Canada Line | Completed

[deasine]

Originally Posted by mr.x

I don't recall many systems having so many problems and crowding issues this early....days even....of course, there are some special cases like the new line in Taipei, but that's a different scenario.

September 7th won't be a joy ride at all.

I don't recall overcrowding on a new bridge either: remember Golden Ears? Many citizens are interested in trying out new things in Vancouver, the Canada Line being one of them. There are a lot of people still trying out the Canada Line, even in my picture, I can say at least 30% of the people are trying out the new line (especially since a lot of the people unloaded at Templeton thinking they were on a Richmond-Brighouse Train). Not to mention, these were weekend frequencies plus train delays.

The suburban buses are much more on schedule now that the bus-lanes would be up and running. Of course, when you synchronize the trains with the buses, you don't want them to be arriving at the same time. I would say, let a train depart 30 seconds before when a bus is scheduled to arrive, then there will be three-four minutes to the next train arriving, which will give you plenty of time transferring from the bus loop to the platform.

[CLC]

Translink website does not have different weekend frequencies for Canada Line. I guess the level of service is supposed to be the same Monday through Sunday?

[nname]

Originally Posted by mr.x

The planets and stars are aligning for September 7th. There's absolutely no way the system can handle the additional bus passengers, especially with current train frequencies.

Well.. I'm pretty sure half of the trains (the ones come from YVR) will be pretty much empty... Its hard to imagine anyone would want to leave Sea Island at 7am in the morning...

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by deasine

I don't recall overcrowding on a new bridge either: remember Golden Ears? Many citizens are interested in trying out new things in Vancouver, the Canada Line being one of them. There are a lot of people still trying out the Canada Line, even in my picture, I can say at least 30% of the people are trying out the new line (especially since a lot of the people unloaded at Templeton thinking they were on a Richmond-Brighouse Train). Not to mention, these were weekend frequencies plus train delays.

Golden Ears was quite different. I don't think you could compare a car bridge with a transit line.

As for the Canada Line, best case scenario....lets say that 30% of the current ridership is from transit tourists, and lets say that they'll be gone by September 6th. By September 7th, previous day volumes would be back or could even exceed with bus integration funneling in passengers.

The south of Fraser and Richmond buses funneling in ridership plus most of what's left of the current 98 B-Line ridership being transplanted onto the Canada Line. AND THEN, you have all the back to school kids and college students AND summer vacation will be ending for the majority of the working population.

It's not going to work.

The suburban buses are much more on schedule now that the bus-lanes would be up and running. Of course, when you synchronize the trains with the buses, you don't want them to be arriving at the same time. I would say, let a train depart 30 seconds before when a bus is scheduled to arrive, then there will be three-four minutes to the next train arriving, which will give you plenty of time transferring from the bus loop to the platform.

I think we can count on suburban buses being within +/- 5-minutes on schedule for maybe most of the time, but I wouldn't count on making a schedule that requires bus drivers to be on time within the minute.

Synchronizing trains won't be a problem, but synchronizing buses will...even with the new bus lane.

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by Yume-sama

I could do without any more stations... other than the cost, it would be more convenient to take a taxi from downtown to YVR if it was any slower.

And, I guess, if you had 3 or 4 people taking a taxi would probably cost the same when the extra fee comes in.

i'd love to see the trip from downtown to the airport be shorter by car - how is that even possible? even in light traffic it takes a good 30 mins to get there from the west end

[SpongeG]

don't people know you can buy aticket at any station on the old system? if its that bad get iot granville and than walk over to the canada line

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by Waders

Ridership pattern has changed because of the addition of this new line.
Take me as an example. I seldem went to Richmond because it would take more than 1 hour by bus. Since the line opened on Tuesday, I have already travelled to Richmond 3 times as a true pessenger. This new line has allow me to go to malls to shop and places to eat in Richmond so much easier and quicker.
Increased transportation network connectivity can generate additional ridership demand.


I saw quite a few pessengers with luggages stood near the train door, slowed down pessengers getting in/out the train. The luggage also become an obstacle on the narrow platform.

my friend said the somethign like that too - he said yay i don't ever have to go to metrotown again i can go from downtown to oakridge or richmond centre if i want to go to a mall other pacific centre - theres a rider right there

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by lightrail

They need more signs like this one and signs in the arrivals area pointing towards the Canada Line. It's a bit blurry - but it says "Canada Line. Public Rail transit to downtown Vancouver.

i don't think i saw any in the arrivals area - its only on the upper level of the airport

[lightrail]

Originally Posted by GeeCee

Why do the platform entrances at YVR have those metal poles, anyway? Seems kinda silly to me. Sure, there's the handicap entrance, but what if you're carrying luggage with you?

To stop people walking onto the train with the free luggage trolleys.

[lightrail]

Originally Posted by CLC

Translink website does not have different weekend frequencies for Canada Line. I guess the level of service is supposed to be the same Monday through Sunday?

I tihnk we'll see a peak hour frequency once Translink figures out the travel patterns. The frequncies right now are pretty basic. They'll just add trains as needed until they can decide on when to schedule and how.

[Stingray2004]

Originally Posted by nname

Well.. I'm pretty sure half of the trains (the ones come from YVR) will be pretty much empty... Its hard to imagine anyone would want to leave Sea Island at 7am in the morning...

That's a good point regarding feeding capacity into the Canada Line from the Tsawwassen/White Rock coach buses. But man, I'm still taken aback by the sardine-like conditions on what I perceive should be lighter weekend loads. Perhaps that speaks volumes of the future success of the Canada Line!

Originally Posted by SpongeG

i'd love to see the trip from downtown to the airport be shorter by car - how is that even possible? even in light traffic it takes a good 30 mins to get there from the west end

Hmmmmm... in my early morning commute, when I travelled from Tsawwassen by vehicle to Bentall 4 at Burrard/Dunsmuir, it took me a measly 35 minutes ... and I was parked in the Bentall parkade and in my office by 7 am within that same 35 minutes! REALLY!

And that's a helluva longer distance than from the downtown penninsula just to YVR.

[deasine]

Originally Posted by mr.x

Golden Ears was quite different. I don't think you could compare a car bridge with a transit line.

But was there any place in the world where you see that same amount of people walking over a bridge? I don't think so.

Originally Posted by mr.x

As for the Canada Line, best case scenario....lets say that 30% of the current ridership is from transit tourists, and lets say that they'll be gone by September 6th. By September 7th, previous day volumes would be back or could even exceed with bus integration funneling in passengers.

The south of Fraser and Richmond buses funneling in ridership plus most of what's left of the current 98 B-Line ridership being transplanted onto the Canada Line. AND THEN, you have all the back to school kids and college students AND summer vacation will be ending for the majority of the working population.

It's not going to work.

Well to be honest, we don't know the ridership on the suburban buses. Does anyone know actually?

We can't say, it's not going to work, when it's been less than a week. That's simply jumping to conclusions.

Originally Posted by mr.x

I think we can count on suburban buses being within +/- 5-minutes on schedule for maybe most of the time, but I wouldn't count on making a schedule that requires bus drivers to be on time within the minute.

Synchronizing trains won't be a problem, but synchronizing buses will...even with the new bus lane.

Not sure about you, but generally, buses are in sync, especially the ones in the city. Then again, I really can't say the same for the suburban bus routes.

[nname]

Originally Posted by deasine

Well to be honest, we don't know the ridership on the suburban buses. Does anyone know actually?

20,000/day back in 2007.

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by deasine

But was there any place in the world where you see that same amount of people walking over a bridge? I don't think so.

But the entire bridge wasn't built to be used as a pedestrian bridge, its purpose was for car use. It was simply a special event, and i don't think we could compare it with transit.

lol, i don't even remember what we were debating over with regards to the Golden Ears and i'm too lazy to scroll down so i'll leave it at that.

Well to be honest, we don't know the ridership on the suburban buses. Does anyone know actually?

We can't say, it's not going to work, when it's been less than a week. That's simply jumping to conclusions.

I believe it is about 20,000 for south of Fraser buses....add in most of what's left of the 30,000+ from the 98 B-Line that hasn't already made the transition onto the Canada Line...and then add in the return of all the kids and workers.

If the numbers were smaller, I'd say it would work and I'd be more conservative in my views and opinions with a "wait and see" attitude...but small margins and numbers aren't the case at all. I mean, the margins are huge. There are so many signs of a gong show in waiting.

edit: It's like expecting a meteor that's a kilometre wide to burn up in our atmosphere, causing little or no damage. (you gotta love the Simpsons :p)

Not sure about you, but generally, buses are in sync, especially the ones in the city. Then again, I really can't say the same for the suburban bus routes.

Most of the buses in the city are in sync within +/- 5-minutes....which is good, btw. They are NEVER right on the dot, within the minute. I've heard before that the suburban buses have often been horrendously late before, but now that they are being short-turned (without having to face congestion across the Fraser, in the streets of Vancouver, and in downtown) I would think they will be similar to the +/- 5-minute accuracy we see in the city.

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by nname

20,000/day back in 2007.

Yea, that's what I heard as well...i wonder what they are today.

[CLC]

Originally Posted by deasine

But was there any place in the world where you see that same amount of people walking over a bridge? I don't think so.

If you refer to special "walk" event over bridge. Then Hong kong probably holds the record of most people does so. I believe the Hong kong record was 1.5 million people walked on Island Eastern Corridor at the 1989 demonstration.
There will be a fundraising event coming up if you will happen to travel to Hong kong:
2009/2010 New Territories Walk – Stonecutters Bridge
http://www.commchest.org/en/how/how_01_01_01_01.aspx?DocumentId=78

[deasine]

Originally Posted by mr.x

But the entire bridge wasn't built to be used as a pedestrian bridge, its purpose was for car use. It was simply a special event, and i don't think we could compare it with transit.

lol, i don't even remember what we were debating over with regards to the Golden Ears and i'm too lazy to scroll down.

Well the Canada Line's opening day was special event and of course, some people decide to enjoy the celebration of a new rapid transit link not on opening day, which is why you still see so many people.

I really don't think overcrowding is as big as an issue except when there is a short delay or problem.

Originally Posted by mr.x

I believe it is about 20,000 for south of Fraser buses....add in most of what's left of the 30,000+ from the 98 B-Line that hasn't already made the transition onto the Canada Line...and then add in the return of all the kids and workers.

If the numbers were smaller, I'd say it would work...but that's not the case. I mean, the margins are huge. There are so many signs of a gong show in waiting.

Well 27 500 was the ridership for the 98 B-Line and TransLink has a ridership increase of an average 3.9% per year. So that's a little less than 30 000 passengers on the 98 B-Line for 2009. I'll assume that the 98 B-Line grew more than the average, so let's just say that's 31 000 passengers.

The suburban buses, I'll round up to 22 000 passengers as they are more steady in terms of growth. Add that up together, that's 53 000 passengers. Totally not accurate, but let's assume there are 5000 passengers now going to use the Canada Line to the airport. That's 58 000 passengers daily, which the line can handle.

I'm going to say that yes, Bridgeport is going to be a problem station, because to me, it can't even handle 22 000 passengers daily, especially during the peak periods, which is only the suburban bus routes: let's not forget a few local ones funneled into Bridgeport. Bridgeport, however, would've been able to handle the amount of passengers if it wasn't built the way it was built. Right now, the escalators and stairs are located dead centre in the platform. If they were located at the southern platform end, where the elevator is now, then you'll have a much larger platform for people to circulate. But I guess then the problem is that people bunch up at one end of the platform and not the other.

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by deasine

The suburban buses, I'll round up to 22 000 passengers as they are more steady in terms of growth. Add that up together, that's 53 000 passengers. Totally not accurate, but let's assume there are 5000 passengers now going to use the Canada Line to the airport. That's 58 000 passengers daily, which the line can handle.

You forgot to add in new ridership. 58,000 is almost entirely from buses.

For new ridership: on the low scale, it'll be 20,000; on the high scale, I'd say 40,000. I'm going to say there will be at least 30,000 new riders, in accordance to original ridership projections, but I have a feeling there will be more than that given the high interest to ride the line.

Add that all and ridership should fluctuate between 80,000-90,000...and I would think the transit tourists will be gone by then: meaning with bus integration, the kids/workers, and new ridership we'd be back to the same numbers we had this past week with the transit tourists.

I'm going to say that yes, Bridgeport is going to be a problem station, because to me, it can't even handle 22 000 passengers daily, especially during the peak periods, which is only the suburban bus routes: let's not forget a few local ones funneled into Bridgeport. Bridgeport, however, would've been able to handle the amount of passengers if it wasn't built the way it was built. Right now, the escalators and stairs are located dead centre in the platform. If they were located at the southern platform end, where the elevator is now, then you'll have a much larger platform for people to circulate. But I guess then the problem is that people bunch up at one end of the platform and not the other.

I'm going to say that Bridgeport can only handle about 15,000 and even that would be stretching it....nevermind anything greater. There isn't much space on the platform as you've also mentioned with escalators and staircases in the middle of the platform. I remember predicting this congestion would happen years ago.



The station should have had a similar design as Lougheed.

Like I said before, big mistake to not have built Bridgeport with 50-metres from the start....same goes for Broadway, with the 99 and trolleys bound to flood in passengers into the station.

[Yume-sama]

Originally Posted by raskal

Those same 'ginormous' backpacks you speak of were also boarded onto a bus which would take them to meet the crowded B-Line buses and still people managed to fit on with them.

Perhaps, but they wouldn't have been traveling with a suitcase or 2 beside them, or perhaps they didn't take public transportation at all.

Also, they could conceivably sit with their backpack on a bus, either on their lap or at their feet, whereas the Canada Line has all seating gone after Waterfront Station (which unfortunately is the first one...)

Oddly, people who go to the airport tend to bring luggage.

[deasine]

Originally Posted by mr.x

For new ridership: on the low scale, it'll be 20,000; on the high scale, I'd say 40,000. I'm going to say there will be at least 30,000 new riders, in accordance to original ridership projections, but I have a feeling there will be more than that given the high interest to ride the line.

I think that's too high already. 10 000 passengers-20 000 passengers would probably be the number. Let's base our numbers closer to TransLink's average data, 98 B-Line data, and 490-496 ridership.

Either way, I don't mind seeing new trains running on the Canada Line: maybe they can be more consistent with TransLink's livery.