Millennium Line - Broadway Extension: Planning & Pre-Construction

[mrjauk]

Wow, just wow! Chlldish does not even begin to describe the level of immaturity of that post. But I think that I now maybe understand the source of his (her?) animus towards a skytrain along Broadway.

Yes, twosystem, you're correct; the only riders who will ever use the system are UBC students. I'll never use it to go from Yaletown to check out the fine restaurants in the Kits area of Broadway. Now, if I'd like to go to a restaurant in the Broadway/Arbutus area after 7:00 pm, I'll drive. In the future, I would hope to do so by taking a relatively quick skytrain ride: Yaletown station to Cambie/Broadway in 3 minutes, then about 6-8 minutes from Cambie to Arbutus. Yep, sure seems like the Broadway merchants will have a lot to fear when a skytrain is eventually built.

As for the 10% drop in business he predicts if a skytrain were built, I'd love to see the research on that.

Originally Posted by DKaz

I posted a comment that has not be accepted by the moderator Dictator Zweisystem lol.



And a few little tidbits from him:



Skytrain will have all the existing 99 B-Line stops + Arbutus and Finning. What is he talking about non stop end to end?

Students live off-campus being living on-campus is expensive, as if students aren't already burdened enough with debt.

Construction mess -- because LRT will be minimally disruptive compared to a bored Skytrain tunnel.

Increased crime -- because LRT will not transport criminals

Wow! I quit. Haha.

[fever]

Wow. This guy's creative. That straw man is incredible. I'd have never thought of that myself.

[biketrouble]

Was that posted by zwei or "David"? On his site that comment is from "David", yet here it is ascribed to Zwei. WTF?

I have to confess, I found that comment pretty funny. Because I have to say it had occurred to me to make the same connection between the attachment many of you have to a high-speed journey to UBC, and the likelihood that many of you are students.

And you know what, inquiring minds want to know... how many of you are UBC students living off campus?

Also, DKaz/Donald, I think you are missing his point about the 99S. What he is saying is that if the a lot of the current users on the 99 were making the journey all the way from Commercial to UBC, then the 99S would have been a lot more popular. This is a reasonable point to make when the key success metric you guys seem to be considering is "how long does it take to get from Commercial to UBC?" Not once have I seen anyone here consider any other journey time on the route, despite stats showing that the peak ridership on the 99 is between Main & Granville.

This kind of brings me back to where I came in, with the transfer argument...

[Dave2]

IIRC the problem with the "99S" was people boarding it at Commercial Drive not realizing it was non-stop, and screaming to be let off... and if it *wasn't* full, it would pass by B-Line stops without stopping, pissing off those people too.

[Metro-One]

Again about the transfer, how many times do we have to explain this? For those traveling from North Burnaby, Port Moody, Coquitlem etc... having LRT means an extra transfer. Also, even if one is coming from the Expo line a skytrain to skytrain transfer would be much faster since skytrain would be much more frequent than LRT would be on this route (especially since you would have a train going from Coquitlem to UBC, such a large line would likely have frequent trains).

And for the record, i am not a UBC student, in fact i only go to UBC a few times a year, but when i do i want to get there fast. The same thing for Broadway, if skytrain ran along broadway i would go there much more often, simply because it is slow and annoying to do so. Also it only makes sense for the M line to meet with the C line. I am sure plenty of people coming from the north east of the metro area would find it quite ridiculous to have such an unnecessary transfer from skytrain (M line) to LRT (for a few km) and then back to skytrain (C-Line).

We use the travel time figure to UBC because that is the end of the line, and that is generally how you measure travel time (from one end to the other) when planning such infrastructure. There will be plenty of stops along Broadway that will really open that entire area up to the GVRD and reverse. As i said before, when i need to go to my camera supplies store on Broadway i need to get there fast, and a 1 transfer metro ride (from Metrotown) sure would make me leave my car at home, but i am not going to leave my car at home if i am going to be waiting 10 minutes for a train that will be traveling at only 50km an hour with stops every 200 meters! If we have underground skytrain, then we have transit for the people who need speed, this will clear up the local trolly buses for block to block use on Broadway. In my opinion skytrain stations are close enough for me to walk anywhere in between them, i guess some people are just lazy.

[deasine]

To be honest, most of us on the forums aren't UBC students. Simply associating us to a group of people like how zwei and other LRT supporters believe we represent TransLink and/or BC Liberals is irresponsible.

[biketrouble]

"in fact i only go to UBC a few times a year, but when i do i want to get there fast"

Oh, in that case I'll just get out my chequebook. BTW, is there anything else you'd like while we're at it? Taxpayer subsidized cocaine and strippers perhaps?

[deasine]

Originally Posted by biketrouble

"in fact i only go to UBC a few times a year, but when i do i want to get there fast"

Oh, in that case I'll just get out my chequebook. BTW, is there anything else you'd like while we're at it? Taxpayer subsidized cocaine and strippers perhaps?

What's the problem with that? Everyone wants to go to places quickly.

[Spork]

Originally Posted by biketrouble

"in fact i only go to UBC a few times a year, but when i do i want to get there fast"

Oh, in that case I'll just get out my chequebook. BTW, is there anything else you'd like while we're at it? Taxpayer subsidized cocaine and strippers perhaps?

Well in that case, we should have everybody walk to UBC. Capacity would be much greater as all you would need to do is take out two lanes of Broadway for the increased number of people walking. LRT is far to expensive when we can just block off a couple of lanes!

[Spork]

Originally Posted by kylemacmac

Just throwing this into the mix, and I know it's more of a transit fantasy type thing, but once Skytrain gets built along B'way to UBC then what next? Something to think about: I believe a high capacity and fast metro/skytrain line down Hastings from Renfrew-ish to Georgia, continuing down Georgia to Denman, down Denman to Davie, down Davie, and then across False creek to meet up with the Millenium UBC line near Burrard/Arbutus would help tie East and West together better, give people further out better access to Stanley Park/beaches, and provide the super-high-density West End with an immediate and meaningful transit option. The density of these areas could easily support this, and the overall downtown transit flow would increase immensely with more stations and more routes downtown.

Anyhow, that's just my rambling/dreaming, and it'd probably cost way too much, but whatever. Keep up the good work fellas. Seriously, Vancouver needs more positive outlookers willing to sift through the BS and help let people see the common sense that comes with thinking down the road...er, rails.

I've wondered about an extension from Brentwood along Douglas and then Hastings to Downtown for awhile now. This would relieve pressure off of transfers at Broadway to Downtown as well as service the inevitable increasingly dense Hastings corridor. Of course, this is probably 30-50 years off.

[dubsH]

Transit is subsidized. If we're using your logic, biketrouble, we shouldn't even be paying for it at all. Why pay for transit when it only benefits those who use them, right?

I'm a UBC student living on campus. Sorry, not everyone can live on campus. There are roughly 8000-10000 (approximate number) of on-campus University housing. There are over 40000 students. Where do you suppose the other 30000 students live? Under a rock?

Why would anyone want a glorified streetcar on Broadway? What is its purpose? If we want block-to-block service (which some faux-experts seem to really advocate for some reason), we have the 9. If we want end-to-end destination service, we have the 99B. Where is the current demand for transit service coming from, and what are their intended destinations?

What's the point of having LRT? Because some "experts" claim that it somehow serves the Broadway corridor better? Of course, the 9 isn't good enough for local shuttle along Broadway. Oh, in that case I'll just get out my checkbook.

[Metro-One]

Oh, in that case I'll just get out my chequebook. BTW, is there anything else you'd like while we're at it? Taxpayer subsidized cocaine and strippers perhaps?

Wow, thank you! The point is unlike you suspect we are all not UBC students, we simply understand what will benefit the masses Also the point was a skytrain to that area will attract more of my business. Honestly, what is your problem. If i was a student you would accuse me of only thinking about my needs, and when i say that i am not you do the same. It seems your mind is set. My point is i would use it rarely but i still understand it importance.

You are more than welcome to post counter points on this thread but you are now making it personal. If you don't have anything intelligent to say please don't post on this thread.

[biketrouble]

I see. So if I suggest that the fact that someone has personal desires does not imply that they have the right to have the taxpayer subsidize them, that means I am saying that no-one should have anything subsidized, ever. Give me a break.

When the collective taxpayer subsidizes something, that is because we as a society have agreed that subsidizing it has a benefit that is worth the cost.

If a lot of people need to make a particular journey a lot of the time, then the cost of building transit may be worth the benefit of not having them in their cars polluting the atmosphere and clogging up the streets, and the cost may also be less than the cost to the economy of people not being able to make the trip at all. Subsidizing infrequent journeys made by only a few... not so much.

Is this really that hard to understand?

BTW: Metro-one - I apologize if I jumped on you for the wrong reason. If as you say you were just trying to express that you understood it's importance, well, point taken. I just wanted to make the point that everyone's personal desires need not be taken into account. In addition, I was hoping to get a laugh.

Cheers

[NetMapel]

I don't go to UBC as well. I just recognize that a skytrain system is a better solution to the congestion problem on Broadway. I think, our point in this matter is, if we're going to build a rail line ANYWHERE in lower mainland, the most efficient and logical rail technology should be used.

[WaxItYourself]

You know there are other things at UBC besides the classes right? For instance the Museum of Anthropology.

[giallo]

And Wreck Beach!!!

[NetMapel]

Originally Posted by giallo

And Wreck Beach!!!

To see a bunch of ugly naked old people ? NO THANKS

[Alex Mackinnon]

@ Davids comment

When you look at the ridership an undeniably large portion does come from UBC though and a lot do either get off at Granville (currently, soon to be Cambie) and Commercial to make other connections. It's a pretty obvious demographic shift when you're on the bus. It's not really debated.

Frankly I would say you're an idiot the comment about living on campus, but since it was mentioned as a seemingly sarcastic aside I'll forgive you, but debunk it anyway because the best kind of dead horses are always thoroughly kicked.

It's considerably more expensive than living off campus (to the point where you could almost afford a car otherwise) and the current student housing on campus is consistently maxed out at about 9000 people. Now UBC has about a billion in it's endowment. It physically couldn't afford to put all it's students on campus even if it wanted to (which is honestly does, or atleast a large portion). Once all the parkland and academic portions of campus are taken out of the land pool you'd be looking at downtown like density in order to house than many people.

For the most part UBC hasn't really benefited from any infrastructure updates in a long time, especially ones that were paid for on the government's buck. Now if you look at your beloved Langley just how much of the infrastructure around there is recently built? How much of it was covered by someone other than the municipality of Langley? I'd beg to differ that your life style has been subsidized quite a bit by people not living in your portion of the lower mainland as well. You can also sleep well at night knowing that pretty much anyone at UBC who is advocating for this project will undoubtedly be long gone before ground breaks on this project, let alone stand to directly benefit from the decreased travel times.

While you can throw a tantrum about how cheap the u-pass is, you I feel like I should also be complaining just how high the per capita ridership costs are of people living in the suburban wastelands of the Fraser Valley. But in the end most of this project will not be paid out of transit fares nor carbon taxes, it will be out of general income tax and PST taken in by the provincial government. And while my income right now might be meagre compared someone who works full time during the entire year I can definitely say that myself and a good portion of the people I go to school with will be definitely be paying more than our fair share of these taxes in the future.

In conclusion, get bent.

[DKaz]

It not just the students of UBC, there are the people who work there to consider, both faculty and staff at one of the shops and services. I used to work part time at a sushi place in UBC and the 99 would be busy when I took the bus at 9pm on Saturday and Sunday. There are also non-student residents who live in the many houses, apartments, and condos at UBC. The residents at Sasamat would benefit as well, as well as the numerous businesses on Broadway. I worked at Arbutus and Broadway at one point and remember it all, three to four bus wait at Broadway Station and hoping not to get passed up at Granville. Passengers at Willow (Vancouver General Hospital - a SIGNIFICANT destination for thousands of people every day) and Cambie (Canada Line transfer point) get even less of a break.

When I worked at Brentwood, I had many projects at UBC as a consultant had frequent site visits and meetings at UBC, all using Millenium Line + #84. By having one seamless Skytrain ride, I estimate 40 minutes from door to door instead of 65 minutes. When I'm being paid by the hour, the 25 minutes is $30+ savings to the client. If they went with LRT, my trip would be 55 minutes, which is an additional $15 to the client vs. Skytrain.

Agreed with the comments that living on campus is nearly impossible for many of the students.

And zweisystem finally responded to my Calgary thing saying "Who cares about Calgary?" *sigh*

Originally Posted by biketrouble

Also, DKaz/Donald

He's not me and I'm not him and I'm not me and he's not him, therefore neither of us exist.

[Spork]

I think we need to take up a new name to represent our cause, playing off of the name that 'zweisystem' has given himself/herself. How about "dasrichtigesystem"? Implying that all that 'zweisystem' cares about is his/her own special interest.