Canada Line | Completed

[BCPhil]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Could she not drive to the park and ride at Bridgehouse? I think that might be a better alternative than her current strategy, and it would eliminate one transfer.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Is she clinically insane? I don't think I would let her near my kids (if I had some).

If she was used to driving into the Airport station and parking at the hotel there to take the B-Line, its only an extra few minutes to get to the Bridgeport PnR. And how is walking from Roundhouse in any possible way faster in getting to Hastings than ANY OTHER METHOD?

And if she doesn't live close enough to a bus stop, that's not really Canada Lines fault. Driving to Bridgeport and taking the train would result in better travel times than taking the B-Line. In fact, I think the South Entrance to Canada Line waterfront station is closer to the nearest #20 stop than the B-Line was.

Sometimes I think people are intentionally making their commute hard just to prove their preconceived point. Too many people can't accept being wrong.

I've driven from White Rock to the Bridgeport Park and Ride and taken the train into downtown. Easy as pie. I can do the whole trip in 50 minutes, compared to best attempt of about 40 minutes driving; add in the time it takes to find a parking spot downtown, and it easily matches or exceeds taking the train.

[CLC]

^ Well put.

If she was willing to drive to Airport Station(Delta hotel parking lot) in the past. Why not she now drive all the way to Marine Drive (it is pretty easy to find unlimited parking space nearby & pay 1-zone fare). Given the time she travels in the morning, it is not that busy on the bridges. On her way back , it may be a bit more traffic but still an okay option.

[mrjauk]

On a good day, she'd get there in 45-50 minutes -- almost an hour on a bad day.

Now she has to get out of bed 20 minutes earlier, drive from her west Richmond home to a bus stop at Blundell and No. 1 Roads, take the 401 to the Brighouse Canada Line station, before taking the train to Waterfront Station where she catches the Hastings bus.

An exhausting and inconvenient 65 minutes later, Halsey-Brandt gets to work.

So, let's assume that on an average good day, it took her 47.5 minutes to get to work, and took her about 60 minutes on an average bad day. Assuming she is not exaggerating, then her average expected travel time had been about 53.75 minutes.

And we proceed...

Now she has to get out of bed 20 minutes earlier, drive from her west Richmond home to a bus stop at Blundell and No. 1 Roads, take the 401 to the Brighouse Canada Line station, before taking the train to Waterfront Station where she catches the Hastings bus.

So, whereas previously she was driving from her "west Richmond home" to "the airport station bus stop near the Delta Vancouver Hotel", now she chooses to drive only as far as the bus stop at Blundell and No. 1 Road.

This is ridiculous. She's comparing the time it takes to travel (mostly) by bus to the nearest Skytrain station to the time it took her to drive (exclusively) by car from her west Richmond residence to the Delta Airport Hotel? That's where she loses the most time. This is like comparing apples to oranges. What is she had taken the bus from near her west Richmond home to the Delta Airport Hotel instead? Would she have made the trip in an average of 53.75 minutes? Un-—-likely!

This is really lazy reporting, as usual. Let's look at the most comparable travel times:

Scenario 1:

1st stage--Leave from Francis Road and Seafair Dr. (Just a representative west Richmond address) and travel by car to Delta Airport Hotel:

Distance: 7.7 km
Time: About 13 minutes.

2nd and 3rd stages--So the rest of her trip--Delta Airport Hotel to Strathcona school--would have taken about 40 minutes on average.

Scenario 2:

1st Stage: Rather than take the 401 to a Canada Line station, drive from west Richmond to the Richmond/Brighouse Station:

Distance: 6.3 km
Time: 10 minutes.

So, now she's got 43 minutes to get to her school in order for the trip to be comparable in time to the one she had been making prior to September 7th.

2nd Stage: Canada Line to Waterfront Station:

Time: 25 minutes.

Total for stages 1 and 2--35 minutes. Now add five minutes for the time taken to park the car, get up to the platform and also to get out of Waterfront and get to a bus stop waiting for the Hastings bus.

Total before getting on the bus to 592 East Pender street--40 minutes.

3rd Stage:

From Waterfront Station to Strathcona Elementary School (592 East Pender Street), from the Trip Planner app on the Translink website:

Time: 5 minutes (she can take 3 different buses).

So, the total estimated for the trip most comparable to the one she had been taking is 45 minutes, maximum, shaving an average of about 8 minutes off of her travel time.

Remember people: let's always compare like to like.

Conclusion:

Dear Councillor:

If you want to avoid the feeling of exhaustion when arriving at work, drive to the Richmond/Brighouse station, then use Skytrain to Waterfront and take one of 3 possible buses to work. Your trip will take an average of 8 minutes less than the comparable one you had been making prior to September 7th.

[SpongeG]

yah that sounds like a consturction issue - i don't think they did that before

[mrjauk]

Looks like you guys beat me to the punch. I thought the same thing as many of you when I read that she had tried walking from Yaletown to Strathcona. This woman teaches our kids and also holds a political office?!? Yikes!!

"Hmmm...I can stay on the Canada Line all the way to Waterfront (which takes another 3 minutes) and then take a five-minute bus ride to Strathcona, or get off here at Yaletown and walk to Strathcona. Walking might be faster." Jeebus H. C!

[metroXpress]

Originally Posted by deasine

I wouldn't be surprised. Honestly, I was originally expecting a step or two before the entrance, like the ones with the MTR.

This is quite common. And people with wheelchairs would have to use the ramp and take the elevator.

I am glad that we don't have the steps.

[igeneer]

I can't help but notice a lot of commentary comparing MTR to Skytrain... It's awful that they designed some of our station entrances sloping downwards, but honestly, does Hong Kong, or Tokyo even compare to Vancouver?! It's a bit far-fetched to expect designers from Vancouver to implement systems that exist in cities with far greater pop. density and population base (although it would be nice). Seems, however, that stuff in Vancouver and other Canadian cities is done poorly the first time, and slowly repaired (take for example all the chopped up newly paved streets in Van that look like — a year after they're finished due to utility relocation etc...) Forward planning is not our forte..

Today was the first time taking the Canada Line for me all the way from the airport, and I was very pleased with the service. The only thing I noticed was that in the domestic terminal still doesn't have good signage directing people the the C-Line. The signs still show arrows to ground level public transportation... If Canada Line attendants weren't there, the ticket line-ups would've taken forever. Poorly designed tickets machines with change and ticket dispensing very low down, making it difficult for some people to reach their tickets... It's about time we have at least a smart card system (easy to set up, won't need turnstiles right away) so that people without a monthly pass don't have to wait in line behind slow tourists for the 2 ticket machines.

Sorry for the rant, but it feels like we need to focus our energy on things that can actually be done, rather than lamenting about what should've been done.

[deasine]

Well that's what I think most of the time: there's no point in crying over spilled milk. Having said that, the flooding issue is a potential problem that is going to haunt us for a while and we need some sort of a solution.

If you were referring to the MTR example with the steps, that wasn't hard for Vancouver to implement. Allen brings up a good point about accessibility, but for most of the underground stations, the elevator's entrance location and the stairs/escalators entrance is separate. Implementing better signage isn't quite far fetched either...

People with monthly passes never line up because there is no need -__-"

[Vonny]

Originally Posted by BCPhil

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Is she clinically insane? I don't think I would let her near my kids (if I had some).

If she was used to driving into the Airport station and parking at the hotel there to take the B-Line, its only an extra few minutes to get to the Bridgeport PnR. And how is walking from Roundhouse in any possible way faster in getting to Hastings than ANY OTHER METHOD?

And if she doesn't live close enough to a bus stop, that's not really Canada Lines fault. Driving to Bridgeport and taking the train would result in better travel times than taking the B-Line. In fact, I think the South Entrance to Canada Line waterfront station is closer to the nearest #20 stop than the B-Line was.

Sometimes I think people are intentionally making their commute hard just to prove their preconceived point. Too many people can't accept being wrong.

I've driven from White Rock to the Bridgeport Park and Ride and taken the train into downtown. Easy as pie. I can do the whole trip in 50 minutes, compared to best attempt of about 40 minutes driving; add in the time it takes to find a parking spot downtown, and it easily matches or exceeds taking the train.

In the same spirit, Delta Optimist had a similar weird story

Originally Posted by http://www2.canada.com/deltaoptimist/news/letters/story.html?id=7b0689a9-6e92-4e0d-8386-8ee31aff7859

Published: Saturday, September 26, 2009

Editor:

Re: Sky didn’t fall as riders make switch to Canada Line, Community Comment, Sept. 19

I disagree with Nathalie Heiberg-Harrison’s conclusions about the train’s usefulness. Furthermore, her “Chicken Little” characterization was off the mark because nobody predicted the world would end.

The travelling public did predict that commuting times would be negatively impacted (I thought it would add 10 minutes to my ride) despite TransLink’s predictions that travel from Ladner to UBC would be quicker.

After trying every reasonable combination of bus-to-train-to-bus connection I could find over the last two weeks, I have found that both predictions were wrong.

My prediction of a 10-minute increase was out by a factor of two — my commute time has actually increased by 20 minutes each way when riding the train.

So, by that measure, I think that predictions of worse transit service from South Delta have been proven correct. No, the world hasn’t ended, but the train has not lived up to its intended purpose of improving the public transit experience.

Judging by conversations with other bus passengers, I am not alone.

Minimizing commuting time on public transit is all about minimizing transfer time; fast vehicles alone are not enough. Rides such as Bridgeport to 41st Avenue are simply too short to compensate for the longer transfer times built into the new system.

It’s easy to squander all the benefit of a high-speed train run with a lengthy transfer. It’s a shame that TransLink was not upfront about this reality during its planning and open houses.

Remember the Fast Cat ferries? Same effect is at play with the train.

The comment about the new bus lane south of the Oak Street Bridge is a red herring because its only linkage with the train is political expediency. It could have been built long before the train was conceived. If TransLink was serious about eliminating bottlenecks for buses, it could build a southbound “fast bus lane” on Highway 99 at Westminster Highway.

There is no doubt the train has degraded the commuting from Ladner to UBC. Perhaps other routes have been improved, but it’s hard to judge the overall balance. TransLink has never provided an unbiased assessment of who benefits and who pays, but it’s my suspicion that overall commuting from South Delta has also been degraded.

In conclusion, I will use the 601-480, just as I did before the train was built. I’ve tried the train in all sorts of route combinations, but nothing works well.

But I guess the train will move lots of well-heeled Olympic fans, and that was the main reason for its construction, wasn’t it?

PS: How harder it makes your commute to take a bus directly from White Rock instead to drive or in other word what could make you take the bus in white rock?

[CLC]

Originally Posted by deasine

If you were referring to the MTR example with the steps, that wasn't hard for Vancouver to implement. Allen brings up a good point about accessibility, but for most of the underground stations, the elevator's entrance location and the stairs/escalators entrance is separate. Implementing better signage isn't quite far fetched either...

As far as accessibility concerns for wheelchair , you have to look further away from MTR example. As far as I know, the Kaohsiung Rapid Transit Metro is one of the most accessible new system.
Detail: http://www.krtco.com.tw/en/service/service-1_3.aspx

Disabled access and slope to elevator:


A pity is that the Kaohsiung Metro has poor ridership since opened last year, ~120,000 per day.

[igeneer]

People with monthly passes never line up because there is no need -__-

I have a Zone 1 monthly pass and had to buy an add fare at the Airport, which was a huge pain in the —. Just saying that if we had smart cards (even without turnstiles), people could use their card to go on the train, which would have topped up credit. The line attendants could still check that people have valid fare...

[deasine]

Originally Posted by igeneer

I have a Zone 1 monthly pass and had to buy an add fare at the Airport, which was a huge pain in the —. Just saying that if we had smart cards (even without turnstiles), people could use their card to go on the train, which would have topped up credit. The line attendants could still check that people have valid fare...

I'm sorry, I totally forgot the add-fare part for adult monthly passes. It's just I've always had a three-zone fare, I never had to worry about that. Sorry.

But yes, I hear you, we need smart cards, but it makes enforcing much easier with turnstiles. They are coming... soon.

Newest development with the Canada Line... I can't confirm that ProTrans BC is changing the "Way Out" signs to "Out," but I know they are getting rid of some of the "No Entry" signs.

For instance, in this photo at Langara-49th, No Entry signs like that are being removed.


Photography from Deasine on Picasa

Each single character and icon are stickers actually, unlike the SkyTrain signs, which are entire boards. This makes changing signs much faster and much easier.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Allen

^ it's only a sticker. They can just replace it with another one.

But how is "Way Out" confusing for people? Most people can find their way out without looking at the signs. It's not like we have some mega stations here.

How ridiculous. People can't figure out the meaning of "way out"? Is it a language thing for some new arrivals?

[nova9]

Originally Posted by whatnext

How ridiculous. People can't figure out the meaning of "way out"? Is it a language thing for some new arrivals?

who stated that it was new arrivals that had a problem with way out? just askin.

[cabotp]

Originally Posted by deasine

I'm sorry, I totally forgot the add-fare part for adult monthly passes. It's just I've always had a three-zone fare, I never had to worry about that. Sorry.

But yes, I hear you, we need smart cards, but it makes enforcing much easier with turnstiles. They are coming... soon.

Newest development with the Canada Line... I can't confirm that ProTrans BC is changing the "Way Out" signs to "Out," but I know they are getting rid of some of the "No Entry" signs.

For instance, in this photo at Langara-49th, No Entry signs like that are being removed.


Photography from Deasine on Picasa

Each single character and icon are stickers actually, unlike the SkyTrain signs, which are entire boards. This makes changing signs much faster and much easier.

I always thought the "no entry" signs were stupid in where they applied. In one sense the sign says trains are this way, but in another sense is says you should not go that way. So you end up standing there wondering if you should go or not go.

[CLC]

interesting wayfinding sign on Richmond guideway, I never aware of such sign existed
(photo credit : Atomic Taco's photostream on flickr)

[Hot Rod]

I have a solution for everybody:

why not have rush hour Express B-Line service? Have the service as a true BRT (as possible) with stops ONLY at say Richmond-to-Downtown, Delta-to-Downtown, White Rock-to-Downtown, Tsawassen-to-Downtown (no stops in-between). Have this during the morning and evening rush, and give the handfull of busses doing it, signal priority. Furthermore, have it go down Cambie instead of the B-Line Granville.

To me, this would augment Canada Line yet provide crush rush flexibility that Translink could shift once people got comfortable with Canada Line and/or moved closer to work.

I am very surprised that Translink got rid of the B-Line so quickly. In a commuter-centric city such as Vancouver, why not have a modified express route (like I mentioned). I like that we have a new subway, but they either need to re-work the busses that feed/support it and do much better with getting people on/off the trains OR implement a crush express rush hour bus from the suburbs.

Translink should be ashamed to have people's commutes and transfers increase at such a high level. They should be making things easier (and or faster) instead of longer and more difficult. Such a strategy will only lead to Inner Richmond use of transit while the outer suburbs just drive in (why hassle with it all). ....

[cabotp]

Originally Posted by Hot Rod

I have a solution for everybody:

why not have rush hour Express B-Line service? Have the service as a true BRT (as possible) with stops ONLY at say Richmond-to-Downtown, Delta-to-Downtown, White Rock-to-Downtown, Tsawassen-to-Downtown (no stops in-between). Have this during the morning and evening rush, and give the handfull of busses doing it, signal priority. Furthermore, have it go down Cambie instead of the B-Line Granville.

The complainers you will notice are not going downtown. Their stop is somewhere along Granville. So if a bus went directly downtown it still would not help them and they would still be complaining.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by CLC

interesting wayfinding sign on Richmond guideway, I never aware of such sign existed
(photo credit : Atomic Taco's photostream on flickr)

The dude running for the door in green is the standard all over Europe.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by nova9

who stated that it was new arrivals that had a problem with way out? just askin.

Nobody. I'm just trying to determine who could possibly misunderstand the term "Way Out". Seems like pretty basic English to me.