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  #3821  
Old Posted Sep 4, 2009, 4:12 PM
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Originally Posted by whatnext View Post
Gordo's HST blows $57 million hole in Translink's budget, could force service cuts:
http://www.vancouversun.com/news/sinks+TransLink+million+hole+fare+hike+approved/1960086/story.html
Sadly $57m isn't enough to matter these days.

However the more we can paint Translink's money issues as a provincial government issue, the better.
     
     
  #3822  
Old Posted Sep 4, 2009, 7:02 PM
lightrail lightrail is offline
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I find it amazing how the Liberal government can go from boom to bust so quickly and how it reverses its priorities so fast. I have a feeling the government is in a tail-spin and is out of control. They've really dug themselves a hole here.

Governments are supposed to regulate and stablise. The Government shold be making work, spending money and getting people out spending too; not cutting back and laying off people. By not doing this they're making the situation much much worse. Of course, in the good times they should be taxing higher and trying to dampen the economy - the opposite to what they really do. And finally, don't the Liberals believe in saving for a rainy day - living year to year on income is asking for a disaster and that's what we got.

Come on Gordo - you got yourself and us into this mess - get off your political high horse and fix it!!!
     
     
  #3823  
Old Posted Sep 4, 2009, 7:45 PM
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Originally Posted by lightrail View Post
I find it amazing how the Liberal government can go from boom to bust so quickly and how it reverses its priorities so fast. I have a feeling the government is in a tail-spin and is out of control. They've really dug themselves a hole here.
I'm no cheerleader for campbell, but the economic crisis has really hit resource-based economies hard, very quickly. With the past surpluses, the govt has been paying down debt. I would rather govts be flexible, rather than rigid and stick with a set plan when the landscape has changed. The govt is running a deficit for the next several years, and priorities must be made.

I really hope there is political will for translink/evergreen, but a lot of campbell's political capital has been spent. IMO, there is a lot of regional animosity for more provincial funding for translink/metrovancouver, it will be a tough sell.

A longer-term solution would be a change in governance with translink/metro. translink has to spend, but it is limited with being able to raise funds. IMO, amalgamation may be an answer, so that you would have taxation with representation, have land-use planning with more teeth, but not be subject to regionalization as the prior incarnation of translink was.

And remember perspective - I remeber being surprised when I lived in edmonton when I had to pay for my library card. You have to have priorities, and one of my priorities is a robust transit system in metro.
     
     
  #3824  
Old Posted Sep 4, 2009, 8:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whatnext View Post
Gordo's HST blows $57 million hole in Translink's budget, could force service cuts:
http://www.vancouversun.com/news/sinks+TransLink+million+hole+fare+hike+approved/1960086/story.html
They should make up for it by taking .5% of the HST and giving it to Translink. Many states in the USA use a portion of the state sales tax to fund transit, and even include a specific % increase for a specific amount of time to fund new projects on the propositions that go before voters.

.5% would be enough to cover Translinks expansion plans, and would be less than the overall increase in revenue created by the HST, meaning the provincial government wouldn't be losing money already budgeted towards other things.

The HST is going to cost the average person a bit more per year, so it would be nice to see that money come back in a tangible way (helping us get around in our daily lives).

Even going as far as 1%, giving half to Translink and half to BC Transit would go a long way to improving transit and transportation in this province. Having a reliable and predictable source of revenue would help a lot in long term planning.

And when transit increases the productivity of the economy, more money is generated through the sales tax, meaning a natural growth to the subsidies to cover expanding service.

Using the sales tax for transit makes more sense than using the fuel tax. The goal of Transit is to reduce car usage, with reduced car usage comes reduced fuel tax income, thus lowering revenue for Translink. Add in the loss from Hybrids and fuel efficient cars, and it's not a productive cycle.
     
     
  #3825  
Old Posted Sep 4, 2009, 8:45 PM
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Originally Posted by dreambrother808 View Post
I am not entirely against fare gates. I just think we need to be realistic about them, especially with regard to Translink's current financial difficulties. Most likely, they will cost more than they save, and can we therefore really afford them?

Many of us here seem to want Translink to aspire to some kind of perfection, with every refinement and convenient feature that comes to mind, but in the end all of these dreams require resources. We can pout and demand all we want, but in the face of genuine financial limitations, how rational are our expectations?
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Originally Posted by WarrenC12 View Post
I don't want to turn this political, but the Liberals do need to step up and not keep pointing the finger at Translink. I'm willing to pay more either as a transit user, a driver, or a general taxpayer (I'm all 3) to see Translink get the funding they need.
AMEN!

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Originally Posted by mezzanine View Post
A longer-term solution would be a change in governance with translink/metro. translink has to spend, but it is limited with being able to raise funds. IMO, amalgamation may be an answer, so that you would have taxation with representation, have land-use planning with more teeth, but not be subject to regionalization as the prior incarnation of translink was.
I'm curious as to what you're suggesting here... Can you provide more details?

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Originally Posted by BCPhil View Post
They should make up for it by taking .5% of the HST and giving it to Translink. Many states in the USA use a portion of the state sales tax to fund transit, and even include a specific % increase for a specific amount of time to fund new projects on the propositions that go before voters.
I once spoke to a councillor who had been on the TransLink board since it's inception and until it was reform by Falcon. He said that many politicians on that board had had discussions with the provincial government and were requesting permission to implement a small Municipal Sales Tax, money of which would go to TransLink. In this situation, TransLink would implement it and all the political retribution would be directed at the local board governance rather than the provincial government. I guess the government didn't want to deal with an angry and confused public, as they had to with the vehicle levy. Suffice to say, it obviously never came to fruition.

The stupid thing here is that TransLink was intially designed to give the region more control over it's our transport future. I think the difficulty from the beginning though was two-fold:

1. It followed the Metro Vancouver model of appointed local representation. Because of this, there was no sufficient way for citizens to express their dissent at a decision and remove said politician from office. Perhaps what TL needed was not a professional board, but the direct opposite - a full elected board.

2. TransLink was given limited funding options through it's provincial legislation. Perhaps this was partially due to the lack of visible, accountable decision makers for the organization. It's a simple case of taxation without representation. Because there was nobody in specific control of TransLink, there was this blurred line on who decides what, and thus who is increasing the fees and taxes.

Case in point, the vehicle levy. This was introduced by TransLink and they had full control to implement it - it's in the legislation. They were going to introduce it. However, because people complained loudly enough and partially blamed the provincial government (who were approaching an election and didn't want to lose votes), the NDP vetoed it.

What I'm coming to here is a theory. Perhaps if TransLink had an elected board that was fully accountable to the public for major decisions, this would allow the provincial government to finally push the organization off their desks and give it full autonomy. Then, if TransLink introduces a vehicle levy, there is nobody to blame but the elected leaders of the organization. The provincial government can say, we're sorry, but you elected them, it's not our jurisdiction, and we cannot interfere in their affairs.

The professional board is nothing more than a politicking at its best. The Liberals are trying to say, oh we can't control them, but everyone knows that's not the case, especially with the amount of interference the province does in the organization.
     
     
  #3826  
Old Posted Sep 4, 2009, 9:11 PM
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As I understnd it the original Vehicle Levy was not part of Translink's legislation as it is now so the NDP chose not to pass another unpopular tax.
This time around I think Translin has the right to impliment this without getting Victoria's okay.
     
     
  #3827  
Old Posted Sep 4, 2009, 9:30 PM
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I think the answer is a little simpler. As mentioned above (0.5% of HST), just give them more out of general revenue. That's the model that other jurisdictions used.

As for who should run it, I'd like to see Metro Vancouver amalgamated, and let a board run it that answers to that council of elected officials. Stop the infighting. It only takes a few morons (Corrigan, Trasolini) to throw a monkey wrench into regional plans.

This whole thing is looking like it will blow up, and it's going to put more egg on the face of the Provincial gov't (no matter what party), as nobody really knows the Translink members, but they do know the province has the power to do what they want.

Gordo and Falcon stood up there and talked up a $20B transit plan. Then what, they turn around to Translink and tell them to make it happen? Not so fast pal, you wanted the TV spotlight, now you make it happen. It doesn't help that we are getting ignored by the feds for the most part, as usual.
     
     
  #3828  
Old Posted Sep 4, 2009, 9:36 PM
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Global noon news reporting that the evergreen line COULD be postponed.... Similarly to what they said regarding BCP.... methinks they are just getting this out now to see publics reaction before proceeding

thatbeing said.... i think Prov govt should get rid of translink.... and pay for it themselves.... ( mind you CMBC, SKYTRAIN, Protran etc are all seperate operating companies) the parent organization needs to go and to be replaced by the govt....

heck if they could do it to tourism BC... they sure can do it now

(note to the BCLiberalloyalists: this is a nonpolitical political comment that flow with the rest of the talk right now)
     
     
  #3829  
Old Posted Sep 4, 2009, 10:25 PM
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Global noon news reporting that the evergreen line COULD be postponed.... Similarly to what they said regarding BCP.... methinks they are just getting this out now to see publics reaction before proceeding
The gov't had a great chance to highlight large public infrastructure projects (BC Place, Evergreen) during the budget as things they were doing to stimulate the economy. The fact that neither were mentioned is not a great sign.

If only there was an opposition party to help keep this government honest...
     
     
  #3830  
Old Posted Sep 4, 2009, 10:32 PM
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In Mission/Abbotsford, there are many empty buses (yes running revenue service) running around and I haven't even heard a peep about service cuts yet. Totally unfair. This move to Translink though noble in cause and intent has eventually screwed us over... Perhaps the provincial government is still telling us "told you so, now hand the transit system back over to BC Transit".
     
     
  #3831  
Old Posted Sep 5, 2009, 12:24 AM
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Originally Posted by paradigm4 View Post
I'm curious as to what you're suggesting here... Can you provide more details?
As others have mentioned, an amalgamated GVRD might be an option to get the most fair and transparent way to get things done. Crilly recommended more tolls - who is going to implement that? The prov govt has a weak stomach to do anything like that, and the mayor's council will likely be divided - vancouver/burnaby = yes, delta/richmond/north shore (ie potential toll bridges) = no.

Still, as Warrenc12 says, if the liberals were pumping out the PR on how they were going to expand transit and build lines to surrey and evergreen, this would be one priority they would keep and we can hold their feet to the fire on this promise.

an interesting option that has been floating around on the blogosphere is what they have done in france - a payroll tax on large companies for transit...
     
     
  #3832  
Old Posted Sep 5, 2009, 3:36 AM
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I agree that Translinks governance is unclear. The changes made by Falcon made it more difficult to determine who is ultimately responsible.

It seems to be set up so that Translink is responsible for running the system, and the Province is responsible for announcing new infrastructure. Translink gets to figure out how to tax everyone. They talk about taxing people in every way imaginable: vehicle levies, gas taxes, sales taxes, property taxes, fares, etc. And they get all the blame for paying people too much and not running things how people think they should be run. The mayors are made to look responsible through a veto, but the Province does the actual planning through its appointed board.

The Province gets to swoop in every few years to announce a big new project. They get to take all the credit for making the system better. Translink can only pretend to be responsible when its the Province in the end that decides which projects get built and when.


A more coherent transportation governance system would put the credit and the blame under one board. I'm not a fan of amalgamation because I think local planning decisions are best handled at the lowest possible level. A metropolitan government would put the decision-makers at a too-remote position to be responsible and take credit for local improvements. It would be too far removed and too big, and in some municipalities it already is. But I would like to see regional questions handled at a regional level.

Maybe one solution is to put all regional decisions - including water, sewers, regional parks, and transportation - under an elected regional board. In a way this separation of responsibilities has been in effect for a long time, it's just lacks an elected board.

The main impediment to this that I see is the Province really likes to get the credit for new infrastructure spending.
     
     
  #3833  
Old Posted Sep 5, 2009, 4:14 AM
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Originally Posted by fever View Post
Maybe one solution is to put all regional decisions - including water, sewers, regional parks, and transportation - under an elected regional board. In a way this separation of responsibilities has been in effect for a long time, it's just lacks an elected board.
That's exactly what I'm thinking. Metro Vancouver (GVRD) should have an elected body, with one leader, local representatives (either the elected mayor, or elected representatives), and a few unelected representatives (like the current TransLink executive). This would be quite similar to LA Metro and London Assembly/Mayor of London. The one leader should report directly to the Ministry of Transportation.
     
     
  #3834  
Old Posted Sep 5, 2009, 5:45 AM
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Originally Posted by CLC View Post
Today is the 7th anniversary of M-Line opening. Does anyone know about the official ridership figure for each previous year? I'm just interested to see about how the ridership grows...
Anecdotally? Tremendously. Back in 05 06 I'd be one of 3 or 4 people on the platform, now it's packed. I used to go to the east end of the platform to catch the morning sun, now it's as far west as possible to get past the masses that accumulate at the escalator.
     
     
  #3835  
Old Posted Sep 5, 2009, 5:57 AM
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Originally Posted by BCPhil View Post
I think Broadway - Commercial is perfect and it should have been named that the day the Millennium line opened. The name shows to the rider that the stations are connected, so transfers between the lines happen there. It also names the 2 major roads that bus service is offered on: Broadway (9, 99) and Commercial (20).

Having separate names makes it seem like they are further apart than they are or that Commercial station is close to Commercial Drive, while Broadway Station isn't.

I guess there can be a bit of confusion as to which platforms go where, and numbering them might not help that much. I think Upper and Lower would have been good designations with Street Level for buses.
Comercial Broadway is more distinct from Broadway-City Hall than Broadway-Commerical would have been... and I'm sure people will continue to use the old names for another 20 years, until a generation of commuters that don't know of anything else start to use the line. (Hopefully by 2029 all of the extensions of the M Line will be complete)
     
     
  #3836  
Old Posted Sep 5, 2009, 6:05 AM
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Exclamation

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Originally Posted by The_Henry_Man View Post
If Transit is this short of money, then instead of raising taxes here and there, we should first look at the bus drivers union and demand massive pay cuts to bus drivers. They currently earn way too much for its worth (around $22/month is it?.



Ugh. sounds like a recipe for a 6 month or longer bus strike... Strikes, like Wars, rarely have winners when you consider the collatereal damage.

edit... and after reading more, in point form:

- bus drivers and any skilled translink worker ought to earn a decent wage (however that's defined these days when a 6-pack set's you back $10.00 minimum)

- why do I even have to show my pass on a bus now that they're all "Fare Paid Zones"? In a POP system I should only need to show it to a Fare Checker... Of course, out of habit I'll always flash the pass to the driver.... IMHO, the only effect of making the buses "Fare Paid Zones" is that you *always* have to get a transfer.... back in the day, if you were leaving downtown on a bus to your suburb (4, 7, 10) to Kits at night, you *never* bothered to get a transfre.

- Fare gates won't increase revenue too any significant extent. It may kepp some off, and sure there are some regular commuters that play the lottery, hence the increase of the fine from $40 to $1xx whatever it is, it doesn't affect me unless I f*ck up somehow (as I've done twice in 4 years, w/o gettting "caught")

- When driver's let on people w/o paying ? so what? sure some are unapealling... or some are like the Tawainese fellow who got on the 135 with only a $5.00 bill, the driver didn't worry about it and gave him directions to his dest.... eventuallly someone even changed his 5 and he paid....

Last edited by Dave2; Sep 5, 2009 at 6:33 AM.
     
     
  #3837  
Old Posted Sep 5, 2009, 7:37 AM
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That's exactly what I'm thinking. Metro Vancouver (GVRD) should have an elected body, with one leader, local representatives (either the elected mayor, or elected representatives), and a few unelected representatives (like the current TransLink executive). This would be quite similar to LA Metro and London Assembly/Mayor of London. The one leader should report directly to the Ministry of Transportation.
The one leader would be responsible to the electorate, not the Minister. The elected board/mayor would determine policy and tax accordingly. The Province would be responsible for Provincial highways, determining traffic laws, and a few other things, but would mostly be out of the picture.
     
     
  #3838  
Old Posted Sep 5, 2009, 5:22 PM
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2010 Games Transit Pass

In late fall 2009, TransLink will have limited edition, 2010 Games Transit Passes on sale that offer unlimited travel on buses, SeaBus and SkyTrain beginning February 5th. These passes can be used for the entire six-week Olympic period through to the Closing Ceremonies for the Paralympics on March 21st.

Our Olympic Transit Passes are a good choice for anyone wanting to shift to public transit and avoid the traffic and parking restrictions during the Games. They will be available wherever transit tickets and passes are sold for one, two or three zone travel for adults, or for young people and seniors who qualify for 'Concession' fares.

The prices will be based on regular monthly passes, adjusted to cover the full six-week period.

     
     
  #3839  
Old Posted Sep 5, 2009, 11:08 PM
deasine deasine is offline
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Cute.
     
     
  #3840  
Old Posted Sep 5, 2009, 11:14 PM
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Cute.
lol, if only the design for regular passes and tickets looked so good too.
     
     
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