Salt Lake:Official development news thread - Part 2

[TonyAnderson]

Originally Posted by Justnslcsugarhood.

I think if we had more people who have obtained at least bachelors degree in something they would stay. In SLC I remember reading 28% of our population has a bachelors or beyond while in San Fransisco and Seattle I believe it was upwards of 40%. I think that may be a big factor in why they headed west and north west.

Let me check on those figures for Seattle and San Fran.

True, but it can also go both ways. Perhaps there aren't as many bachelor holders because there isn't as big a need for them.

[cololi]

Panhandling laws are simply on the book to give the police a reason to do something if a person is being verbally abusive. There are a small number of aggressive panhandlers downtown, particularly around the city and county building. I have had first hand experience with some, but it is not common. Most of the aggressive ones (not a lot, but maybe 3-4) I recognize and just avoid them. the overwhelming majority of them are nice people and really appreciate an acknowledgement if nothing more. I sometimes will offer to buy them a sandwich or just bring one back to them. I have never had anyone not accept it. The idea of encouraging people not to give them money works the best.

Different Topic: a lot of times when a start up gets outside investment dollars, they relocate to be closer to the money source. I think the biggest issue with Utah as a whole is that there really is not a lot of investment money going around to small start ups within the state. It seems like we always rely on the likes of the same group of private investors: Huntsmans, Sorensons, Eccles, etc. It is very easy for a City like Seattle to profit off of the thousands of multi-millionaires that Microsoft created.

[Stenar]

Originally Posted by urbanboy

Perhaps if we were more welcoming to a diverse crowd, these entrepreneurs would stay.

Cities and the Creative Class
Richard Florida
Carnegie Mellon University
http://www.atlas-euro.org/pages/pdf/WUba...ities%20and%20the%20Creative%20Class.pdf

"TECHNOLOGY, TALENT, AND TOLERANCE
The key to understanding the new economic geography of creativity and its effects on economic outcomes lies in what I call the 3Ts of economic development: technology, talent, and tolerance. Creativity and members of the creative class take root in places that possess all three of these critical factors. Each is a necessary but by itself insufficient condition. To attract creative people, generate innovation, and stimulate economic development, a place must have all three. I define tolerance as openness, inclusiveness, and diversity to all ethnicities, races, and walks of life. Talent is defined as those with a bachelor's degree and above. And technology is a function of both innovation and high-technology concentrations in a region....

The 3Ts explain why cities such as Baltimore, St. Louis, and Pittsburgh fail to grow despite their deep reservoirs of technology and world-class universities: they are unwilling to be sufficiently tolerant and open to attract and retain top creative talent....

My colleagues and I have conducted a great deal of statistical research to test the creative capital theory.... We found that talent or creative capital is attracted to places that score high on our basic indicators of diversity — the Gay, Bohemian, and other indexes. It is not because high-tech industries are populated by great numbers of bohemians and gay people; rather, artists, musicians, gay people, and members of the creative class in general prefer places that are open and diverse....

The results of our statistical analysis on the gay population are squarely in line with the creative capital theory. The Gay Index is a very strong predictor of a region's high-tech industry concentration. Six of the top 10 1990 and five of the top 10 2000 Gay Index regions also rank among the nation's top 10 high-tech regions. In virtually all of our statistical analyses, the Gay Index did better than any other individual measure of diversity as a predictor of high-tech industry, they also predict its growth."

[delts145]

Originally Posted by urbanboy

Perhaps if we were more welcoming to a diverse crowd, these entrepreneurs would stay.

Originally Posted by Justnslcsugarhood.

http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/departments/elearning/?article=educatedcities


Most-Educated Cities in the United States According to a Census Bureau study, Seattle tops the list of America's most educated cities, with more than half its population 25 years and older holding at least a bachelor's degree. Data collected by the Census Bureau's American Community Survey shows that 52.7 percent of 25-and-over Seattleites have a bachelor's degree or higher, closely followed by San Francisco (50.1 percent), Raleigh, North Carolina (50.1 percent), Washington, D.C. (45.3 percent), and Austin, Texas (44.1 percent). These same cities ranked--in the same order--as the top five most educated cities in last year's Census Bureau data as well. The national college graduation rate is 27.2 percent, up from last year's figure of 25.9 percent. Education levels bode well for a city's economic success. The top five most educated cities also made the list of the top 25 most prosperous cities. With a median household income of $70,921, residents of San Jose, California, earn more, on average, than those in any other city in the country. San Jose residents are also well-educated. With 36.1 percent of its population holding a bachelor's degree or higher, San Jose ranks in the top 15 on America's list of most-educated cities.

Hmmm.... Did Utah suddenly become less than one of the fastest growing, lowest unemployed, most dynamic, strongest economies in the nation. It's interesting that among their many negatives, many of the areas cited in that report also have among the highest unemployment rates in the nation.

Bureau of labor statistics, Unemployment, June 2009:

- Utah - 5.7%
Metro SLC - 5.9%
Metro Provo - 5.6%
Metro Ogden - 6.0%

- Texas - 7.5%
Metro Austin - 7.1%

- Washington State - 9.2%
Metro Seattle - 9.3%

- North Carolina - 11.0% plus
Metro Raleigh - 9.0% plus

- California.......11.6% plus
Metro San Jose - 11.8% plus
Metro San Francisco - 10.3% plus

- Oregon - 12.2%
Metro Portland - 11.7%

.

[i-215]

We're behind the curve. I hate be doom and gloom, but I think our time is coming, sadly.

[Stenar]

Originally Posted by delts145

Hmmm.... Did Utah suddenly become less than one of the fastest growing, lowest unemployed, most dynamic, strongest economies in the nation. It's interesting that among their many negatives, many of the areas cited in that report also have among the highest unemployment rates in the nation.

Bureau of labor statistics, Unemployment, June 2009:

- Utah - 5.7%
Metro SLC - 5.9%
Metro Provo - 5.6%
Metro Ogden - 6.0%

- Texas - 7.5%
Metro Austin - 7.1%

- Washington State - 9.2%
Metro Seattle - 9.3%

- North Carolina - 11.0% plus
Metro Raleigh - 9.0% plus

- California.......11.6% plus
Metro San Jose - 11.8% plus
Metro San Francisco - 10.3% plus

- Oregon - 12.2%
Metro Portland - 11.7%

.

Utah also has extremely low wages.

[delts145]

I've had a considerable amount of first hand experience with both coasts, particularly the West Coast. There are trade-offs no matter what location we are discussing. My own past history and ongoing experience with the West Coast tells me that I have to, and will continue to have to earn A LOT more to maintain the same standard of living on the West Coast as I maintain along the Wasatch Front.

[delts145]

Be sure to check out Skyguy's new thread

edit...OOps, here's the correct link... and thanks Wren for the heads-up

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=172343

Originally Posted by skyguy414

Here I will organize and show pictures I have personally taken over the years. Check back, as I will keep adding and editing this thread to add new pictures, etc.

These are all pictures from within a 25-30 mile radius of downtown Salt Lake City.


Thanks, enjoy, and offer any suggestions

.

[Orlando]

Originally Posted by i-215

We're behind the curve. I hate be doom and gloom, but I think our time is coming, sadly.

I don't think so. There was an article that someone posted about how Utah was predicted as the best state to recover from the recession. Also, Utah's recessions are usually more mild than the rest of the country.

[wrendog]

Originally Posted by delts145

Be sure to check out Skyguy's new thread

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=4395953

[/B]

.

Here is a better link.

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=172343

[Justnslcsugarhood.]

Originally Posted by delts145

Hmmm.... Did Utah suddenly become less than one of the fastest growing, lowest unemployed, most dynamic, strongest economies in the nation. It's interesting that among their many negatives, many of the areas cited in that report also have among the highest unemployment rates in the nation.

Bureau of labor statistics, Unemployment, June 2009:

- Utah - 5.7%
Metro SLC - 5.9%
Metro Provo - 5.6%
Metro Ogden - 6.0%

- Texas - 7.5%
Metro Austin - 7.1%

- Washington State - 9.2%
Metro Seattle - 9.3%

- North Carolina - 11.0% plus
Metro Raleigh - 9.0% plus

- California.......11.6% plus
Metro San Jose - 11.8% plus
Metro San Francisco - 10.3% plus

- Oregon - 12.2%
Metro Portland - 11.7%

.

I wasn't being antagonistic I was stating a reason why small tech companies probably leave Utah.

[Justnslcsugarhood.]

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705321222/Economic-indicator-at-yearlong-high.html

good news.

[Stenar]

Originally Posted by delts145

I've had a considerable amount of first hand experience with both coasts, particularly the West Coast. There are trade-offs no matter what location we are discussing. My own past history and ongoing experience with the West Coast tells me that I have to, and will continue to have to earn A LOT more to maintain the same standard of living on the West Coast as I maintain along the Wasatch Front.

I lived in NYC for several years and although housing was definitely more expensive in NYC, almost everything else was cheaper than in Utah, approximately 10% cheaper.

On top of that, I was being paid anywhere from 2-4x as much in NYC while doing the same kind of work. So, I definitely made way more than enough to pay for the extra cost of housing and everything else seemed especially dirt cheap to me with all the extra disposable income I had in NYC.

I also lived in Portland, OR for a while and housing is slightly more expensive there, but with no sales tax and lower fees, taxes and regulations in general on other items, it's cheaper to live in Portland as well.

[WeST]

Originally Posted by Stenar

Utah also has extremely low wages.

There is a lot of evidence to suggest that this is false. I think this is an example of a federal agency aggregating studies and not looking at unique demographics when analyzing information. Misconceptions like this often lead to false conclusions about Utah.

http://www.allbusiness.com/labor-employment/compensation-benefits-wages-salaries/11464479-1.html

http://www.utahfoundation.org/reports/?p=85

Originally Posted by Stenar

I lived in NYC for several years and although housing was definitely more expensive in NYC, almost everything else was cheaper than in Utah, approximately 10% cheaper.

On top of that, I was being paid anywhere from 2-4x as much in NYC while doing the same kind of work. So, I definitely made way more than enough to pay for the extra cost of housing and everything else seemed especially dirt cheap to me with all the extra disposable income I had in NYC.

I also lived in Portland, OR for a while and housing is slightly more expensive there, but with no sales tax and lower fees, taxes and regulations in general on other items, it's cheaper to live in Portland as well.

This is also hard to believe.



According to data compiled by The American Chamber of Commerce Researchers Association. You’ll need a lot of cold hard cash to live in Alaska, which has three cities on the list. The ten most expensive United States cities to live in are as follows:

1.) New York City

2.) Boston, MA

3.) Juneau, Alaska

4.) Anchorage, AK

5.) San Diego

6.) Philadelphia

7.) Los Angeles

8.) Fairbanks, AK

9.) Ann Arbor

10.) Seattle

[WeST]

Originally Posted by cololi

Panhandling laws are simply on the book to give the police a reason to do something if a person is being verbally abusive. There are a small number of aggressive panhandlers downtown, particularly around the city and county building. I have had first hand experience with some, but it is not common. Most of the aggressive ones (not a lot, but maybe 3-4) I recognize and just avoid them. the overwhelming majority of them are nice people and really appreciate an acknowledgement if nothing more. I sometimes will offer to buy them a sandwich or just bring one back to them. I have never had anyone not accept it. The idea of encouraging people not to give them money works the best.

Different Topic: a lot of times when a start up gets outside investment dollars, they relocate to be closer to the money source. I think the biggest issue with Utah as a whole is that there really is not a lot of investment money going around to small start ups within the state. It seems like we always rely on the likes of the same group of private investors: Huntsmans, Sorensons, Eccles, etc. It is very easy for a City like Seattle to profit off of the thousands of multi-millionaires that Microsoft created.

I think you hit the nail on the head. There are larger pools of mid level wealthy investors in other states. This is more reason to keep in mind how our policies affect our long term economic development. High taxes (personal and business) on the wealthy can disincentivize this kind of critical mass of investors.

[Justnslcsugarhood.]

Originally Posted by WeST

There is a lot of evidence to suggest that this is false. I think this is an example of a federal agency aggregating studies and not looking at unique demographics when analyzing information. Misconceptions like this often lead to false conclusions about Utah.

http://www.allbusiness.com/labor-employment/compensation-benefits-wages-salaries/11464479-1.html

http://www.utahfoundation.org/reports/?p=85



This is also hard to believe.



According to data compiled by The American Chamber of Commerce Researchers Association. You’ll need a lot of cold hard cash to live in Alaska, which has three cities on the list. The ten most expensive United States cities to live in are as follows:

1.) New York City

2.) Boston, MA

3.) Juneau, Alaska

4.) Anchorage, AK

5.) San Diego

6.) Philadelphia

7.) Los Angeles

8.) Fairbanks, AK

9.) Ann Arbor

10.) Seattle

Our median age is 27 isn't it? So that would make sense that we are a "low wage" state.

Also, is this in reference to just housing or does it include other living expenses such groceries, gas, water ect.

[East2Westback]

Stennar, this is not a slam and do not take it that way. I grew up and love SLC yet it did nothing to fulfill what I wanted.

I have been in NYC for about 20 plus years. I now live in Tappan, New York about 12 miles north on the Hudson river. My studio for writing is on West 86th.

No matter how you cut it or want to look at it...NYC outside of Tokyo (which I have spent a good deal of time is, is absolutely and totally way expensive. Icould live anywhere in the US for half or less the price.

I am not sure where Stennar gets his figures but let me know... I live the reality. I have been lucky but I have also worked with some supremely talanted and scarey musicians (who would be absolutely the greatest players in any part of the USA) who barely get by.

NYC is a rich person's place. That is why I moved to Tappan. 12 miles north 1/2 the price. My writing studio is in NYC but it is shared by 6 musicians...that is why it is affordable.

You do not care about money...go to Tokyo...awesome enviroment for creating. You care about money but want to be creative go to SF...Not so visible but loaced with creative people. Want to be in a creative environment loaded with narcissistic an anal people go to LA. If you want truly creative people who are willing to suffer in live in virtual tenements go to NYC.

Stenar, I do not know your experiences here but you better be F'ing good to survive...or lucky and I have been way lucky! I have talent but in reality, I see hyper creativive and talented people daily.

Manhattan is a business oriented rich man's island and anyone who tries to create a norm reality has not lived the real deal.

[WeST]

Originally Posted by Justnslcsugarhood.

Our median age is 27 isn't it? So that would make sense that we are a "low wage" state.

Also, is this in reference to just housing or does it include other living expenses such groceries, gas, water ect.

When cost of living is studied they usually lean heavily on the consumer price index produced by the Bureau of Labor Statistics. This does take into consideration groceries, gas, water, housing, etc. In fact Utah has one of the lowest energy prices in the country because of our abundant natural gas and coal reserves.

[delts145]

^^^
^^^
A big Ditto to that Rick!!!

Oh, and Justnslcsugarhood, I wasn't thinking you were being antagonistic at all. Not just you, but it seemed like the balance was tipping a little too far in one direction.

[WeST]

Originally Posted by urbanboy

Perhaps if we were more welcoming to a diverse crowd, these entrepreneurs would stay.

While I have heard people say that Utah sometimes struggles to land major corporations because of its policy on gay marriage and other social issues, I doubt this is a large consideration. Taxes, general business climate, workforce, energy prices, transportation and incentives are far bigger a consideration. Further when you say "diverse crowd" are you referring to anyone other than the GLBT community? Other than the corporations in the bay area and NYC I don't think most others are overly worried about what communities have so called "gay rights" laws. By the size of the gay community here things must not be too terrible for them.