YVR Airport & Sea Island Developments Discussion

[Canadian Mind]

Originally Posted by whatnext

(bold mine)

And yet you did just that, for all those families who use daycares.

Just because one person wouldn't want their kids raised by a daycare doesn't mean they are attacking the values of someone who does want their kids raised by a daycare.

I can tell you mine certainly wont be.

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by whatnext

(bold mine)

And yet you did just that, for all those families who use daycares.

I am against the erosion of the family unit and things that contribute to it, but I would hesitate to suggest that it is an attack against a culture. That being said, I apologize if it was taken to have caused offense.

It would be hard to disagree that the family unit is ( in general ) a human trait, as opposed to a cultural one.

Sorry, but no as I have already answered. I firmly support the home team, and just as I think the federal Tories should have fought tooth and nail to keep Nortel Canadian and they should continue to provide judicious support for Bombardier. Without such actions we will just be hewers of wood and drawers of water. Patriotism shouldn't be that hard to understand.

I am sure many here share that sentiment, however, the definition of judicious differs. Patriotism, on the other hand... I am against. I think it does more harm than it does good and can be an extremely divisive force. But I don't think one needs to be patriotic to support protectionism.

[Yume-sama]

Originally Posted by deasine

Once you are in business class, service level gets much better: it's economy you'll notice the difference.

For economy class, WestJet wins. For business class AC wins by default (as there is no competition...) I have never had a pleasant AC flight attendant, they are always really crusty, and majorly depressed about having to do their job... even in business class. (once I was in business class and overheard the flight attendants joking about the plane crashing, and if it did, at least they'd finally get to do their "REAL" job instead of just being a waitress in the sky). But, I really like the amenities AC offers now, with the new interior, it beats WestJets in-flight service, even in economy. The only reason I take WestJet now is if AC flight schedules are just horribly inconvenient, or if WestJet is cheaper for the little flight between Calgary and Vancouver. So, if you have no standards for customer service, or are easily impressed, go with AC. On long flights having AC power is nice, too.

I will only fly them international if I have no other choice. For the USA, that is usually true.

[Canadian Mind]

I've never had a problem with either airline, aside from AC being more expensive for tickets generally... Though I did get kisses from AC flight attendants for free, where the one kiss I got from a WJ flight attendant I had to give up 10 bucks for. >_>

[Hourglass]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Southwest and Jetblue are the exceptions. Even those others making a profit, the return is pretty poor.



No I don't work for Air Canada, just trying to point out there are experiences out there quite different from yours.



Air Canada makes YVR-SYD work with a distance of 12,484 km. Why can't SQ, without poaching off traffic from a third market?

The issue isn't distance, its the connection. One connection in AMS is hardly a severe impediment to travel, especially when its between two carriers with the same ownership.

Look, since you seem to want to throw in extraneous issues, I'm going to make my train of thought very simple:

(I) Many of Canada's current bilaterals with other countries are outdated and favor Toronto and Montreal at the expense of Vancouver. Example: France - Canada. This puts YVR at a disadvantage against other US west coast hubs.

(II) The current situation in terms of taxes and fuel surcharges puts YVR (and Air Canada as well) at a disadvantage against other US west coast hubs.

(III) Air Canada has an inherent advantage in Vancouver -- it's North American network -- that it is under-utilizing. Moreover, recent announcements simply confirm that Air Canada seems to consistently favor building routes out of Eastern Canada. Check out the news releases at Air Canada's website if you don't believe me. Now this may indeed be sound business, but then AC shouldn't oppose letting other airlines fly to Vancouver (and don't think AC doesn't have an influence on Transport Canada bilateral negotiations). In the Singapore Airlines case, SQ may have been siphoning off traffic to Korea, but then again, as a Star Alliance partner, Air Canada would have benefited from the connecting traffic out of Vancouver. And consumers benefit from more choice.

Nowhere have I said that I believe in hosing AC. But I do believe that the current situation is not in Vancouver's best interests.

Whatnext, you consistently talk about the 'home side'. Well, Air Canada may be Canada's "Flag Carrier", but it often doesn't feel much like the home side. It doesn't have a single representative on its board of directors from Western Canada. It's hub is Toronto. And it has consistently favored consolidating traffic to Eastern Canada, particularly Toronto.

I would argue that YVR also represents the 'home side' -- a local airport authority that has built Vancouver International Airport into one of the best airports in the world and is competing against US airports for connecting traffic and the accompanying economic benefits.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

not good news for YVR but good for passengers...

Many Canadians flying out of Bellingham International Airport

American airlines advertise in the Lower Mainland

BELLINGHAM (NEWS1130) - The Port of Bellingham has reviewed its numbers and found a record number of passengers used the Bellingham International Airport. However, half of those passengers are Canadian.

About 16,000 Canadians took the drive down to Bellingham rather than using YVR in August.

Dan Zenk with the Port of Bellingham says airlines that use the airport, like Allegiant and Alaska, do advertise for the Bellingham based flights in the Lower Mainland.

He says customers may be looking for a way to cut costs and still take a trip. "Allegiant's model is a low-cost airline where there are value added amenities if one chooses to purchase those. For example, there's no meals served on the flight."

Zenk thinks a fairly strong Canadian dollar may have also attracted more customers from north of the border.

http://www.news1130.com/news/local/more.jsp?content=20091003_110720_7588

IMAGINE . . . that if, from Bellingham Airport, they had nonstops to Tokyo, Osaka, Singapore, Dubai, Paris, Brisbane, London and Rome . . . .

What, oh what, would happen to YVR ? . . . . .

If present trends continue, people might start skipping YVR and fly out of Sea-Tac instead. Once you're in Bellingham, is Seattle all that much further? Then the joke will REALLY be on us . . . . . .

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

IMAGINE . . . that if, from Bellingham Airport, they had nonstops to Tokyo, Osaka, Singapore, Dubai, Paris, Brisbane, London and Rome . . . .

What, oh what, would happen to YVR ? . . . . .

If present trends continue, people might start skipping YVR and fly out of Sea-Tac instead. Once you're in Bellingham, is Seattle all that much further? Then the joke will REALLY be on us . . . . . .

If they improved Amtrak to several trips per day, going to SeaTac would suddenly be a viable option. One train and a short LRT ride.

If they picked up a direct flight to Kansai International in Osaka, I'd take it in a heart-beat. Sure beats going through SFO or NAR.

[nova9]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

IMAGINE . . . that if, from Bellingham Airport, they had nonstops to Tokyo, Osaka, Singapore, Dubai, Paris, Brisbane, London and Rome . . . .

What, oh what, would happen to YVR ? . . . . .

If present trends continue, people might start skipping YVR and fly out of Sea-Tac instead. Once you're in Bellingham, is Seattle all that much further? Then the joke will REALLY be on us . . . . . .

Let's be thankful then that the small little bellingham airport cannot handle more traffic or larger planes without years of renovation and more land.

to be honest, i've never flown out of sea-tac for economics sake. i've never had a situation (personally) where the savings were so great that they enticed me to endure a border crossing then drive 2 hours south, pay for long term parking at american rates, and not have a last chance to eat decent food before flying off. Haha. The only times I've ever flown out of Sea-Tac was if it was part of the itinerary.

I stupidly just budget in the added expense of flying out of YVR.

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

IMAGINE . . . that if, from Bellingham Airport, they had nonstops to Tokyo, Osaka, Singapore, Dubai, Paris, Brisbane, London and Rome . . . .

What, oh what, would happen to YVR ? . . . . .

If present trends continue, people might start skipping YVR and fly out of Sea-Tac instead. Once you're in Bellingham, is Seattle all that much further? Then the joke will REALLY be on us . . . . . .

many use seatac - its just so much cheaper especially for flying within the states or to europe - i looked at some flights from seattle - london and they were $400 cheaper from seatac funny thing was on the way back they stopped in vancover before heading back to seattle

there is just more competition to euope - you can fly liberia to spain - it flys via chicago though but is quite cheap - liberia also flies onto south africa from spain - i looked at fares once it was about $1100 everything included - from here it was $1400 + taxes and fees

my family from overseas had to fly into seattle once because they couldn't land in canada directly - they had to get a visa in seattle - so it was needed

once i flew on a buddy pass with delta airlines out of seatac and back into YVR - sometimes you can arrange flights that do that fly out of seatac and back into YVR - a few options exist to do that

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by nova9

Let's be thankful then that the small little bellingham airport cannot handle more traffic or larger planes without years of renovation and more land.

to be honest, i've never flown out of sea-tac for economics sake. i've never had a situation (personally) where the savings were so great that they enticed me to endure a border crossing then drive 2 hours south, pay for long term parking at american rates, and not have a last chance to eat decent food before flying off. Haha. The only times I've ever flown out of Sea-Tac was if it was part of the itinerary.

I stupidly just budget in the added expense of flying out of YVR.

I flew out of SeaTac when flying to New York once when I was younger and had less disposable income. Wouldn't do it now, unless it was a huge difference or a more convenient flight or a better airline.

Eg. On a trip to Osaka, if I'm going to have to transfer anyhow, I'd rather transfer somewhere I can stop for a few days, like Hawaii.

As for parking, Seattle has pretty cheap long-term parking just off Airport land. A couple dollars a day, if I recall correctly.

I'd only fly out of Seattle now if they offered a direct flight where there wasn't one here. For me, it's worth it to fly directly to my destination rather than struggle with an unfamiliar airport and risk missing a flight or a delayed flight or double my chance of lost/broken baggage, etc.

The Link Light rail and extra Amtrak train made Seattle a WHOLE lot more attractive in my book.

[wrenegade]

My girlfriend and I are saving $700 each on our flights to South Africa by flying out of Bellingham in December. That almost pays for our 3 days of Safari. Well worth the hassle of crossing the border and getting down there.

[sacrifice333]

Originally Posted by awvan

My girlfriend and I are saving $700 each on our flights to South Africa by flying out of Bellingham in December. That almost pays for our 3 days of Safari. Well worth the hassle of crossing the border and getting down there.

Safari is something everyone should do if they have the chance!

My wife and I are just returning from a trip to Europe & Africa which included five amazing days in the Massai Mara.

[WarrenC12]

Just to add to the list, I'm flying out of Seattle to Mexico in January. We are saving about $600 for us as a couple. We have friends in Seattle we can stay with overnight and fly out in the morning. Without this connection we probably wouldn't be doing it.

[yesheh]

I've flown to the states maybe only once or twice out of Vancouver. In fact, despite residing north of the line, I've probably flown out of SeaTac more than YVR. While it adds 6h to the round trip, the savings is incredible, and seeing that YVR is an hour away by car (despite living in the Vancouver area) it's not that much different.

[big T]

Originally Posted by Yume-sama

For economy class, WestJet wins. For business class AC wins by default (as there is no competition...) I have never had a pleasant AC flight attendant, they are always really crusty, and majorly depressed about having to do their job... even in business class. (once I was in business class and overheard the flight attendants joking about the plane crashing, and if it did, at least they'd finally get to do their "REAL" job instead of just being a waitress in the sky). But, I really like the amenities AC offers now, with the new interior, it beats WestJets in-flight service, even in economy. The only reason I take WestJet now is if AC flight schedules are just horribly inconvenient, or if WestJet is cheaper for the little flight between Calgary and Vancouver. So, if you have no standards for customer service, or are easily impressed, go with AC. On long flights having AC power is nice, too.

I will only fly them international if I have no other choice. For the USA, that is usually true.

I'm confused as to whether you like WestJet or AC better... anyway I tried WJ for the first time 3 days ago (coming to Vancouver, incidentally) and it was vastly inferior to the AC domestic economy product in my opinion. The FAs were nice, but then again I very rarely have had grumpy attendants on AC even in economy. Certainly service in business has always been excellent.
Honestly, the current AC product outclasses every european airline I've tried in the past 2 years (BA, AF, LH, LX), and is more or less on par with the asian ones as far as I'm concerned. I wonder if Canadians denigrating AC is not a relic of past experiences (I came to Canada in 2005 so I don't know what the product was like before that).

[Yume-sama]

Yes... that was rather confusing. One of those middle of the night rants. I guess the way to put it is, I like Air Canada's in-flight amenities better, but I like WestJet's customer service a lot better. So, it depends where I am going, and how long the flight is. Usually I will fly WestJet on short trips (Calgary to Vancouver, etc.) but on trans-continental flights (Vancouver to Toronto, etc.), AC and USB Power is a bigger plus than flight attendants who would rather you see you dead, is a minus. Hopefully that makes more sense, now...! Mostly I will go with whoever is cheaper on short flights, where in flight amenities don't really matter.

Air Canada is much better now than they were even 2 years ago. But that reputation is hard to break, without getting those people back on your newly renovated previously rickety old planes.

Like, if I didn't have to, I probably never would have gotten back on that A330 with exposed wiring, broken tray tables, and ripped up seats. Which is now nice and new inside...

[Spork]

I will be flying out of Seattle in December to Colombia and will be saving about $400 for myself (and my friend saves an additional $400), or about 26%. Definitely worth it.

[nova9]

Perhaps YVR should take a poll of how much business they lose, or conduct some survey on customers diverting their $ to Sea-Tac and then send the results to the government.

[Yume-sama]

Is it not just all because of taxes? I don't think that's YVR or any airlines fault. Flying out of Canada is just more expensive. Example, I am going to Boston in March, I just checked out of Seattle it is $249 per person (round trip) for Alaska Airlines direct, out of Vancouver is it $634 per person (round trip) Air Canada, connecting in Montreal or Toronto. This may not hurt other airports, but Vancouver is relatively close to the border, so it becomes more of an issue.

EDIT: Ooops. I was looking at the pre-tax prices... ummm... I blame Air Canada now

[SpongeG]

sea-tac also offers customers something YVR can't - competition - there are more choices to get to europe with multiple carriers to choose from which keeps prices down