Millennium Line - Evergreen Extension | Completed - Page 86

Kwik-E-Mart · #**1701** Posted **Sep 10, 2009, 3:51 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by deasine

As mentioned above, the minimum length of the platform must fit at least a four-car MK I as TransLink is expected to have the MK Is run on the Millennium Line. MK IIs would be used primarily on the Expo Line (four car ones).

That means we can do it without the standard 80m platform as long as it can fit four-car Mk I/two-car Mk II trains as per twoNeurons, which also means we can have alternating trains bound for Coquitlam Centre and Columbia along the Millennium Line. This should be better than the proposed shuttle that only service between Columbia and Lougheed Stations.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gordon

Can the Millemium Line platforms handle 6 car mark1 trains?

If the stations can handle four Mk II trains today then it can definitely handle six Mk Is.

twoNeurons · #**1702** Posted **Sep 10, 2009, 5:00 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gordon

Can the Millemium Line platforms handle 6 car mark1 trains?

Millennium Line platforms are currently IDENTICAL in length to the Expo Line:

80m

This will fit:

4-car MKI (48m)
6-car MKI (72m)
4-car MKII (67m )
5-car MKII (~84m) ( edges would overhang but all doors on platform )

MKIs are ~12m (not sure if that's exact)
MKIIs are 16.7m (17m allows for some room for the coupling between sets)

There is talk of extending the Expo Line platforms to handle 6-car MKIIs, which would need 100m platforms, but I don't know if it would honestly be worth it for at least another 20 years.

Kwik-E-Mart · #**1703** Posted **Sep 10, 2009, 5:33 PM**

Does anyone know if the MkIs can be refurb'ed at a reasonable cost given these tough times?

WarrenC12 · #**1704** Posted **Sep 10, 2009, 5:44 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

Millennium Line platforms are currently IDENTICAL in length to the Expo Line:

80m

This will fit:

4-car MKI (48m)
6-car MKI (72m)
4-car MKII (67m )
5-car MKII (~84m) ( edges would overhang but all doors on platform )

MKIs are ~12m (not sure if that's exact)
MKIIs are 16.7m (17m allows for some room for the coupling between sets)

There is talk of extending the Expo Line platforms to handle 6-car MKIIs, which would need 100m platforms, but I don't know if it would honestly be worth it for at least another 20 years.

Yes 6 car MK2 and 8 car MK1 was the plan I read. From what I can tell they aren't really at capacity as far as train frequency, even at peak times. When you are running solid 6 car MK1 and 4 car MK2 trains at max frequency, then spend the money.

5-car MKII is pretty funny.. that might be a scary ride on the last car.

twoNeurons · #**1705** Posted **Sep 10, 2009, 6:39 PM**

I'm hoping that the next set of MKIIs ordered are 3-car sets with the C-Car in the middle. Pair them up with the new 2-car "Black" MKIIs and run them all as 5-car sets. If they do extend the platforms, I'm sure two 3-Car Sets could fit on the platform just as well as thre 2-car sets.

Or in other words (All MKII):

Now Possible (80m platforms):
2 x 2-car (4-car)
(|||||||][|||||||)-(|||||||][|||||||)
3-Car + 2-Car (5-Car)
(|||||||]|||||||||[|||||||)-(|||||||][|||||||)

Future (100m platforms): (6-Car)
3 x 2-Car
(|||||||][|||||||)-(|||||||][|||||||)-(|||||||][|||||||)
2 x 3-car
(|||||||]|||||||||[|||||||)-(|||||||]|||||||||[|||||||)

DKaz · #**1706** Posted **Sep 10, 2009, 6:50 PM**

No it's

(|||||||][|||||||)-(|||||||][|||||||)-(|||||||]

mrjauk · #**1707** Posted **Sep 10, 2009, 7:11 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by DKaz

No it's

(|||||||][|||||||)-(|||||||][|||||||)-(|||||||]

I think you made a spelling mistake.

twoNeurons · #**1708** Posted **Sep 10, 2009, 7:16 PM**

It'll be cool to be at the front and come barreling into a station only to overhang the end of the platform, especially at a station like Nanaimo with such a nice view of the city.

lightrail · #**1709** Posted **Sep 10, 2009, 7:56 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

I'm hoping that the next set of MKIIs ordered are 3-car sets with the C-Car in the middle. Pair them up with the new 2-car "Black" MKIIs and run them all as 5-car sets. If they do extend the platforms, I'm sure two 3-Car Sets could fit on the platform just as well as thre 2-car sets.

Or in other words (All MKII):

Now Possible (80m platforms):
2 x 2-car (4-car)
(|||||||][|||||||)-(|||||||][|||||||)
3-Car + 2-Car (5-Car)
(|||||||]|||||||||[|||||||)-(|||||||][|||||||)

Future (100m platforms): (6-Car)
3 x 2-Car
(|||||||][|||||||)-(|||||||][|||||||)-(|||||||][|||||||)
2 x 3-car
(|||||||]|||||||||[|||||||)-(|||||||]|||||||||[|||||||)

I understand Translink are looking at this. A major drawback is the OMC is designed for servicing 2-car MKII (th elongest that will fit the maintenance facility). Currently, a 4-car MKII is divided into two trains for servicing. If they bought 3-car MKII trains, the train cannot be split and would not fit the current maintenance facility at Edmonds. So money would need to be spent on the OMC if 3-car trains were purchased. Might be cheaper and more efficent to spend the money on extending platforms and running 3x2car tranisets (6-car trains) instead.

TransitJack · #**1710** Posted **Sep 10, 2009, 8:37 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by lightrail

I understand Translink are looking at this. A major drawback is the OMC is designed for servicing 2-car MKII (th elongest that will fit the maintenance facility). Currently, a 4-car MKII is divided into two trains for servicing. If they bought 3-car MKII trains, the train cannot be split and would not fit the current maintenance facility at Edmonds. So money would need to be spent on the OMC if 3-car trains were purchased. Might be cheaper and more efficent to spend the money on extending platforms and running 3x2car tranisets (6-car trains) instead.

This is the same issue for any dreams of CLine C cars, not only would they require the expense of the car, the platform extensions, they would also require high expansion costs in their OMC.

For Skytrain, I think there is too much loss in flexibility by using C cars. They can only ever be a C car, where there is not a huge cost savings versus a typical car. I think until a decision is made on funding regarding MkI replacements it is in the best interest to buy regular a/b cars.

TransitJack · #**1711** Posted **Sep 10, 2009, 8:41 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kwik-E-Mart

Does anyone know if the MkIs can be refurb'ed at a reasonable cost given these tough times?

In a way would be ashamed to lose them, only for nostalgia's sake. I think they had some plans to do minor refurb's IF they don't get increased revenue sources, however I think Mark I's have so much service life travelling since the 80's, that some might not be sensible to refurbish.

I seem to recall seeing 6car mk1's once upon a time, but not in a while. Any pictures of a 6car set?

Metro-One · #**1712** Posted **Sep 10, 2009, 8:46 PM**

They ran 6 car MK1s during the record cold snap last winter. I think if we are ever to get C-cars for the E/M lines the best time to do it would be during the Evergreen Line construction phase. because in constructing the Evergreen Line the plan is to build a new OMC yard as well to handle all the new cars that will come with all of these future expansions. At that time could they not build this new OMC to fit 3 car sets?

twoNeurons · #**1713** Posted **Sep 10, 2009, 9:03 PM**

6-car trains were run when they were doing work on Columbia. Trains ran less frequently. We'll likely see 6-car trains soon enough. There would appear to be plenty of room at the OMC for this kind of expansion.

I doubt platform extensions on all Expo line stations would be anywhere NEAR the cost of renovating the OMC. Besides, they'll need another OMC anyway if the PMC is built. That OMC could be built to handle C-Car trains.

WarrenC12 · #**1714** Posted **Sep 10, 2009, 9:04 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metro-One

They ran 6 car MK1s during the record cold snap last winter. I think if we are ever to get C-cars for the E/M lines the best time to do it would be during the Evergreen Line construction phase. because in constructing the Evergreen Line the plan is to build a new OMC yard as well to handle all the new cars that will come with all of these future expansions. At that time could they not build this new OMC to fit 3 car sets?

How much of the Evergreen budget is planned for a new OMC and new cars?

Could enough money be saved by not ordering any cars or building a new OMC?

Before people throw rotten fruit, remember we have what, 36 of the 48 new Mark2s yet to come into service, plus another 24 cars coming in 2010. Assuming all of the Mark1s are left in operation, or refurbished maybe 4 cars at a time, I think this would be enough to get the Evergreen up and running. Better that than nothing.

The next capital project could be a bunch of C cars and a new OMC to handle the longer trainsets. This would be in the 2016 time frame as the 5 year fight for a UBC extension progresses...

A new car is $2m right?

Metro-One · #**1715** Posted **Sep 10, 2009, 9:13 PM**

That is actually not a bad idea, but i am not sure if the new OMC is part of the current coast estimates or not, but i am sure someone here will know.

WarrenC12 · #**1716** Posted **Sep 10, 2009, 9:25 PM**

If somebody can post a link to the latest/most detailed estimate that would help too.

racc · #**1717** Posted **Sep 10, 2009, 9:40 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Oh I agree. My whole point is that the Evergreen line is being built (first) for political reasons, rather than to address ridership issues. These people were promised this line twice, so I sympathize...

It is not being built for political reasons. Rapid transit to Coquitlam Centre is part of the Liveable Region Strategic Plan which the municipalities agreed to years ago. The primary purpose of the line is to shape growth by encouraging high density development around the line. Serving existing ridership is secondary.

The line has been delayed for political reasons.

TransitJack · #**1718** Posted **Sep 10, 2009, 9:44 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metro-One

That is actually not a bad idea, but i am not sure if the new OMC is part of the current coast estimates or not, but i am sure someone here will know.

Isn't there an expansion occurring right now in the existing OMC? as in, adding new tracks, lengthening old to accommodate the newly orded and arriving mkII's?

mr.x · #**1719** Posted **Sep 10, 2009, 10:52 PM**

An OMC expansion to make Edmonds capable of handling 3-car Mark II's would cost millions or at the most tens of millions.

What space that is left to expand at Edmonds was finished earlier this year to accommodate the additional 48-Mark II cars. The expansion cost $30-million. With the 48, Edmonds would be at capacity.

As for the Evergreen Line, I believe the $1.4-billion cost includes the cost to purchase trains and the construction of an OMC whether it be an expansion SkyTrain OMC or for some other incompatible technology (*cringe*).

The price for a single Mark II car is now $3-million. The $2-million figure was from way back in 1999.

Another 24 cars coming in 2010 on top of the 48?

WarrenC12 · #**1720** Posted **Sep 10, 2009, 10:55 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr.x

What space that is left to expand at Edmonds was finished earlier this year to accommodate the additional 48-Mark II cars. The expansion cost $30-million. With the 48, Edmonds would be at capacity.

What exactly is preventing the OMC from further growth at this point? Is there specific land that Translink could go after? It might work out for a good trade of commercial land, since Translink wanted to get into the RE development businsess (last year anyway, plans seem to change daily around there).

And what about the 24 additional cars set to start arriving in 2010?