Canada Line | Completed

[dreambrother808]

Originally Posted by argon007

it seems the progress of finishing work is slow... i doubt if it can complete by august 17?

And what would a street running above have to do with the ability of the line, itself, to run?

IIRC, the press release said that all work on the stations would not be finished, just that the line would be operational, which brings up vivid images of the Emperor making declarations about an outwardly partially finished Death Star...

[DKaz]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

My first question would be: what bus routes is the LRT replacing, and what was their ridership? Phase 1 looks like it doesn't even replace a full bus route (to the airport for example). It's like building the Evergreen line, but ending somewhere in Port Moody, short of Coq Centre and Douglas College.

I'm not sure but like the Expo Line when it first started out, Link is going through a lot of sparsely populated areas. Most of their suburban buses still go straight to Downtown Seattle. One positive is that Link connects the downtown Sounder Station which is not all that close to anything but te stadiums to the rest of te business centre.

Joyce used to be mostly industrial where the condos have gone up.

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

With the Canada Line increase you mean? Sounds like we have lots of room to grow. C-Line platforms will be fine for decades, mark my words.

No, with the new MKIIs coming in. Canada Line will be 5000 ppphd to start.

[Gordon]

Does any one have newer boarding sats for for Skytrain because 30.000 seems quite low when the #99 has 44,500 per day.

[metroXpress]

WOW...

look at the stations! They are high above street level:

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by Allen

WOW...

look at the stations! They are high above street level:

That's what you get with a median station - you need the mezzanine under the station house to access either side of the street (like Brentwood or Metrotown Stations - too tall to be urban design friendly.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Every time I see those charts, with the 99 at #1 and the 9 at #3 with a combined 72,500 boardings, compared to the 97 in 21st place with 10,200 , I ask why why WHY are they building the Evergreen Line before the UBC line?

That's the classic "growth-shaping" versus "growth-serving" debate.

The Evergreen Line is meant to shape suburban growth so it will be built high density close to stations (which is already being done in reliance on the line being built) - while the UBC Line is growth serving - to serve existing demand without much prospect for large scale densification along the (NIMBY) route.

Which takes priority? There are arguments for each side.
It's connected to the options to "build for the future" or "build for now based on a proven business case" for justifying a new line.

[lightrail]

Originally Posted by mr.x

Far too few trains online.




Translink doesn't use crush loads, so the 400 figure that InTransitBC is advertising is basically useless. I'd calculate the capacity with the normal capacity of 334 passengers per train instead. I highly doubt we'd even be capable of loading 400 people onto that 2-car train with the Vancouver mentality of needing private space.

The normal load for one Mark II car is 128 passengers while the crush load is 171 passengers.


Capacity per car (standees and seated)
- @ 4 passengers/m2: normal capacity
- @ 6 passengers/m2: crush load
- @ 8 passengers/m2: sardine can load?

My math is off - I was working on 400 per train, but the loading is stated as comfortably, 334 per car, or 668 per train. Given this, the trains can move:
- 4 minute headways = 10,020 people per hour per direction (Bridgeport to Waterfront stat-up frequency)
- 6 minute headway = 6,680 people per hour per direction (Bridgeport to Waterfront evening, early)
- 8 minute headway 5,010 people per hour per direction (Richmond and YVR branch daytime)
- 10 minute headway, 4,008 people per hour per direction (Bridgeport to after 11 pm)
- 20 min frequency 2,004 people per hour per direciton (Richmond and YVR branch after 11pm)

On Skytrain, each Mark II can handle about 170 people - so two car trains running every 108 seconds part on average (Columbia to Waterfront) can handle around 11,340 passenger per hour per direction. In the peak, there are 4-car trains and Mark 1's in service, so the actual may be higher or lower depending on the make-up.

If all trains running were Mark II 4-car consists, then the capacity would double to 22,340 per hour per direction. That won't be the case, but with the new cars, I believe we'll see significant capacity increases.

Anyway, on opening, the Canada Line capacity will be just less than Expo and Millennium combined peak capacity.

I also think the busiest stations on opening day will be Broadway City Hall and Vancouver City Centre. Once bus integration is complete, Bridgeport will be the busiest or second busiest station.

[BCPhil]

Originally Posted by officedweller

That's the classic "growth-shaping" versus "growth-serving" debate.

The Evergreen Line is meant to shape suburban growth so it will be built high density close to stations (which is already being done in reliance on the line being built) - while the UBC Line is growth serving - to serve existing demand without much prospect for large scale densification along the (NIMBY) route.

Which takes priority? There are arguments for each side.
It's connected to the options to "build for the future" or "build for now based on a proven business case" for justifying a new line.

I think you can, and have to do both.

What's the point of picking up people in the 'burbs if you can't take them to where they want to go? Broadway and UBC are the #2 and 3 destinations for commuters. By increasing the destinations you serve, you are making transit available and a reasonable alternative for people who live near it.

Growth might be slowing along the Broadway Corridor, or it might actually be at a low before a storm of growth through redevelopment.

Transit along the Broadway Corridor could "build for the future" and shape urban growth along a corridor ripe for redevelopment. As well it would serve an already huge transit destination. Adding rapid transit into the mix will result in the increase of transit ridership as people who currently drive might leave their car at home.

And by serving such hot destinations with rapid transit, you encourage people to live along rapid transit elsewhere. If you can ride the Skytrain from Coquitlam straight to where you work, it would encourage people to move there instead of living in South Surrey and driving to work. No one will live in PoMo JUST because they have Skytrain, the Skytrain NEEDS to take them where they want to go.

For example, the Canada Line has just made Richmond an even better place to live if you work near City Hall, VGH, or in Yaletown. Just the Evergreen Line isn't going to add much to the mix. To really encourage high density growth in the North East, you need the Skytrain to take them someplace they already can't get to, that's hard to get to.

The Evergreen line will encourage growth in Coqutilam/PoMo, but a UBC extension will encourage growth along the whole system as the system can take people to more highly demanded areas.

So in effect, by building the UBC extension, you are encouraging growth elsewhere, near existing Skytrain.

[lightrail]

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

I think it's rather pathetic that people are mocking Seattle.
- They have a freeway downtown
- Their line doesn't yet go to the airport
- They have a great bus system
- Cheaper parking

There are fewer incentives to ride rail right now. Give it time.

Oh... and in 1987 <<ahem>>:

source

On the low ridership (by our standards) of the Seattle Light Rail Line, I've had a look at thier transit maps and have the following observations:
1. the Light Rail Line is operated by Sound Transit, while the local buses are operated by King County Transit
2. there appears to be no integration of buses with the LRT - the buses do not seem to feed into the LRT stations - maybe this is because the agency running the buses is different.
3. a major freeway runs the length of the line - in fact, one of the posted pictures shows a 10 lane freeway beside the LRT line
4. there are many express buses serving the same areas as the LRT - people are jsut used to the buses, a single seat ride - and without integration of buses and LRT probably don't have an alternative to reach the LRT even if they wanted to use it.

On that last point, I expect Canada Line ridership to suffer until the 300 400 and 600 series bus routes serving downtown Vancouver, are all diverted to Bridgeport.

[SpongeG]

my dad said he knows some retired people who will ride it just to go have lunch at the airport - lol thats a few riders - they like the airport and trains - double win for them

that new area at the airport is awesome - was there yesterday

[mr.x]

A friend of mine asked me if I wanted to work for "an event" on August 15 and 17 at YVR. On the 15th, it'll be set up. And on the 17th, the shifts are from 10 am to 10 pm. I accepted the job, I can only assume it has to do with the Canada Line opening. :p

[Yume-sama]

Originally Posted by mr.x

A friend of mine asked me if I wanted to work for "an event" on August 15 and 17 at YVR. On the 15th, it'll be set up. And on the 17th, the shifts are from 10 am to 10 pm. I accepted the job, I can only assume it has to do with the Canada Line opening. :p

The guy in the Quatchi suit probably called in sick. H1N1 maybe?

[nname]

The new map and station travel time are up in the Skytrain page:
http://tripplanning.translink.ca/hiwire?.a=iScheduleLookupSearch&LineName=999&LineAbbr=999

Notice the mistakes?

[CLC]

Originally Posted by nname

The new map and station travel time are up in the Skytrain page:
http://tripplanning.translink.ca/hiwire?.a=iScheduleLookupSearch&LineName=999&LineAbbr=999

Notice the mistakes?

seems like I would have to pay two-zone fares for my commute from 49-Langara to Downtown

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by BCPhil

So in effect, by building the UBC extension, you are encouraging growth elsewhere, near existing Skytrain.

Definitely. The Millenium Line in it's current format is somewhat of a joke, but works well because of it's connection to the Expo Line. Assuming the Evergreen Line happens in the next 5 years, the lack of a M-Line extension to UBC should be painfully obvious to anyone... maybe that's what will be necessary to override the NIMBYs on the west side, who's arguments will never change in the face of anything.

[CLC]

Millenium Line is incomplete, but still a dramatic improvement in terms of time and frequency for a lot of people going to central Broadway area and UBC

if you ever used the pre M-Line era 99-b, from Lougheed to Commerical drive was 30-minute frequency off peak hour daytime, and the travel time just from Lougheed to Commerical drive was about 35 minutes.

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by nname

The new map and station travel time are up in the Skytrain page:
http://tripplanning.translink.ca/hiwire?.a=iScheduleLookupSearch&LineName=999&LineAbbr=999

Notice the mistakes?

lol, the stations are located in the wrong places....and the travel times (which are wrong) are horrific for the money we spent on building the line.

I win.

[Yume-sama]

Originally Posted by mr.x

lol, the stations are located in the wrong places....and the travel times (which are wrong) are horrific for the money we spent on building the line.

I win.

Well, if the NDP would have built it instead of a war criminal like Gordo...



Oh, sorry. Channeling my inner NDP.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by CLC

if you ever used the pre M-Line era 99-b, from Lougheed to Commerical drive was 30-minute frequency off peak hour daytime, and the travel time just from Lougheed to Commerical drive was about 35 minutes.

Indeed I did. I remember thinking Broadway station was busy at the time (1996). LOL.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by BCPhil

I think you can, and have to do both.

I agree with that - the "problem" that you seem to increasingly see is a need for a business case justification - which to me, may not accommodate a forward looking scenario.

[CLC]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Indeed I did. I remember thinking Broadway station was busy at the time (1996). LOL.

1996 was the year B-Line commence, right? (my memory faded as I am getting older)