Canada Line | Completed

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by deasine

I think that's too high already. 10 000 passengers-20 000 passengers would probably be the number. Let's base our numbers closer to TransLink's average data, 98 B-Line data, and 490-496 ridership.

There will be at least 20,000 new riders, i think you're underestimating it by quite a bit.


edit: lol, if there's a reason for lower than 20,000 it'll be because the new riders were fed up with crowded stations and sardine can trains and decided to return to their cars.

[mr.x]

I'm quite glad they are taking more time to choose a system and design for the fare gates.....just look at our new Canada Line ticket vending machines that have been breaking far too frequently already.

Not only should the fare gates be well thought out to ensure there aren't any bugs, there should be enough of them! Just look at the number of ticket vending machines Translink bought for each station, they most certainly underestimated ridership for each station with all those long lineups. Surely, we'll have smart cards soon that'll eliminate some needs to use the TVM's but my point still stands.

[SpongeG]

i still think people will adjust cause they can adjust their travel times to avoid the crush

[nname]

Most connecting passengers would already got a transfer from the bus
Most commuter would already have a bus pass
Most frequent transit user (but not everyday commuter) would probably use the validator with a faresaver
The only person who is going to use the machine are infrequent transit users (including the ones who are just touring the line)

[Holden West]

I traveled to Vancouver and had a chance to try it out a couple of times. I thought:

-The overall cleanliness was impressive. I've traveled on a lot of subways and it was shocking to see subway tracks cleaner than my kitchen floor. And it was nice to ride in a train where every window wasn't scratched or acid-etched to shit. Let's hope it's kept that way.

- the ticket machines are reasonably easy to use.

-The announcements were much louder than any I've ever experienced. I'm sure the old folks would appreciate it. And they were clear and intelligible.

- The leg room is larger than any I've seen. Maybe there was research that showed if there was more legroom people wouldn't put their bags on the seat beside them. I guess there's no point in adding extra rows of seats if half are taken up with luggage and crap.

- The line looked pretty barren from a visual standpoint. Chalk it up to the grey-based colour scheme and the current lack of any advertising. I agree with previous posters that more graphics are needed.

The desk clerk at the hotel didn't even mention the nearby Canada Line as an option for getting to downtown. Our transit bus driver seemed to think driving us all the way to Richmond Centre was easier for us than simply getting off at Lansdowne and walking what I presume would be merely a block or two at most to Lansdowne station.

[mezzanine]

Originally Posted by officedweller

I recall for the original MKIIs that the A/C only takes the temperature down to ambient temperature - i.e. outside temperature.

i don't make sense of that - what if it is 26 degrees outside? it will be even hotter inside a crowded train when it is running above ground. To my amazement, no one tries to open the windows (don't know if they are locked)

People will be less frazzled if they crank the a/c. In NYC in the summer, they turn the subway cars to fridges..

[DKaz]

Originally Posted by mezzanine

i don't make sense of that - what if it is 26 degrees outside? it will be even hotter inside a crowded train when it is running above ground. To my amazement, no one tries to open the windows (don't know if they are locked)

People will be less frazzled if they crank the a/c. In NYC in the summer, they turn the subway cars to fridges..

I think the official setpoint on the MKIIs is about 24C in cooling mode and 20C in heating mode. This is the most energy efficient as calculated by mechanical engineers while maintaining some comfort, but if it were up to me (and I'm a mechanical engineering technologist) I would bump the cooling setpoint down to 20C to 21C for pure comfort sakes. 23C to 24C is great for the office as people don't generate much heat just sitting around in the office working, but after a very brisk walk to the station and the fact I sweat very easily, getting into a cool 20C train would be very much appreciated...

(The A/C kicks on between 18C and 23C outside ambient temperature depending on solar and passenger heat load to maintain 24C or less inside the trains). I have a portable temperature sensor I can take on the trains to test this out.

NYC is horrible in terms of overkill, the stations were like 35C+ and humid, but the trains must've been about 14C inside. If they were balanced to just 20C or something they would still be comfortably cool and the stations would probably hover around 28C instead of 35C. Still warm but not unbearable.

It feels like the Canada Line stations are air conditioned. Notably cooler than Granville and Burrard Stations for sure.

[CBeats]

Originally Posted by mezzanine

People will be less frazzled if they crank the a/c. In NYC in the summer, they turn the subway cars to fridges..

My god, if you know that, then you know the result of turning those cars into fridges: station platforms that are 45+ degrees! I would prefer warmer cars if it means cooler platforms, relatively speaking. "Ambient temperatures" sound better than the contrast of temperatures in NYC!

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by DKaz

It feels like the Canada Line stations are air conditioned. Notably cooler than Granville and Burrard Stations for sure.

It actually has to do with a much better tunnel ventilation system, the tunnel fans are right next to each station.


The SkyTrain tunnel in downtown isn't even a transit tunnel, as we all know it was for the old railway that went to waterfront....so it explains the ventilation.

[officedweller]

Thanks for theinfo.
I always hate it when there's a huge temperature differential between outside and buildings (same would apply to trains).

[zivan56]

Originally Posted by Holden West

- The leg room is larger than any I've seen. Maybe there was research that showed if there was more legroom people wouldn't put their bags on the seat beside them. I guess there's no point in adding extra rows of seats if half are taken up with luggage and crap.

Finally!
I'm only 1.87m tall and I can't sit "normally" in any MK I/II train unless I have my legs spread out taking up 1.5 seats. Then I have to fight with someone who wants to sit next to me and can't fit either.
Likewise, regarding A/C, the main reason I sit in the first place is because I sweat like crazy when standing due to the useless A/C in the summer and insane heating during the winter. That is one of the main reasons why I stopped taking Skytrain and drive to work in the car; since I would smell like I ran a marathon and arrive with a wrinkled suit if I were to take it.

[deasine]

Originally Posted by mr.x

There will be at least 20,000 new riders, i think you're underestimating it by quite a bit.

I don't think it's instantly 20 000 new riders: give it to 2010 for sure that would be beyond the number. Like I said, aside from Bridgeport, the rest of the line should do functioning fine. I'm more worried about the Richmond Stns where trains don't come as frequent as the combined service portion. I think there should be 2 trains heading to Richmond-Brighouse and 1 train heading to YVR-Airport, especially during the late night service. I can understand a 20 minute wait at the airport because there aren't many people using night service anyway, but Richmond is a complete different story.

Unfortunately, we don't know the exact details of the InTransitBC and TransLink contract, but if the suburban bus routes were redirected to funnel more ridership for the Canada Line and we already have enough ridership, then we can always introduce a better TrainBus service for passengers, perhaps having it from downtown with one stop in White Rock Centre.

Responding to Officedweller's last comment, I hate the temperature difference as well: in fact, immediate temperature differences often make people sick: mmm flu season coming soon.

[TransitJack]

Originally Posted by mr.x

It actually has to do with a much better tunnel ventilation system, the tunnel fans are right next to each station.


The SkyTrain tunnel in downtown isn't even a transit tunnel, as we all know it was for the old railway that went to waterfront....so it explains the ventilation.

Those fans are not operating during normal conditions. the air movement is caused by the trains moving, not by the fans. Fans only come on to evacuate smoke or in rare cases when air movement by the trains is not sufficient.

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by TransitJack

Those fans are not operating during normal conditions. the air movement is caused by the trains moving, not by the fans. Fans only come on to evacuate smoke or in rare cases when air movement by the trains is not sufficient.

I assumed they were, Broadway Station sounds like a lawn mower.

[TransitJack]

Originally Posted by mr.x

It was a missed opportunity to not have implemented the giant "T" symbols in time for the Canada Line opening. It would have been great for advertising the new universal transit symbol in this region.

As for the terminal, right on the terminal concourse outside of the escalator in that picture, they should have a large sign across the width of that concourse with a large sign that points to the Canada Line entrance.

A giant "T"? seriously? Wouldn't a "SKYTRAIN" sign make more sense. London has the Underground Logo, Metro in Paris, and you think a T is good for Vancouver? I'm not sure about that one.

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by TransitJack

A giant "T"? seriously? Wouldn't a "SKYTRAIN" sign make more sense. London has the Underground Logo, Metro in Paris, and you think a T is good for Vancouver? I'm not sure about that one.

The giant "T" is part of Translink's new branding:

From paradigm's flickr pics:



Proposed Wayfinding Pylon. Features a new "T" symbol which, apparently, TransLink is going to use as a beacon for all it's major transit services. Similar to the other "T" or "M" symbols found on other major metro systems around the world.





New Broadway SkyTrain Station improvements (first pic is the view looking at 2nd Avenue entrance; second pic is the improved "main entrance/hub" area: notice the improvements and the (T) symbol)





Re-creation of the symbol, by overground:

[TransitJack]

Originally Posted by Waders

Only 1 platform(West side) was used on Saturday and Sunday around 1pm and 3pm when I took the train.
Train actually had to stop in the tunnel to wait for train to depart before it can enter the platform.


From my observation, there were a lot of people still trying out the system on Saturday and Sunday. At Waterfront station 3 police and a few attendents maintained the order, stopped pessengers just before the north platform entrance and separated about 40 waiting pessengers into 2 lineup, the 1st lineup for YVR and the 2nd lineup for Richmond.
There was system wide delay. My train had to stop in the tunnel before 4 stations and waited for the previous train to depart.

Bridgeport station was crowded. It would be the station to watch on Sept. 7.

There was also somesort of "citychase' event / scavenger hunt type thing on Saturday that say some extra 20000 riders I'm told. This really pushed the limit with all the lookey-loos still out on the system. Any door issues or related holds would definitely cause delays. Still a few kinks to iron out.

I would think in the next week or two some of the volumes should subside before the Sept 7 influx.

[TransitJack]

Originally Posted by mr.x

The giant "T" is part of Translink's new branding:

I stand corrected. I didn't realize they had actually decided on the T.

[DKaz]

Originally Posted by TransitJack

Those fans are not operating during normal conditions. the air movement is caused by the trains moving, not by the fans. Fans only come on to evacuate smoke or in rare cases when air movement by the trains is not sufficient.

I'm sure some of the fans are for general air movement while the others are for smoke evacuation. A colleague of mine was involved in the ventilation design for the Canada Line, although I have not asked him the specifics. Maybe I should ask.

Originally Posted by deasine

we can always introduce a better TrainBus service for passengers, perhaps having it from downtown with one stop in White Rock Centre.

WIN. I love the TrainBus service, even moreso than the regular Train service at times other than the fact that the Trainbuses don't have laptop hookups or an onboard coffee shop even if it was one of those automatic vending machines. They're very comfy and they're reasonably fast. The Orion Suburbans are nice but full out highway coaches is just plain commuting in luxury.

I'm pretty sure that someone could create a new company, charter a few buses with Cantrail etc., and create new express service.

[TransitJack]

Originally Posted by mr.x

You forgot to add in new ridership. 58,000 is almost entirely from buses.

For new ridership: on the low scale, it'll be 20,000; on the high scale, I'd say 40,000. I'm going to say there will be at least 30,000 new riders, in accordance to original ridership projections, but I have a feeling there will be more than that given the high interest to ride the line.

Add that all and ridership should fluctuate between 80,000-90,000...and I would think the transit tourists will be gone by then: meaning with bus integration, the kids/workers, and new ridership we'd be back to the same numbers we had this past week with the transit tourists.





I'm going to say that Bridgeport can only handle about 15,000 and even that would be stretching it....nevermind anything greater. There isn't much space on the platform as you've also mentioned with escalators and staircases in the middle of the platform. I remember predicting this congestion would happen years ago.



The station should have had a similar design as Lougheed.

Like I said before, big mistake to not have built Bridgeport with 50-metres from the start....same goes for Broadway, with the 99 and trolleys bound to flood in passengers into the station.

Bridgeport is definitely too small. I also don't know why the entrance to the building is not orientated towards the street. If you get dropped off by car, you have to walk around the building. Also, is there going to be a drop off space by car? It seems like the area is going to be one bus-crazy zone.

I also hope they finally time the signals between Bridgeport and Sea Island Way. Great Canadian way is always backed up between these roads, preventing cars from going across Bridgeport on a green light because the cars are still waiting at the next light. Now, add in a whole bunch of buses trying to head to 99 south, yikes!