing a P3 operations are two different things. Moreover, I'm only talking about contracting a component of the services out. Cost wise, contracting services might not be cheaper, and yes it can be more expensive, but it all comes down to quality of the service.

correct me if i am wrong, but isnt Translink in a bit of a "financial mess" and cannot afford additional costs?

[Zassk]

"costs of private operations would exceed TransLink’s own costs"

Well, of course it would - Translink is apparently not doing any cleaning at all. :-)

I have seen some refuse like Starbucks cups stuffed into Canada Line seats, but overall the trains are kept very clean.

Canada Line ridership per-train-car can't be much different from Expo Line ridership per-train-car, so you would expect refuse to accumulate at similar rates on each line. Maybe riders treat the C-line better while the "new car smell" is present, but I bet the cleaning staff is responsible for the difference.

[Canadian Mind]

Yea, it's probably more expensive for a reason... ie. People actually cleaning the trains and stations.

[deasine]

Well in ravman's defense, the report is talking about P3ing the existing SkyTrain system (and not just the contracting of cleaning services), and why would you do that anyway... The point of a P3 is so that it reduces the risk, and most of the risk occurs during construction. In terms of operations, I think BCRTC is doing a great job, but just lacks in terms of the customer service and cleaning components. Scanning through the report, it lacks details and is based on a generalized P3 system, which doesn't necessarily apply into the Canada Line.

Whether or not TransLink is in a bad financial situation doesn't really matter because this isn't going to be long term. Besides, the cost of contracting services, if it is more, won't be substantial enough to tip TransLink's budget over. Really, if TransLink was desperate with money, most of the SkyTrain stations would already look like the Canada Line downtown ones: walls full of ads.

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by deasine

I think SkyTrain should contract their cleaning services out to another company (maybe not OMNI).

I'd love to see that happen, but I'm quite sure the [spoiled] unions won't have any of that.