ATLANTA | Development Thread V

[ugagrad08]

Originally Posted by ugagrad08

Actually, I beg to differ. Personally, I am shocked to see the minute foot traffic that we have now given there are very few (1280West) condos on that side of Midtown and very few reasons for individuals to walk from AS to that side of Midtown. I've walked from the Arts Station to AS on a hot summer day and it was not as bad as you think it'd be. Now, imagine when things begin to fill up on either side of that bridge (whether it be 5yrs or 50 from now, more optimistic and hoping next 2-5yrs) people will be pouring in from Midtown into Atlantic Station. Whether it's too "one race" or not, Atlantic Station offers the only consolidated area of retail/restaurant and movie theater in the entire Midtown/Downtown area so people WILL walk from Midtown across the VERY wide and welcoming bridge (which I think is just fine-yes, some flora would be nice but I imagine that's what the grated fence is for in the future) into Atlantic Station. If the Met Center continues with their development at Spring & 17th, tons of employees will be trekking that "ugly bridge" DAILY to have lunch in AS and maybe grab a dress or top to go out after work in AS. Also, I imagine all of the condos planned for that N. Midtown area will house at least a handful of Wachovia, Dillards, & whatever else that may fill those gigantic and welcoming holes.

And lets not forget as more and more families and younger folks/student pour into the city proper, they'll keep the foot traffic consistent throughout the day as they trek from their Inman Park/Grant Park townhomes-Renovated Castleberry Hill lofts into AS all hours of the day. Maybe I'm too optimistic but I like to think I'm an urban realist and know what people are willing to do given the proper infrastructure to get the hell out of their cars.

[ATLaffinity]

Originally Posted by kamden99

For the past few days, a herd of protesters has been marching out in in front of ViewPoint in Midtown. I seem to recall seeing them around the Georgia Tech campus a few months ago, and then over at Plaza Midtown too.

They seem to be mad at the developers for some reason...anyway, I thought someone here might know what the deal was.

Mods, if this post should go somewhere else, please let me know. Thanks.

are they the union protesters or something different?

they were protesting palomar recently.

[delarosa]

Originally Posted by ugagrad08

Actually, I beg to differ....

I'm very familiar with the walk. I enjoy it, but then again, I really enjoy walking. However, in so far as practical daily walks are concerned (grabbing some groceries, a bite, pick up some office supplies, mailing something, etc.) those distances become more impractical. Making an "afternoon of it"...yes, perhaps.

In so far as the infill, that all makes sense at a very high conceptual level. Yes, more density, more trips, etc. But how about some more specific hypotheticals...

Let's say the stretch along Spring sees 5 high rises in the next 5-10 years, in addition to the mixed use on Peachtree, plus a Museum Place or two. And let's assume they're on the scale of a Metropolis, so 500 units each ~= 3000+ residents in that general area...who knows how much more office space. Factor in that these places might range from 1/4-1/2+ mile or so from AS.

So in my mind there are then two scenarios: workers in the area and residents. In terms of the residents in the evenings or weekends, what are the reasonable factors for how many of these people will choose AS as a destination at any one given time? I'm sure there's some standard estimate and one would think that number will decline the further one gets. Also factoring in that this same development will also mean many additional food and other consumption along Peachtree/W Peachtree/Spring themselves, can we hazard some pie in the sky average? 5%? 10%? Those would seem very high to me, but even for the sake of argument, let's say it's 300 people a day.

In so far as the lunch crowds, how many people do you know that will walk 1/4-1/2 mile for lunch (given a typical 1 or so hour lunch window)? Again, considering their campuses and these new (and other adjacent dev) will afford many lunch options.

I guess from my perspective, even given these rates, these are relatively light numbers of peds making that trip. Of course, if we're talking about "50" years from now, that's not exactly what I'd considering medium term, which was my point to begin with. But even still, most people I know in large cities will typically not make that walk, but hop a cab or jump a bus/train, particularly with any form of time constraint (lunch, busy day, etc.).

Hopefully I'm wrong, but...

[Snakebit]

Does anyone know what construction or renovation is going on at Walton Street downtown by the federal court? ... seems like something major.

[DoteDote]

Originally Posted by kamden99

For the past few days, a herd of protesters has been marching out in in front of ViewPoint in Midtown. I seem to recall seeing them around the Georgia Tech campus a few months ago, and then over at Plaza Midtown too.

They seem to be mad at the developers for some reason...anyway, I thought someone here might know what the deal was.

Maybe it's this same group of protesters from way back on Feb 28th:

http://www.cbsatlanta.com/video/18805424/

[ATLaffinity]

Originally Posted by ugagrad08

Atlantic Station offers the only consolidated area of retail/restaurant and movie theater in the entire Midtown/Downtown area so people WILL walk from Midtown across the VERY wide and welcoming bridge (which I think is just fine-yes, some flora would be nice but I imagine that's what the grated fence is for in the future) into Atlantic Station. If the Met Center continues with their development at Spring & 17th, tons of employees will be trekking that "ugly bridge" DAILY to have lunch in AS and maybe grab a dress or top to go out after work in AS. Also, I imagine all of the condos planned for that N. Midtown area will house at least a handful of Wachovia, Dillards, & whatever else that may fill those gigantic and welcoming holes.

I don't know of anybody "trekking" (and that is the right word) over that bridge to have lunch. it's a hike and then you are greeted by office buildings.

all the condos are below 14th street. nobody is making that walk.

it's half a mile from the east end of that bridge to the Tin Drum at AS.

AS is for cars.

[foxmccleod]

Originally Posted by ATLaffinity

I don't know of anybody "trekking" (and that is the right word) over that bridge to have lunch. it's a hike and then you are greeted by office buildings.

all the condos are below 14th street. nobody is making that walk.

it's half a mile from the east end of that bridge to the Tin Drum at AS.

AS is for cars.

People from my office (Peachtree and 17th) regularly walk to Atlantic Station for lunch. The trip is slightly longer than walking to Colony Square, but not significantly more so. I live over two miles from Atlantic Station, and I would say I drive there less than half the time. I walk from Arts Center quite often. Based on the crowds I have experienced leaving MARTA for AS to see a movie on weekend nights, I am not the sole walker. Sure, plenty of people drive, but many others walk.

[delarosa]

Originally Posted by foxmccleod

People from my office (Peachtree and 17th) regularly...Based on the crowds I have experienced leaving MARTA for AS to see a movie on weekend nights, I am not the sole walker.

I don't think anyone is doubting that there is some ped activity. I've personally never seen more than a small handful of people on that bridge.

I've been searching for a bit, but can't find any quantitative measures of ped traffic on the bridge...maybe DOT or some others have them. Would be interesting to see. But given a lack of some engineering/transport data, maybe yours could serve as an ad hoc model.

For example, how many people in your office? What percentage would you say go on any given day? How long does the average person in your office have for lunch? How long does that AS lunch trip take? Socio-economic considerations aside, perhaps this would make for a crude estimate for 5-10 year lunchtime foot traffic.

Of course, if there are any ARC or DOT types lurking out there, maybe they've got some more reliable figures.

[Terminus]

Originally Posted by foxmccleod

People from my office (Peachtree and 17th) regularly walk to Atlantic Station for lunch. The trip is slightly longer than walking to Colony Square, but not significantly more so. I live over two miles from Atlantic Station, and I would say I drive there less than half the time. I walk from Arts Center quite often. Based on the crowds I have experienced leaving MARTA for AS to see a movie on weekend nights, I am not the sole walker. Sure, plenty of people drive, but many others walk.

My office is in that area too and I walk over to AS a couple of times per month for lunch. More often, though, when I do go to AS I walk over after work when I have more time - especially now that it's hot out and I don't want to come back to the office all sticky.

[ls1z28chris]

I just made that walk today in order to take some photos of Atlantic Station (keep your eye on the photo forum). I saw maybe one or two dozen walk across that bridge over the course of an extended period of time. Most folks appear to take a shuttle. Anyone know where that shuttle runs? It didn't look like a MARTA bus, it looked like the type of shuttle you'd find at a hotel excepted marked as an "Atlantic Station Shuttle."

[gttx]

Originally Posted by ls1z28chris

I just made that walk today in order to take some photos of Atlantic Station (keep your eye on the photo forum). I saw maybe one or two dozen walk across that bridge over the course of an extended period of time. Most folks appear to take a shuttle. Anyone know where that shuttle runs? It didn't look like a MARTA bus, it looked like the type of shuttle you'd find at a hotel excepted marked as an "Atlantic Station Shuttle."

It runs between the Arts Center MARTA station and Atlantic Station. If I remember correctly, you can catch it on that road behind the High, towards West Peachtree.

[ls1z28chris]

Originally Posted by gttx

It runs between the Arts Center MARTA station and Atlantic Station. If I remember correctly, you can catch it on that road behind the High, towards West Peachtree.

Do you need a pass or have to pay to ride?

I ask because that thing seemed to always be packed out. It looks like most people would rather ride that shuttle than make that walk.

[Terminus]

Originally Posted by Snakebit

Does anyone know what construction or renovation is going on at Walton Street downtown by the federal court? ... seems like something major.

It's a one story lobby for the new courthouse annex. Nothing fancy - just a brick building matching the historic one next door. It's better than the parking lot that was there.

[ls1z28chris]

I've never really paid much attention to the 17th St bridge, but all the talk here convinced me to pay it a visit and snap some shots. Hopefully people will gain a better perspective on what has been discussed regarding this bridge.

[cybele]

I love walking and have crossed that bridge several times. However, it still seems daunting to me, although I can't say exactly why. Maybe it's all the cars zooming by underneath and on the approaches. I'd go across for something important but not to grab a sandwich.

[kamden99]

Economy slows big plans for Peachtree Street shopping district

The plan called for a sophisticated shopping boulevard, complete with 35-foot-tall storefronts like New York’s Madison Avenue or Chicago’s Magnificent Mile, to gussy up the threadbare belle of Atlanta — Peachtree Street.

Envisioned more than a decade ago by the business group Midtown Alliance and named the Midtown Mile, the proposal was to create a high-end district stretching along Atlanta’s most famous street, running from the proud lady on the south, the Fox Theatre, to the artsy doyenne on the north, the High Museum.

But 10 years later, the district still isn’t ready for its debutante ball.

Retailers — stricken by a deep recession and cash-strapped consumers — have scattered. A mammoth complex along the route, called 12th & Midtown and announced three years ago, is still courting anchor retail tenants.

[ATLaffinity]

Originally Posted by kamden99

Economy slows big plans for Peachtree Street shopping district

^ at least they mention a "national grocer" at 12th & Midtown and you'd think that would have to be Whole Foods. I can't see a Loews hotel next to a Kroger...

[foxmccleod]

Originally Posted by ls1z28chris

Do you need a pass or have to pay to ride?

I ask because that thing seemed to always be packed out. It looks like most people would rather ride that shuttle than make that walk.

It is free and paid for by Atlantic Station. It stops in several locations.

[cybele]

Originally Posted by ATLaffinity

^ at least they mention a "national grocer" at 12th & Midtown and you'd think that would have to be Whole Foods. I can't see a Loews hotel next to a Kroger...

What's wrong with Kroger? I'd hate to think Midtown views itself as too hoity-toity for a grocery store that Atlanta's other upscale neighborhoods consider their bread and butter.

[sevensixtwo]

Think where you normally see Kroger (Piedmont and North, Howell Mill and 75). Now imagine where you see Publix (Plaza Midtown, Howell Mill and Collier). Its a little nicer right? What upscale neighborhood prefers Kroger? You can practically differentiate between upscale neighborhoods and others by whether Publix or Kroger dominates. If a Kroger opens up on the Mile I think it will be officially ok to call the dream a failure. The grocers really do have different business models.