Hamilton Without Steel?

[Jon Dalton]

Originally Posted by markbarbera

Now it's time for me to say 'ugh'...

So I can look forward to a bright future stacking pallets in a logistics warehouse way the hell up highway 6? Awesome.

[markbarbera]

Originally Posted by Jon Dalton

So I can look forward to a bright future stacking pallets in a logistics warehouse way the hell up highway 6? Awesome.

Try looking at the big picture. If the city develops a multi-modal transport gateway stategy, this would become a distinct draw for attracting new industries who'd be certain to take full advantage of a convenient multi-modal method of shipping in raw materials and shipping out finished product. Refer to this McMaster University study.

While there would be some new jobs stacking pallets in a logistics warehouse, there would also be a lot more new jobs providing the goods that require stacking on those pallets. And that I agree would be awesome.

[SteelTown]

Take a look at Winnipeg and Centreport.

[Jon Dalton]

So by multimodal you mean rail and water, or just air and road?

I just find it hard to get excited about job opportunities even further away than I already commute and with no public transit.

Our established industrial area is accessible by bike, HSR and road and existing transport infrastructure. Will it find its place in Hamilton's future as a transport hub?

[FairHamilton]

This is too funny. I say "funny" because the other day I'd changed my signature to read something to the effect, "I live in Ward 3 and it's a drive-thru Ward."

It was a commentary on the one way streets and the thousands of cars that move through my neighbourhood on King & Main Street. Tim Hortons has figured it out and that's why most of the locations in my ward (Barton, Burlington, Main 1 and soon to be Main 2) are drive-thrus.

But, I chose not to save that signature because I thought it was too negative.

Now I see there are those who want to take the expertise of my Ward and expand it to the full city. Wow great!! So my expertise in living in the drive-thru ward should mean I can make out like a bandit in a drive-thru city and get executive level employment......

[markbarbera]

Originally Posted by Jon Dalton

So by multimodal you mean rail and water, or just air and road?

I just find it hard to get excited about job opportunities even further away than I already commute and with no public transit.

Our established industrial area is accessible by bike, HSR and road and existing transport infrastructure. Will it find its place in Hamilton's future as a transport hub?

Most definitely the entire Bayfont Industrial area has a prominent role in the strategy. Its rail and seaport are a key focal points for the strategy, seeing as rail and sea transports are increasing in popularity due to their cost effectiveness and positive sustainability qualities. And, not forgetting that transport of people is an important part of the economic equation, enhanced public transit is also part of the strategy.

Please have a look at that Mac study that I posted a link to. Here it is again.

Here is a list of the key elements comprising the vision of Hamilton as a Gateway City:

-Intensified development at the Port of Hamilton (diversify goods, logisitcs facilities at port, establish container facility at Pier 27, ferry service Toronto and NY)
-Utilize existing Industrial lands (intensify business employment densities)
-Target Growth at Hamilton Airport (phased approach, target specific industries, expand HIA's role as passenger airport)
-Brownfield Development (intensify use of brownfields, increased incentives to redevelop brownfields)
-Increased Connectivity between Employment Hubs
-Expand the Role of Public Transit
-Limit Urban Sprawl
-Create a transport-focused Gateway Organization
-Market Hamilton as a Gateway Concept


It is obvious by some of the posts here that there is a clear misconception on what the strategy involves. The report helps clear up miconceptions and misinformation, provided people actually read it before passing comment on it.

[hmagazine]

Not sure about you - but I want Hamilton to be more than a gateway.

[markbarbera]

Originally Posted by hmagazine

Not sure about you - but I want Hamilton to be more than a gateway.

I don't think you understand the concept. The strategy does not say "Hamilton will just be a gateway". By adopting a gateway strategy, the city actually positions its industrial base for growth in all employment sectors. It provides the city the kind of environment that encourages growth in a sustainable manner by promoting intensification and limiting sprawl. That's why there is so much emphasis on intensifying existing industrial parks and offering more incentives for brownfield redevelopment. Are these not things you want for our city?

[adam]

A gateway is a route of passage - there is nothing sustainable about making a city into a passageway. Look at Main and King Streets, perfect examples of gateways. Is this really a sustainable model?

The majority of Hamiltonians - those living in the lower city - are working hard to turn Hamilton into a destination instead of just a passageway on to something else.

Thumbs down to Hamilton as a gateway. Thumbs up to Hamilton as a vibrant, sustainable destination.

[markbarbera]

Originally Posted by adam

A gateway is a route of passage - there is nothing sustainable about making a city into a passageway. Look at Main and King Streets, perfect examples of gateways. Is this really a sustainable model?

The majority of Hamiltonians - those living in the lower city - are working hard to turn Hamilton into a destination instead of just a passageway on to something else.

Thumbs down to Hamilton as a gateway. Thumbs up to Hamilton as a vibrant, sustainable destination.

Instead of perpetuating ignorance based on false preconceptions, why not actually study the concept before making false assumptions on what is meant by a Gateway strategy?

Read the study: http://mitl.mcmaster.ca/documents/Ha...ay_Project.pdf

Adopting a gateway strategy is anything but simply making the city a passageway on to something else. It is about establishing the groundwork that will incubate industrial development (and redevelopment). This strategy dovetails neatly with the Innovation Park concept, and will be a major contributor to making Hamilton a vibrant, sustainable destination city.

BTW, Main and King are perfect examples of what is not a gateway strategy. If you bothered to educate yourself on the concept you wouldn't dare to make such a ridiculous statement (ranks right up there with that idiotic 'nicotine is added to Tim Hortons coffee' theory you tried to sell sometime back). The strategy calls for truck traffic to be removed from urban settings and promotes high capacity public transit like LRT over personal automobile traffic. It calls for intensification of urban areas and a restraint to sprawl. Only a moron would consider these as undesireable qualities for our city.

[fastcarsfreedom]

Hi kids...it's been way too long that I've been sitting back passively watching the discourse here. Let me be the first to say that only here, at this Forum, would a relatively positive media program about the city/region's future be sliced and diced and defecated on because it was...what...too positive? Perhaps we need something more "realistic" like media reports on social ills, an ailing downtown or one of the other many perpetual "myth-truths" about the City.

In addition, the Ti-Cats are one of the many things that make Hamilton unique...something that binds everyone in the city together--a thread that flows through the history of the City through good times and bad...just because YOU aren't talking about them, doesn't make them some relic of the past or something Steve Paikin dare not let pass from his lips. While beating the drum about so-called 'special interests' -- perhaps take a step back and glance in the mirror. Kudos to markbarbera--we've frequently had our differences, but I appreciate your enlightened and balanced discourse.

[adam]

On page 27 of the report, it states that Dubai is a sustainable development. However, the reality is that the city of Dubai is falling apart at the seams and quickly becoming a ghost town.

Another puzzling section on page 66 of the report cites Hamilton as a city with a lot of traffic congestion. Apparently Hamilton's traffic congestion is a limiting factor for business growth. Contrast this claim with the reality that Hamilton has far less congestion than Toronto, and Toronto's business development dwarfs Hamilton's business dev.

I think that page 72 has some excellent points.

All the air quality graphs in 3.7.1 are from 2006-07 before closure of Stelco and are no longer current. The front of the report says it is from 2009 but many references are from before the economic downturn.

Exhibit 4.37 and 4.38 show that in 2031 under this "Gateway" model, only 1-2% will walk to work, and 74-85% will still drive automobiles to work.

I'll let you draw your own conclusions as to how liveable the city of Hamilton will be under this model.

[markbarbera]

Originally Posted by adam

On page 27 of the report, it states that Dubai is a sustainable development. However, the reality is that the city of Dubai is falling apart at the seams and quickly becoming a ghost town.

Dubai is not immune from this global recession, but the description of it becoming a ghost town is a melodramatic over-exaggeration. In fact, it is one of the first cities to already start showing signs of economic recovery. A factor contributing to its early recovery is its adoption of a gateway strategy.

Originally Posted by adam

Another puzzling section on page 66 of the report cites Hamilton as a city with a lot of traffic congestion. Apparently Hamilton's traffic congestion is a limiting factor for business growth. Contrast this claim with the reality that Hamilton has far less congestion than Toronto, and Toronto's business development dwarfs Hamilton's business dev.

While the report does discuss the impact of congestion on urban environments, it certainly does not cite Hamilton as having a lot of traffic congestion anywhere in the report.

Originally Posted by adam

I think that page 72 has some excellent points.

Agreed

Originally Posted by adam

All the air quality graphs in 3.7.1 are from 2006-07 before closure of Stelco and are no longer current. The front of the report says it is from 2009 but many references are from before the economic downturn.

Not so. The closure of US Steel's Hamilton facility is temporary, as is this economic downturn. It will be returning to production once recovery has been achieved. Consequently the air quality info remains relevant.

Originally Posted by adam

Exhibit 4.37 and 4.38 show that in 2031 under this "Gateway" model, only 1-2% will walk to work, and 74-85% will still drive automobiles to work.

You are combining the results of two different modelling exercises, and you have omitted information that can be interpreted as positive. For example, exhibit 4.38 shows the projected Modal split of work trips under the Compact+LRT Gateway model scenario. Under this scenario, 74% of work trips would be made by automobile, 17% would be by public transit, 8% as auto passengers, and 1% by foot. That represents more than a 300% increase in current level of public transit work trips, and a 15% reduction in current automobile trips to work.

[adam]

Here is an article from today, May 24th entitled Dubai Economy in Free Fall"
But besides this, I didn't know that Dubai and Hamilton were comparable regions. Is this what the report is suggesting?

While the report does discuss the impact of congestion on urban environments, it certainly does not cite Hamilton as having a lot of traffic congestion anywhere in the report.

Take a closer look at page 66. It discusses how bottlenecks in traffic (causing congestion) are a reason that Hamilton is suffering economically. And yet, can get from one end of Hamilton to the other in 10 minutes.

[BCTed]

Originally Posted by adam

Here is an article from today, May 24th entitled Dubai Economy in Free Fall"

That article is clearly from February 12, 2009.

[fastcarsfreedom]

BCTed...good to see you alive and kicking as well.

[BCTed]

Originally Posted by fastcarsfreedom

BCTed...good to see you alive and kicking as well.

Hi fastcars. Hope all is well with you. I'm still around.

I don't post as much these days because I do not see nearly as much closed-minded militance on here. It's a bit less exciting, but I don't actually mind that people seem to be mostly getting along pretty well and respecting one another's viewpoints.

adam is a fun case because I cannot tell if he is a troll or not.

[mic67]

hahahahaha

mic67