Montgomery development news

[thoraudio]

Originally Posted by nimsjus

Former mobilian just reading the thread...Nanseas is still open but at a new location that does not dangle treacherously out over Mobile Bay on piers. New place is in an old seafood restaurant out in west Mobile. Check it out again next time you are down. As for Wintzells, I lived in Mobile almost my entire life and am not a big fan. I too prefer Original Oyster House and several other places in town. The best thing going for Wintzells is the Raw Bar and it just never seems to translate in their franchises. I only go there if I can go to the one in downtown Mobile and sit at the bar and have my raw oysters shucked on the spot. Otherwise it is just sort of average in my book. Always felt like other than the oysters, the portions were small for the price. I hope it does well though because it is a Mobile based company.

Part of the charm of Nan Seas was sitting on the deck in the patio furniture, looking over the bay.

But where is it now? Imma google it.

[nimsjus]

Originally Posted by thoraudio

Part of the charm of Nan Seas was sitting on the deck in the patio furniture, looking over the bay.

But where is it now? Imma google it.

It is off Cody Rd in west Mobile. The new place sits on a pond if that counts....It was previously a seafood/catfish place called Lakeside Lodge that had been out of business for about 3 years when NanSeas needed a ne place after Katrina/Ivan.

[Revive Montgomery]

Originally Posted by OldCloverdale

how much longer on SaZa? a week or two?

They told us that they are currently training staff. They hoped to be open by now, but the construction on Commerce delayed their opening.

[Capital Heights]

Originally Posted by Revive Montgomery

They told us that they are currently training staff. They hoped to be open by now, but the construction on Commerce delayed their opening.

We were fortunate enough to sample some pizza, fresh out of the oven, from SaZa's this past weekend. Without a doubt the most succulant pizza I have eaten. It was tomato paste, basil leaf, and a dollap of ricotta cheese on the lightest dough imaginable. I look forward to sampling the rest of the menu. By the way, they said they are ready to open, simply waiting on the sidewalk construction to finish.

[bystander1]

Originally Posted by Capital Heights

We were fortunate enough to sample some pizza, fresh out of the oven, from SaZa's this past weekend. Without a doubt the most succulant pizza I have eaten. It was tomato paste, basil leaf, and a dollap of ricotta cheese on the lightest dough imaginable. I look forward to sampling the rest of the menu. By the way, they said they are ready to open, simply waiting on the sidewalk construction to finish.

Glad to hear.

Geez, What's up with that sidewalk?

[bystander1]

Originally Posted by Revive Montgomery

They told us that they are currently training staff. They hoped to be open by now, but the construction on Commerce delayed their opening.

Welcome, Revive Montgomery.

[Jefficator]

So I've been thinking. When you travel to Europe--or even to Times Square now!--significant areas of city centers are being transformed into Pedestrian Zones. I'm wondering whether that could work in Montgomery.

One of the biggest problems, from my perspective, with creating a walking culture downtown (aside from the heat!) is the size of the streets. Madison Avenue spans six lanes at Commerce Street. Dexter Avenue is equally sprawling. Now this might have been wonderful for moving cotton wagons up and down the streets, and it might have been wonderful for cars competing against a dedicated trolley line. Its certainly wonderful for all the cars that whiz past me when I try to walk to Subway. But it is not at all wonderful for pedestrians. The size of our streets are car-not-people-friendly.

There isn't much that can be done about that yet. People here still love their cars too much to allow grassy medians or trolley tracks down the center of many streets.

But what if Lower Commerce Street--after Tallapoosa Street at least--were closed to traffic? What if the whole street were replaced with pavers and cobblestones and maybe a water feature (evoking the connection to the River?) of some kind. Would that integrate this area into the Alley some how and encourage foot traffic?

I realize those buildings are presently occupied by law firms. But wouldn't it be wonderful if they became such valuable real estate that the law firms traded them in for other office space and allowed restaurants to move in?

[Jefficator]

I've been trying to imagine the typical downtown office worker, and trying to imagine what businesses could appeal to them that might turn a profit and manage to stay open at night too. Perhaps these businesses might even ease the transition into downtown living?

Here are ideas I've had. Please make further suggestions!

Zoe's (two women in my office drive to EastChase once a week!)

Starbucks (how is downtown the only place in the universe without one)

7-11 (they are aggressively expanding. A shop on Dexter could succeed)

McDonald's (I don't love them, but a storefront McDonald's could succeed...not a drive-through suburban type one, of course, but a first-floor building)

Frankly I could also see a high-end men's clothing shop doing well. Something like The Locker Room?

Any one else have any ideas? Or help me see my thought error?

[OldCloverdale]

Originally Posted by Jefficator

... trying to imagine what businesses... that might turn a profit and manage to stay open at night too. Perhaps these businesses might even ease the transition into downtown living?...

Hooter's

[tsully76]

Hooters, Coyote Ugly, Zoe's, McDonald's, Men's Clothing Store that is not outragoeusly priced Locker Room too expensive, you want something moderately priced same as a womens store, a small grocery store, and a house of blues/comedy club would be nice.

[tsully76]

Also Dunkin Donuts, Small Jewelry Store, Cigar Place with a humidor, Some moderately priced men and women clothing stores, a small sporting goods store, just suggestions and a 7-11 would be awesome.

[thoraudio]

Look at what's successful in other similar sized towns. What is needed is both someplace that locals can go and visitors/tourists can hit and have a pleasant memory.

My vote is this.

A semi open air market similar to the Market in Charleston. Tourist wares to arts and crafts to fruits and vegetables.

There's two good locations for this. One is down the middle of Coosa Street, which is plenty wide enough. This would be a daytime/weekend morning companion to the Alley.

The other location would be on where they are planning to put the green space in front of Union Station. Imagine a row of market type buildings there along the west side of Commerce, with the green space behind them. You've just created a commercial draw for both the green space and the Riverwalk.

[bystander1]

Originally Posted by thoraudio

Look at what's successful in other similar sized towns. What is needed is both someplace that locals can go and visitors/tourists can hit and have a pleasant memory.

My vote is this.

A semi open air market similar to the Market in Charleston. Tourist wares to arts and crafts to fruits and vegetables.

There's two good locations for this. One is down the middle of Coosa Street, which is plenty wide enough. This would be a daytime/weekend morning companion to the Alley.

thoraudio, you and I are on the same page with that idea.

[tsully76]

I would love to Montgomery Downtown be similar to Nashville's Downtown which is nice very vibrant and hip. Nothing against Charleston or Savannah or Chattanooga they are nice cities but my personal opinion Nashville Downtown is awesome and Montgomery and Nashville are both capitol cities that are centrally located with a river flowing through its downtown and have historic buildings a lot in common obviously Nashville is a bigger city but their are a lot of things we can pattern after that great American city any thoughts.

[SpawnOfVulcan]

We need more development on the other side of the river. What I would like to see is a lot of park space, a massive park, on the northern side of the river with a historic looking pedestrian bridge connecting the northern side with the downtown side.

[bystander1]

Originally Posted by Alabadrock

We need more development on the other side of the river. What I would like to see is a lot of park space, a massive park, on the northern side of the river with a historic looking pedestrian bridge connecting the northern side with the downtown side.

That is actually part of the long range plan for downtown. The state has talked about making the north peninsula into a state park with walking/biking trails. Former mayor Bobby Bright mentioned the pedestrian bridge that would connect it to downtown. But of course, right now, it's still talk.

[Dyingyak]

Originally Posted by bystander1

That is actually part of the long range plan for downtown. The state has talked about making the north peninsula into a state park with walking/biking trails. Former mayor Bobby Bright mentioned the pedestrian bridge that would connect it to downtown. But of course, right now, it's still talk.

I think it would be really great to do that for downtown Montgomery...but the pedestrian bridge would never happen. The cost to span the river with a pedestrian bridge would be absolutely astronomical. I believe the distance is to great for it to be a single span bridge that small, and feasibility of getting pilings into the river that would be strong enough to withstand a run-away barge is to great.

It's a real shame there's not an abandoned train trestle or obsolete automobile bridge like Chattanooga had.

[Revive Montgomery]

I would qoute, but i agree with too many of the posts.

Thanks for the welcoming bystander!

We all realize that the first way for a downtown and city to thrive is to put your best foot forward, for visitors and for citizens. Over simplifying the process, we first have to be proud of our downtown and city before anyone else will buy into it and visit. I can say that the cities that i have visited and come away impressed with were not only beautiful and well kept but they also felt like they were loved and enjoyed. Sacramento and Salt Lake City come to mind. Sacramento's downtown farmer's market was superb.

At the same time, I believe that a downtown should attract tourists and be able to handle commerce. You can't trade one for the other. A great guy to speak with on the topic of redeveloping our downtown is the same individual who handled planning at The Waters, Nathan Norris. He has the equipment to virtually build our redevloped downtown in front of you.

As far as new businesses, I personally like the idea of a separate shopping district simliar in design to the alley. Perhaps it would include a women's store(boutique/clothing/ jewlery), men's clothing store (Jos A Banks), open air fresh grocery store, original coffee shop or a starbucks, etc.

[Jefficator]

Many of you may have seen the article last month in the Advertiser about creating a walking tour for downtown. I proposed that tour and continue to work with the city to implement it. Here's why I think it could be of unparalleled importance in revitalizing downtown.

1) A chicken-and-egg problem has long prevented large-scale downtown revitalization from taking place. Developers say there is no demand for property downtown, and residents and tourists claim there is nothing to do there. Someone has to make the first move, and in this case the city has done so through such innovations as Riverwalk Stadium, the Renaissance Hotel and Convention Center, and the Alley. But the question remains: how do you pull that revitalization from the river into the core of downtown?

2) Montgomery has been content to view itself as a stop-off for beach-goers on the way to Panama City and Gulf Shores. As long as we think of ourselves that way, we give others no reason to think any differently.

3) Most residents of Montgomery have a self-image of this city as a sleepy, boring, irrelevant place. I recently asked a bartender at a nice downtown bar what she would tell a convention guest to do on a Friday night. "Go to Atlanta." She was not being ironic.

4) The city--and indeed the world--views Montgomery as a powder-keg of division. The version of history a person privileges says a lot about that person's own political/social/historical/cultural/economic views. Is Montgomery the Cradle of the Confederacy, or is it the birthplace of the Civil Rights Movement? You might innocently reply "It is Both!" but you'd be surprised to find that most people here and elsewhere shrug when the sites they don't care about are mentioned.

So what can we do about this?

The Montgomery Civil Heritage Trail would work to promote an image of Montgomery as "America's Civil City." The idea is to remind everyone of the important role Montgomery has played in the American story. Specifically, the two most significant challenges to U.S. Constitutional interpretation unfolded on the streets of this one city. The Confederate Constitutional Convention and the Montgomery Improvement Association, though working toward radically disparate ends, were each engaged in the tradition of determining how their rights should be protected by the government. Symbolized by Jefferson Davis' Inauguration on the steps of the Alabama State Capitol as President of the Confederacy and by Martin Luther King's Speech at the same location at the culmination of the Selma-to-Montgomery march, Dexter Avenue is in many respects as essential a Constitutional location as Philadelphia's Independence Hall.

If we can correctly promote this idea and correctly market the image of Montgomery as America's Civil City--America, as in important for the whole nation, and Civil, as in Civil War, Civil Rights, and Southern Civility--then we could attract tourism in its own right.

Tourists bring tourism dollars when they come. They also bring traffic patterns. If we define a walking tour as a set route between various historical sites, then we dictate where foot traffic will exist. That can then be used by property owners to entice developers. The Convention and Visitors' Bureau can say to the owners of the Kress building, "Hey...30,000 people on foot last summer. Maybe you want to open an ice cream parlor for all those hot and tired Civil Heritage Trail walkers?" Suddenly we've pulled redevelopment into the heart of downtown.

We've also created a group of travelers for whom downtown is the locus of their visit. Maybe someone driving to Panama City pops into downtown but then stays at a hotel at the Bypass because its on their route. But the person who comes here as a destination needs a place to eat, to drink, and maybe to dance at night. We suddenly see demand for downtown hot spots increasing.

We also see a critical mass of night-time workers in downtown. Enough that more than a few of them will demand housing in the area. That critical mass leads to a critical mass for a small grocery store, and so forth.

A walking tour, then, if properly implemented, can create the demand for redevelopment downtown. It can create a unified sense of our city for ourselves and for others. It can help the nation and the world to recognize our role in the American story. And it can lead to a better place for all of us.

There are ancillary concerns to consider along the way. Summer might not be the best tourist season in hot, humid Montgomery. We will absolutely have to conceptualize means of making downtown more walkable--meaning we have to work on little improvements like powerlines and broken sidewalks.

But I think this plan can change this city forever, provided the public truly supports it.

[tsully76]

I totally agree with earlier statements and the point of one of the downtown workers saying go to Atlanta or Montgomerians only view Montgomery as a stop off to the beach is a sad commentary. Dont these people know they are hurting their own bottom line. If tourists and residents are discouraged from being or visiting here jobs will dry up and then what. This city has so much to offer and is continuing to offer more but people here seems to not care i dont get it. I have lived in Montgomery since 98 and i have never been more enthused about our city's future.