ATLANTA | Development Thread V

[skapunkskatedude]

While i've been to a few decent Krogers in Atlanta, i can't say that thats the usual for Krogers. The majority of Krogers i've been to tend to have shoddy customer service, and while not unclean, certainly don't seem as clean or inviting as Publix. I can't think of a single Publix i've been to which has been in slightest bit dirty, and customer service always seems excellent. I definitely think Publix maintains higher standards than Kroger.

Then again, i'm not sure a grocery store is what i have in mind when i think of the Midtown Mile, but i suppose you have to start somewhere

[scania]

Originally Posted by sevensixtwo

Think where you normally see Kroger (Piedmont and North, Howell Mill and 75). Now imagine where you see Publix (Plaza Midtown, Howell Mill and Collier). Its a little nicer right? What upscale neighborhood prefers Kroger? You can practically differentiate between upscale neighborhoods and others by whether Publix or Kroger dominates. If a Kroger opens up on the Mile I think it will be officially ok to call the dream a failure. The grocers really do have different business models.

That is absurd. There is a Publix on Ponce, and there is a Kroger on Peachtree and 26th. That Kroger is nicer and is in a more upscale neighborhood.Also, there are plenty of Kroger stores in upscale areas. By the way, the Publix on Ponce is rather nasty. Maybe you should explore Alpharetta, and other areas, and even inside the city, before making such a ridiculius statement. One more example, the Disco Kroger.

[cybele]

To me Publix is a place where you might pick up a loaf of bread but if you want to do some serious shopping and need more quality and selection Kroger is definitely the best bet.

[sunking1056]

Originally Posted by cybele

To me Publix is a place where you might pick up a loaf of bread but if you want to do some serious shopping and need more quality and selection Kroger is definitely the best bet.

I would say just the opposite. Then again, I might assume the bread at Kroger to be stale and off-brand. I've honestly never once heard anyone claim that Kroger is nicer or better than Publix.

[ATLaffinity]

Originally Posted by ls1z28chris

I think either one would fit better than whole foods, which is a speciality market for people riding the organic trend. The MM would be better off, in my opinion, with a general grocery store whether Publix or Kroger.

you think Whole Foods is riding some temporary trend??? nice ride so far...

Kroger or Publix would be a disaster for MM. We can all drive to those. Only a Whole Foods would activate the street level.

The St. Regis is Buckhead highlights their proximity to a Whole Foods. There is no cachet to a Publix or Kroger. I shop at the Publix but it's not what MM needs.

MM doesn't have to be Rodeo Dr but it does need some interesting stores to make people want to walk around.

[ls1z28chris]

Originally Posted by ATLaffinity

you think Whole Foods is riding some temporary trend??? nice ride so far...

Kroger or Publix would be a disaster for MM. We can all drive to those. Only a Whole Foods would activate the street level.

The St. Regis is Buckhead highlights their proximity to a Whole Foods. There is no cachet to a Publix or Kroger. I shop at the Publix but it's not what MM needs.

MM doesn't have to be Rodeo Dr but it does need some interesting stores to make people want to walk around.

I think a lot of the people who shop at Whole Foods are riding along with the organic food trend. From what I've read, they're losing customers because of the recession.

The only Whole Foods I've ever been in is one in San Diego. I honestly don't see any cache. They charge more for crap with a dubious "organic" label that people stop paying for when money is tight.

[gttx]

Originally Posted by ls1z28chris

I think a lot of the people who shop at Whole Foods are riding along with the organic food trend. From what I've read, they're losing customers because of the recession.

The only Whole Foods I've ever been in is one in San Diego. I honestly don't see any cache. They charge more for crap with a dubious "organic" label that people stop paying for when money is tight.

The cache is that they have better food. I really don't care if something says "organic" on it, but I do appreciate a better (and more refined) selection of all different types of food. This, of course, means it is slightly more expensive than, say, Publix, which is why people are reconsidering where they shop at the moment - not because "organic" has suddenly become less popular.

Also, can we get off the Kroger vs. Publix discussion? I just went through 2 pages back and forth about which is more "upscale." Here is the answer: neither. Now move on.

[cybele]

Originally Posted by ATLaffinity

Kroger or Publix would be a disaster for MM. We can all drive to those. Only a Whole Foods would activate the street level.

Yeah, but we can all drive to a Whole Foods, too. Why can't a Kroger or Publix activate the street level as well as any other grocery store?

[ls1z28chris]

Originally Posted by gttx

The cache is that they have better food. I really don't care if something says "organic" on it, but I do appreciate a better (and more refined) selection of all different types of food. This, of course, means it is slightly more expensive than, say, Publix, which is why people are reconsidering where they shop at the moment - not because "organic" has suddenly become less popular.

Also, can we get off the Kroger vs. Publix discussion? I just went through 2 pages back and forth about which is more "upscale." Here is the answer: neither. Now move on.

Since when does folks buying less of something mean anything other than that it is losing popularity?

Whole Foods serve a niche of hippies/hipsters and yuppies who want to pay more for the same crap they can get at any other grocery store.

If you want a grocery store with cache, build a farmer's market. If you want street level activity, build a place where more people will actually want to shop.

[sevensixtwo]

Originally Posted by scania

That is absurd. There is a Publix on Ponce, and there is a Kroger on Peachtree and 26th. That Kroger is nicer and is in a more upscale neighborhood.Also, there are plenty of Kroger stores in upscale areas. By the way, the Publix on Ponce is rather nasty. Maybe you should explore Alpharetta, and other areas, and even inside the city, before making such a ridiculius statement. One more example, the Disco Kroger.

Cant a guy make generalizations? Did I say ALL this and ALL that? No, IMHO Publix is nicer and MM needs better stuff than Kroger. Pardon my absurdity! Christ!

[foxmccleod]

The grocery store in question will not be on Peachtree, it will be on the block west of 1010 Midtown, Phase 4 of 12th and Midtown. The one proposed for Allen Plaza will actually be below grade. This is a good solution, as they take up a large amount of space, have little need for street frontage, and can still locate in an urban area without compromising an activated streetfront.

Regardless, it will be some time before one is built, since Phase 3 is next and does not yet have a definite timeline.

[ls1z28chris]

I posted some pretty big updates to the BB&T building and the Atlantic threads in the construction forum. A member suggested that I post them here in the hopes that it would get us off a grocery store debate.

The photos are a part of a larger set that I posted in the photo forum. I focused on Atlantic Station since I've never really explored and photographed that area before.

The Atlantic:




Anyone have updates on whether the condos in the Atlantic will be auctioned like the other condos in Element and Twelve? What do y'all think about how the building has turned out now that it is nearly finished.

BB&T Tower:




I'm curious as to what y'all think of Atlantic Station as a whole. I got run out of there by security because it is AIG property. City streets owned by a bailed out corporation of crooks? How about avoiding that nonsense as Atlanta grows.

Here's to hoping the conversation turns from grocery store debate.

[Atlwest281]

I don't understand this debate. Wether your trendy or just a regular person you need a place to buy groceries that are priced decently and is convenient. The debate between Kroger and Publix doesn't matter. Either one would be AN ASSET to the neighborhood. Personally it should be a 24 hour store maybe downsized a bit to fit the market, have self checkout a larger wine deli and bakery section and be open and airy.
Maybe an Ingles, I know dont scoff though. The new format of Ingles blows Publix and Kroger out of the water. If you ever have a chance to see the New ingles in Hiram its really fantastic.

[kamden99]

about Publix vs. Kroger?? Are you guys that bored?

I posted a fairly insightful article about the economy's impact on the Midtown Mile, and the one topic that came from it was this??? I'm kind of sorry I posted it now.

How about talking about these items?

• This week, many Atlanta developers will head to Las Vegas for the largest retail conference of the year (the International Council of Shopping Centers Show) in the hopes of luring new tenants to their developments. Supposedly, some big announcements could be coming later this summer.
  
  
• The fact that we were railing on Dewberry a few years ago for not moving forward with a project...he's sitting pretty right now. Just think if he had started construction on his project around the same time as 12th & Midtown and Viewpoint? He'd be in the same predicament as the rest of the developers...a big project with few tenants...I guess he made the right decision in waiting.

[ls1z28chris]

Originally Posted by kamden99

about Publix vs. Kroger?? Are you guys that bored?

I posted a fairly insightful article about the economy's impact on the Midtown Mile, and the one topic that came from it was this??? I'm kind of sorry I posted it now.

How about talking about these items?

• This week, many Atlanta developers will head to Las Vegas for the largest retail conference of the year (the International Council of Shopping Centers Show) in the hopes of luring new tenants to their developments. Supposedly, some big announcements could be coming later this summer.
  
  
• The fact that we were railing on Dewberry a few years ago for not moving forward with a project...he's sitting pretty right now. Just think if he had started construction on his project around the same time as 12th & Midtown and Viewpoint? He'd be in the same predicament as the rest of the developers...a big project with few tenants...I guess he made the right decision in waiting.

I honestly don't understand the obsession with wanting to bring big name retailers into Midtown. Sure, it would be nice to say we have all these huge international names down there, but I don't think it is feasible.

A lot of premium retailers are already planted up by or in Lenox, Phipps, and Perimeter, where they benifit from easy access off 285 and 75 from the northern suburbs in Fulton, Gwinett, and Cobb. Is the presence of those premium retailers in Midtown really going to pull those customers in from Buckhead or Sandy Springs?

Sure, the people who live in that immediate area would like to have those names in their neighborhood, but I don't think those folks are enough to sustain those stores.

[RobMidtowner]

^You should read the retail forecast report on the midtown mile website. There has been a lot of research done already and the demographics already exist.

P.S. Nice pics!

[briantech]

Originally Posted by ls1z28chris

Whole Foods serve a niche of hippies/hipsters and yuppies who want to pay more for the same crap they can get at any other grocery store.

That really isn't true. Have you ever seen Whole Food's meat counter? Or their ready to eat buffets? Their cheese counter?

I do almost all my shopping at publix, but when it comes to fresh meats, Whole Foods just plain beats them. Any time I am going to grill out I make the trip to whole foods. They have a huge selection of ready to grill, marinated, seasoned meats like bison bacon cheddar burgers, jerk chicken kabobs, tons of fresh made bratwursts, and the steaks are much much better.

Whole foods is simply an upscale, gourmet level grocery store with lots of niche products you can't find in normal grocery stores. If you'd ever walked around in one you'd know that.

[ls1z28chris]

Originally Posted by briantech

That really isn't true. Have you ever seen Whole Food's meat counter? Or their ready to eat buffets? Their cheese counter?

I do almost all my shopping at publix, but when it comes to fresh meats, Whole Foods just plain beats them. Any time I am going to grill out I make the trip to whole foods. They have a huge selection of ready to grill, marinated, seasoned meats like bison bacon cheddar burgers, jerk chicken kabobs, tons of fresh made bratwursts, and the steaks are much much better.

Whole foods is simply an upscale, gourmet level grocery store with lots of niche products you can't find in normal grocery stores. If you'd ever walked around in one you'd know that.

I went to a Whole Foods two years ago in San Diego looking to get stuff so I could make turkey sandwiches. That experience was so frustrating that I haven't visited one since.

If I want specialty products, I make the trip to Harry's.

^You should read the retail forecast report on the midtown mile website. There has been a lot of research done already and the demographics already exist.

P.S. Nice pics!

I'll have to check that out. Thanks for the info.

[cybele]

Originally Posted by gttx

Also, can we get off the Kroger vs. Publix discussion? I just went through 2 pages back and forth about which is more "upscale." Here is the answer: neither. Now move on.

They're both excellent grocery stores. I think the discussion got started when someone claimed that a Kroger would be a "disaster" for the midtown mile.

[Dettmann1]

Originally Posted by ls1z28chris

I went to a Whole Foods two years ago in San Diego looking to get stuff so I could make turkey sandwiches. That experience was so frustrating that I haven't visited one since.

If I want specialty products, I make the trip to Harry's.



I'll have to check that out. Thanks for the info.

You realize that Harry's is owned by whole foods, don't you? They got bought out several years ago.