Canada Line | Completed

[agrant]

Yea, Japan do a lot of things really well, but as you may already know their population is at least 4 times larger, and it is a country with something like 1/25th the total land. We simply don't have the same pressures to build like that. They have no choice really. It's cool to see, and I'd love to go over there and experience it though.

[Yume-sama]

Originally Posted by agrant

Yea, Japan do a lot of things really well, but as you may already know their population is at least 4 times larger, and it is a country with something like 1/25th the total land. We simply don't have the same pressures to build like that. They have no choice really. It's cool to see, and I'd love to go over there and experience it though.

Well... after the Olympics when 30 million people want to move to Vancouver... the "Best place on Earth"... we will need tiered cities!

Forward thinking!

[racc]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

It is so nice being in a society that puts functionality first and does not cave in to every special interest group.

They have total caved in to a special interest group, the road building lobby. They often build expensive roads that are not needed really at all.

[SpongeG]

it doesn't look very liveable

[Rusty Gull]

Originally Posted by racc

They have total caved in to a special interest group, the road building lobby. They often build expensive roads that are not needed really at all.

Wrong. At least you're wrong if you're referring to the metropolises. If anything, Osaka and Tokyo could use more expressways. That's why they have MAJOR tolling (a great incentive for mass transit, by the way) and MAJOR congestion.

The wasteful road-building goes on in the "countryside" - where rural politicians have major (and disproportionate) sway and hence have to get their "pork".

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by agrant

Yea, Japan do a lot of things really well, but as you may already know their population is at least 4 times larger, and it is a country with something like 1/25th the total land. We simply don't have the same pressures to build like that. They have no choice really. It's cool to see, and I'd love to go over there and experience it though.

It's more cultural. They have a homogenous system because it's a commonly held cultural value there. That's why the bullet trains use the same ticket machines as the local subways and the airport express and the private railways. It's all about predictability and using the same system country wide makes sense.

From a young age they have people directing them, whether it's a parking attendant (I went to a small fish market and there were 6 workers in uniforms just directing traffic and helping people park) or just about authority. People generally have respect for authority, be it doctors or police officers. So, it's what they're used to. As a result of this, they have signs asking people to line up because they found out that it made the system more efficient. People actually follow them so it works.

Do that here, and there will be 50% who line up and the other half who rush for the doors as soon as they open.

Anyway, just pointing out that although density makes it easy for them build these lines, the things they do on these lines (including following a policy of ALWAYS looking for ways to improve) are great examples to follow.

Here we are more along the lines of... Well, it's not broken and not too many have complained, so why should we do anything more to make it better?

As for livability, you'd be surprised. They are always looking at places they can erect sound barriers which do a fantastic job. I've seen dense housing right beside an elevated freeway which had less noise from traffic than living on any arterial here. They may not "look" pretty and not as nice to drive on (as you're in a canyon) but more attention and priority is put towards those living there. It's also why they actually limit their trains speed in some areas, because of the boom that happens when it enters a tunnel is annoying for residents in the area.

[Metro-One]

It is very livable! And yes the sound barriers are great on the freeways and train lines. On the freeway it looks as if you are driving through a canyon, and all the signage is clear, clean, uses lights and is uniform. The trains are amazing clean and no etching in the glass or seats to be seen!

And to RCC there is probably 5 times more elevated train structures than freeways, so stop picking on the freeways. i am talking about the transit structure in general.

And Vancouver will never have a biking culture until we actually keep our streets well marked. All the road markings here are clear as day, everywhere, and i believe that is major component in encouraging biking and keeping traffic flowing well.

Also i wish we did have a few more uniforms in Vancouver, i do get tired of everyone dressing like a bum. Why dont our skytrain attendants wear ties and white gloves as well? I swear people respect someone in a nice uniform much more than what looks like a rent a cop's or a mechanics jump suit.

I was downtown last night and a strong wind blew through and a few signs fell over, and 2 police officers saw that and came over immediately and picked the signs up and put the few pieces of garbage on the ground in the trash.

Also the homeless people here have pride and dont beg in the street. There are not people shooting up in the streets and one does not have to worry about being pricked by a needle.

And all the lights really do make a cheery atmosphere and make the streets feel much more safe at night.

These are all just aspects i feel Vancouver should be looking to adopt as we grow, and if we actually treat our ALR lands as no build zones then Vancouver will be at a population crunch point sooner than one would think. While in Japan i boost Vancouver big time, i tell them all the great things about vancouver and over the years i have probably directly caused over 20 people to come from japan to Vancouver (first i convince my Japanese friends to come to vancouver, they do, i show them around, they love it, they convince their friends to come visit or learn english, etc...)

But here on this forum i like pointing out the aspects we should be looking at in Japan for guidance.

Anyways, i am out for another day of fast, frequent, grade separated train travel

[crazyjoeda]

Originally Posted by Yume-sama

Japans infrastructure is amazing. In Japan, roads go THROUGH you, not around you if you're in the way



The thing that amazed me my first time in Tokyo, on the bus, was that you were always at about the 5th or 6th level of a building, and under you there was a ground level road network, and above you was more roads.

Like in that picture, we have... expressway, railway, ground level roads.

Are you sure that road went through that building? It would make more sense for that building to have been constructed around the existing road. I was in Japan about a month ago and Tokyo is a cool city but I wouldn't live their. It seems like many people in Tokyo have a poor quality of life, commuting for hours, working long hours and living in cramped housing. The Japanese do have amazing infrastructure but they should do something for cyclists, bikes are allowed to ride on the crowed sidewalks I was always being forced out of their way.

[cornholio]

They also have a suicide rate more than double ours, which by the way is directly related to their tidy street, organizational level, good manners, and the importance of honor in their culture.

Sometimes things are a bit more complicated than they appear on the surface.

Regarding their infrastructure, like others have mentioned their population densities are on another level compared to ours, its like bashing Pemberton for not being more like Vancouver and building a skytrain network.

Never been to Japan though and I must say it looks like a fascinating place. Having said that there is no way in hell I would like to live there, im sure of that, infact I dont even like Vancouver(due to its size), im the type that prefers a city like Victoria, or even better a acreage out in but f*ck nowhere.
Though I do find cities fascinating, and thats why im here...but life is just so much simpler and more relaxed in medium to small sized cities(people who never really live outside of major cities dont even realize it).

[NetMapel]

We're only commenting on Japanese' transportation system here, not their culture, haha. There is no reason why a city like Vancouver could not have a more uniformed transportation system that makes traveling here more efficient. We should be studying the Japanese' transportation system to see how it can be modified to fit our city. This has nothing to do with their "culture of uniformity".

[DKaz]

The suburbs of Tokyo like Koganei are actually nice places to live. Very walkable city, lots of trees, nice parks, pretty quiet. It's still dense (about the size of New Westminster, 110,000 people in 2001) but it was a city in near perfect harmony.

In regards to cyclists, they tend to ride slower in Japan like jogging speeds so IMO it was not an issue.

[Yume-sama]

I SAW THE CANADA LINE TRAIN FOR THE FIRST TIME ON THE WAY HOME FROM THE AIRPORT!

I got giddy. But didn't have camera in hand.

[SpongeG]

aww thats cute

i've seen them many times now

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by crazyjoeda

Are you sure that road went through that building? It would make more sense for that building to have been constructed around the existing road.

You are correct. I can't remember if it was some sort of protest build, but I wouldn't doubt it. Land owners in Japan have lots of power.

I was in Japan about a month ago and Tokyo is a cool city but I wouldn't live their. It seems like many people in Tokyo have a poor quality of life, commuting for hours, working long hours and living in cramped housing.

Tokyo isn't Japan. It's almost a country unto itself. There's plenty of stuff outside of the Kanto Plain. Their housing is dense, that's taken to an extreme in Tokyo... but not Japan in General. There's a lot of variety. Every city in the US is not New York after all.

The Japanese do have amazing infrastructure but they should do something for cyclists, bikes are allowed to ride on the crowed sidewalks I was always being forced out of their way.

There are more cyclists because they ride utility bikes. Usually 1-3 speeds and meant more for transportation/going to the grocery store. You won't find many "spandex-clad uber-bikers" there (no offense to any spandex-clad uber-bikers here) because bikes are more associated with pedestrians than cars.

As a result, they don't have the asinine rules that we have like "you need to keep your bum on the seat or get fined" and you "need" to wear a helmet when riding around the seawall.

Bikes here are road vehicles.
Bikes there are part of the pedestrian fabric.

Moms with baby-seat bikes going to the local grocery store.
Parents who bike to the train station to get to work.
Kids who bike to school.

Most of those bikes are also cheap $100 bikes with chintsy locks.

Originally Posted by cornholio

Never been to Japan though and I must say it looks like a fascinating place. Having said that there is no way in hell I would like to live there, im sure of that, infact I dont even like Vancouver(due to its size), im the type that prefers a city like Victoria, or even better a acreage out in but f*ck nowhere.

You'd love Japan, then. 80% of the country is mountains and there are tonnes of tiny little villages out in the middle of nowhere. That's the side of Japan that people rarely see, but there's a whole lot more to the country than Tokyo and bullet trains.

Though I do find cities fascinating, and thats why im here...but life is just so much simpler and more relaxed in medium to small sized cities(people who never really live outside of major cities dont even realize it).

This is true. Japan is no different. But, they don't have the wilderness that Canada has. Few countries do, however.

[deasine]

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

Bikes here are road vehicles.
Bikes there are part of the pedestrian fabric.

Moms with baby-seat bikes going to the local grocery store.
Parents who bike to the train station to get to work.
Kids who bike to school.

Most of those bikes are also cheap $100 bikes with chintsy locks.

That can be the same for Europe, though I would say European Biking Culture would be a mix of the two. The Paris Velo Liberte system is so successful because it emphasizes on local biking: biking to the grocery store, etc. I think we are trying to develop a culture like this in Vancouver, but it's incredibly hard because everything is still so spread out, not to mention our current biking infrastrucutre (plus our improvements and projects) aren't enough to make biking an actual viable and attractive option to the general public.

[kylemacmac]

Yeah, it's all about encouraging local short bike trips. The kind you can do without any preparation. Just grab a bike and go. Militant bike commuting to downtown from far-flung suburbs is extremist and unlikely-to-ever-be-popular behavior. Especially when it rains: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sn5l9JwuUmk

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by deasine

That can be the same for Europe, though I would say European Biking Culture would be a mix of the two. The Paris Velo Liberte system is so successful because it emphasizes on local biking: biking to the grocery store, etc. I think we are trying to develop a culture like this in Vancouver, but it's incredibly hard because everything is still so spread out, not to mention our current biking infrastrucutre (plus our improvements and projects) aren't enough to make biking an actual viable and attractive option to the general public.

I think it helps that they have super-wide sidewalks (by our standards) which are built to accommodate two bikes riding side by side. The shared pathway on 2nd Ave. east of Clark is a good example of what you would typically see in countries with "Utility Bike" cultures. In Japan, people in suits ride their bike to the station with an umbrella in hand. That's illegal here. What I don't understand is the seeming double standard. I saw in the paper that talking on the phone while riding a bike is illegal and will get you a fine, but in a car, it's okay.

[SpongeG]

biking isn't that practical in vancouver - its too hilly and wet

unless you can shower when you get to work you get all sweaty and gross

its great for recreation but not so great for commuting

[LeftCoaster]

^Well more and more companies are looking to implement "end of trip" facilities in their offices. Our new office has one and it works quite well. I make the trip in by bike at least once a week and it is a 25k commute... although I do find excuses not to go between December and February.

[SpongeG]

yah

we have a shower at work i don't know how many use uit but its basically for people who choose to bike here

the hills would kill me