Millennium Line - Evergreen Extension | Completed

[hollywoodnorth]

Originally Posted by deasine

I think this looks a little better:


Original illustration from the Ministry of Transportation of British Columbia, edited by Deasine - Hosted on Flickr

Okay I might have overdid it on the buildings, but you know what I mean. They don't all have to be residential: there should be at least two towers for businesses: think Metrotown and Metro Towers.

Lincoln Stn, of course, is still needed.

yup plus you can fill in the Coquitlam Center parking lot with Towers also.

the mall will be build TO the station. Just as you will see happen at Lougheed Mall and brentwood. When the malls expand next you will see them do so TOWARDS the stations.

[GeeCee]

The mall is pretty much near capacity for parking right now, especially given the fact that what was once their overflow parking has been / is now being developed. I really doubt they'll put up a parking structure let alone get approval for one through Coquitlam city hall..

[hollywoodnorth]

Originally Posted by GeeCee

The mall is pretty much near capacity for parking right now, especially given the fact that what was once their overflow parking has been / is now being developed. I really doubt they'll put up a parking structure let alone get approval for one through Coquitlam city hall..

there is this great technology called digging! you dig DOWN and build the parking there! cool eh?

Looking at the Traditional Metrotown aka Eatons Center. how much marking do you see from the street? not alot....95% of it is underground where it should be

and Coquitlam City Council has approved MASSIVE above grade parking lots b4. IKEA and THE CASINO are 2 that come to mind

[GeeCee]

Well sure, but can you really add underground parking that makes sense at this point? I highly doubt they can add underground parking underneath the existing structure.

And the parking structure at Ikea is falling apart. Swamp/reclaimed land isn't the best to build such structures I believe.. The casino, sure, but that's fairly off the beaten path. There isn't anything tall that I can think of along the Barnet/Lougheed corridor on either side.

[cabotp]

Originally Posted by lightrail

Nice rendering. But what's with the three-car WCE train? Not suggesting shorter WCE trains are they? Or was the artist just too lazy to draw the other six cars.

I agree the station would make more sense over the Barnett Highway. The ridership figures seem very high - what year is that 2020? That's 10 times what the useless 97 B-line carries today. Don't forget WCE will still carry most of downtown Vancouver traffic. In fact, the SkyTrain may make the WCE more popular as people can take SkyTrain to Port Moody and then WCE to Vancouver. I think 40,000 per day is more likely.

Don't forget that the WCE only runs in one direction during peak time. So for those people who had to run against the flow or during none peak would be unable to take it. So you have all of those people will take the Evergreen Line

And while yes almost no one uses the 97 B-Line. That is because it is not the quickest route to Coq Centre. Even translinks planner doesn't recommend it. I can see people from other routes jumping on board as well.


Finally all the major malls in the Metro Area will be accessible by rapid transit. So I could go from Metrotown to Coq center without having to drive or take one single bus.

[deasine]

All but Guildford... but will be served by the Surrey rapid transit expansion

[cabotp]

^ Oops I forgot about that mall.

Well if the Expo Line extension is ever built.

[Dave2]

I'm guessing the Millennium Line's frequency will be doubled as a result with Evergreen trains starting from VCC. But what will happen to the Millennium Line between Lougheed and Columbia remains.

Double Co-ordinated (or whatever it was called); anything else is BS, especially the option that required 3 trains between Production Way and 22nd Stg

[cabotp]

Originally Posted by mr.x

I'm guessing the Millennium Line's frequency will be doubled as a result with Evergreen trains starting from VCC. But what will happen to the Millennium Line between Lougheed and Columbia remains.

Well the M-Line is what would go through Braid and Saperton. So what ever frequency the M-Line has is the frequency those stations would have.

[WaxItYourself]

Originally Posted by cabotp

^ Oops I forgot about that mall.

Well if the Expo Line extension is ever built.

I think they plan to bring the expo line across to langley via the Fraser Highway and have an LRT running between Newton Exchange, Central City and Guildford. Hopefully, if this happens, they also breing it across the new Port Mann Bridge and connect the end of it with one of the either the line shown in the diagram above or the meeting point of the Evergreeen and Millenium lines.

[cabotp]

Even if they did that it would still be accessible by train.

[NucksFanInVan]

Can anyone comment on how they figure the Evergreen line will have 10,400 pph capacity on the Evergreen Line in 2021 and only 6,300 on the Canada Line (providing direct and unique connection to downtown) by 2037?

Even if that 10,400 is bi-directional it still seems like they're living in different worlds...

But let's give them the benefit of the doubt and say 80% of the 10,400 is inbound traffic. Now let's say that only 50% of that 80% (40% of the total) are going to one of the two biggest transit destinations in the region (downtown or UBC/Central Broadway). Let's say we have an even split with 20% of the 10,400 going to each.

Seriously - is there anyone out there who thinks the Expo line and 99 B Line can handle an extra 2000 people per hour, peak hour peak direction? Didn't think so, not here.

So now let's compare Evergreen Line to Canada Line (warts and all):
$1.4B vs $2B (70%)
6 stations vs. 16 stations (38%)
11 km length vs. 19 km length (58%)
3-4 km of track at grade vs. 1-2 km of track at grade
0 major water crossings vs. 2 major crossings (false creek, north arm)
± same length of TBM work for each
no new heavy OMC works vs a whole new facility
direct downtown access vs. routing thru major choke point

I'm a huge fan of transit development. But I'm also a taxpayer. Can someone please convince me this project isn't a giant white elephant compared to other transit priorities?

Unless the gov't has bloated those $$ estimates to make sure it comes in "under budget", I think some of the posters here will get their gold-plated station designs.

[mr.x]

^ there's a section that requires a 2-3 km bored tunnel, which adds quite a bit when you compared to the other parts which are either elevated or at-grade. The longer stations will only increase the overall project cost marginally.

[NucksFanInVan]

Originally Posted by mr.x

^ there's a section that requires a 2-3 km bored tunnel, which adds quite a bit when you compared to the other parts which are either elevated or at-grade. The longer stations will only increase the overall project cost marginally.

Yes, but the Canada Line is also bored tunnel from Olympic Village to north of Pender Street. Are you implying that the bored tunnel is such a significant part of the construction cost in either case that it offsets all the other factors?

I agree the platform lengths won't be a huge cost. I think translink should have told InTransit that their alignment had to allow for extension to 80 m to allow 2 more C-cars, even if the stations weren't roughed in to that size.

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by NucksFanInVan

Yes, but the Canada Line is also bored tunnel from Olympic Village to north of Pender Street. Are you implying that the bored tunnel is such a significant part of the construction cost in either case that it offsets all the other factors?

I agree the platform lengths won't be a huge cost. I think translink should have told InTransit that their alignment had to allow for extension to 80 m to allow 2 more C-cars, even if the stations weren't roughed in to that size.

I'm sure inflated costs had much to do with it. For instance the Evergreen LRT option was $950-million for a 2006 start and 2009 completion, but it increased to $1.25-billion when the construction start date was moved to 2010. I'd wager an Evergreen SkyTrain option in 2006 would have cost something like $1.1-billion...it would be fairer to use something like a $1.1-billion figure to compare it with the Canada Line's $2.05-billion figure made in 2005.

RAVCO, not Translink, told InTransitBC to design a line capable of reaching a capacity of 15,000 pphpd. InTransitBC was allowed to do whatever it wanted to do to satisfy that requirement - and that was a very poor decision.

[metroXpress]

Originally Posted by WaxItYourself

I think they plan to bring the expo line across to langley via the Fraser Highway and have an LRT running between Newton Exchange, Central City and Guildford. Hopefully, if this happens, they also breing it across the new Port Mann Bridge and connect the end of it with one of the either the line shown in the diagram above or the meeting point of the Evergreeen and Millenium lines.

Probably not an LRT running on the Port Mann Bridge. We are going to see Rapid Bus Connections between 152nd and Coquitlam.

[SpongeG]

when its done - but no one knows what could be in 10 or 20 years - at least they are preparing for it

[Vonny]

Originally Posted by NucksFanInVan

Can anyone comment on how they figure the Evergreen line will have 10,400 pph capacity on the Evergreen Line in 2021 and only 6,300 on the Canada Line (providing direct and unique connection to downtown) by 2037?

Even if that 10,400 is bi-directional it still seems like they're living in different worlds...

But let's give them the benefit of the doubt and say 80% of the 10,400 is inbound traffic. Now let's say that only 50% of that 80% (40% of the total) are going to one of the two biggest transit destinations in the region (downtown or UBC/Central Broadway). Let's say we have an even split with 20% of the 10,400 going to each.

Seriously - is there anyone out there who thinks the Expo line and 99 B Line can handle an extra 2000 people per hour, peak hour peak direction? Didn't think so, not here.

So now let's compare Evergreen Line to Canada Line (warts and all):
$1.4B vs $2B (70%)
6 stations vs. 16 stations (38%)
11 km length vs. 19 km length (58%)
3-4 km of track at grade vs. 1-2 km of track at grade
0 major water crossings vs. 2 major crossings (false creek, north arm)
± same length of TBM work for each
no new heavy OMC works vs a whole new facility
direct downtown access vs. routing thru major choke point

I'm a huge fan of transit development. But I'm also a taxpayer. Can someone please convince me this project isn't a giant white elephant compared to other transit priorities?

Unless the gov't has bloated those $$ estimates to make sure it comes in "under budget", I think some of the posters here will get their gold-plated station designs.

Province is acting like Rogers company selling an iphone:
they tell to Translink, take skytrain for a dime on the dollars($400Millions, senior government paying the rest), but sure you will be on the hook with very expensive monthly (operating) bill for ages...

I agree with you:
ridership figure seems seriously inflated, and I guess they take account the existing segment Lougheed/VCC, because otherwise the math doesn't really add-up...and even if they are:

where all those people are going after Broadway/VCC?
no room for them on any transit route, all saturated west of Broadway.


but well, lot of people buy iphone...and that will make still the more urgent an extension of the Millenium west...unles people figure out evergreen line as a disaster, to not move forward on the Millenium ?

bottom line, political interference lead to wrong allocation of capital...

[vansky]

how much would a line under broadway cost, anyone coudl estimate it?

[deasine]

The number is $2.8 billion.