Edmonton Construction 9 (2008-08)

[CMD UW]

Originally Posted by edmontonenthusiast

Toronto has yes, condominiums and lots of them. Lots of pedestrian activity and is really mixed use. Lots of neat stuff to do. It doesn't feel near as one use (office) as Calgary I suppose. But Toronto also has a large portion of the major banks, retail, insurance, electronic, and global offices (like TSX). It has lots of condo activity going on - i concur - but it is still home to major offices, which does make it MORE (not totally a) of a office city. Calgary is more an office city too but one could argue with the Eau Claire and East Village and nearby beltline it is a mix. One could argue Vancouver is a more office city in the CBD there, or whatever. But Calgary and Toronto are more of office cities, Toronto is more mixed use, but (IN MY OPINION) more of a office city, like Calgary. Edmonon seems to be taking route of Vancouver with a more residential downtown.

And I agree with bulliver, I read his posts, and he said nothing about just wanting office towers downtown feepa. I think we all agree it would be nice to have a few more office towers. I myself am more into mid rises but it'd be nice to have more than EPCOR Tower. Devonian, new ING? (Professional), etc. are mid rise not high rise.

Re drop in prices: surprised to see Saskatoon drop so much I thought it was boomin' over there. It seemed to be to an extent when i was theree .

The difference between Calgary and Toronto, while both having a major high density office component in their downtown, Toronto has more pockets of high density mixed-use residential buildings scattered within and adjacent to the core, from the Yonge Street corridor and so on.

Calgary has developed a primary office core with very little high density mixed-use residential buildings in between.

[Mercucio]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

"So how is Calgary's downtown like Toronto's? Edmonton could only wish to have a downtown like Toronto's. Make no mistake. It's something to aspire to. Any of our three biggest cities are worthy of emulation in terms of their cores."

concur in full although i am disappointed with concord's redevelopment thus far.

Agreed on Concord in Toronto. Not nearly the asthetic success Vancouver is. It's a much colder space with far more concrete and far less green space. However, it is less than half done at this point so time will tell if they get it right.

[CMD UW]

^ No, I believe the aesthetics are comparable to Vancouver, it is just the street integration and the uses along the street that 'sterilize' Concord Adex in Toronto. I agree, there is a lack of 'green space' in an overwhelming 'concrete' streetscape.

[Mercucio]

Originally Posted by CMD UW

^ No, I believe the aesthetics are comparable to Vancouver, it is just the street integration and the uses along the street that 'sterilize' Concord Adex in Toronto. I agree, there is a lack of 'green space' in an overwhelming 'concrete' streetscape.

Damn, I KNEW I'd spelled "aesthetics" wrong. I meant exactly what you're saying here. The lack of green space and overwhelming concrete streetscape are the aesthetics I'm referring to. The architecture of the buildings is very similar to Vancouver above street level.

[rapid_business]

The biggest problem is the perceptual separation caused by the rail lines and the Gardener Expressway. Both are poison for integrating these developments well.

If buying in TO, I'd be looking at King/Queen East and West well before anything south of the tracks for this very reason.


I see what EE was getting at though. Toronto, like Calgary and even Edmonton have a clearly separated CBD which is strictly office/retail and a 9-5 crowd. Although, with all of these examples, right outside of these office clusters, exist major residential nodes, and some much more then others (like Toronto).

[ue]

240: You're right, it is subjective and opinionated. My standards (and no I really dont expect many to have the same is) :

-5 storey and under - low rise
-5 - 20 storey - mid rise
-20 + storey - high rise
-40+ storey - skyscraper

CMD: I see where you're getting at and really I am just basing this on what I know but to be quite honest I've never been to toronto. but toronto has more an office core than vancouver.

^: yeah you're right, but what i find with calgary's downtown is the residential areas are more split off save eau claire. Edmonton's kind of mesh in togehter - like 104 street, mackay avenue area (100 ave, and 99 [mackay] avenue, heritage promenade), grandin, oliver, north edge, 109st, etc. most of those are within the official downtown. Calgary has a lump of business, then East village, downtown west, eau claire, and beltline nearby. Toronto's CBD seems more like that. The city seems more mixed use though than even Calgary but it definitely is more an office city than the other 2 major cities or any albertan cities for that matter. Calgary seems more intrigued to build up it's office market with big oil companies and lots of major canadian banks whereas edmonton seems to have accepted that it won't get the sheer amount as calgary and has resorted to residential and retail (and institution) ... similar to vancouver moreso.

Bulliver: Thanks for the picture updates man. GoOd phOtos!! .

[kcantor]

Originally Posted by CMD UW

The difference between Calgary and Toronto, while both having a major high density office component in their downtown, Toronto has more pockets of high density mixed-use residential buildings scattered within and adjacent to the core, from the Yonge Street corridor and so on.

Calgary has developed a primary office core with very little high density mixed-use residential buildings in between.

not sure this is the best post to "respond" to - or if perhaps a quick reply would be better served - but i will stick my neck out here just a little bit anyway...

if edmonton continues on the path it has embarked upon, it could well end up having the most "liveable" downtown core in the country. the relationship between the financial sector and the government sector and the proximity to the river valley and the removal of the hard edges once imposed by the cn and cp rail yards is pretty unique. edmonton has an opportunity to implement a vision first outlined in its 1997 capital city downtown plan (and has made a good start in doing exactly that) that will create a downtown core that is truly "24/7" and that has the both the right balance and the right integration of office, residential, institutional, retail, and entertainment uses and many of those undeveloped lots we decry so much will end up providing us with the "space" and the locations to do exactly that.

it won't happen "overnight" but to think we have to "follow" vancouver or calgary or toronto when in fact we have more potential in front of us to do it "right" than they have left to fix their mistakes is an edmonton trait we have to overcome if we are going to get to where we should be.

those cities - and many others - have done some wonderful things and some of them are worth implementing here but they are also offer many examples of things we would do well to avoid (some of which have been mentioned here) if we aren't going to fall into the trap of repeating many of the mistakes they made.

[ue]

^I agree. Edmonton is on the path to becoming a vibrant, mixed use city with a mixed use downtown that is "24/7" unlike Calgary where that will probably be left to the Beltline only. I look at Oliver and "West End" Van and see similarities and Oliver seems to be turning "somewhat" into West End for us.

Edmonton could very well be Canada's smaller vibrant city ... like Portland, Charleston, and Austin are to the United States. Calgary doesn't seem in that path. It has the Beltline, but the downtown won't have the mass of people that Montréal has or Edmonton will probably have.

[kcantor]

Originally Posted by edmontonenthusiast

^I agree. Edmonton is on the path to becoming a vibrant, mixed use city with a mixed use downtown that is "24/7" unlike Calgary where that will probably be left to the Beltline only. I look at Oliver and "West End" Van and see similarities and Oliver seems to be turning "somewhat" into West End for us.

Edmonton could very well be Canada's smaller vibrant city ... like Portland, Charleston, and Austin are to the United States. Calgary doesn't seem in that path. It has the Beltline, but the downtown won't have the mass of people that Montréal has or Edmonton will probably have.

careful about responding based on the "hype" and the marketing... i would take edmonton's downtown - even today - over portland's in a heartbeat. i haven't been to charleston so i can't comment first hand. i have been to austin and it has an awful lot in common with edmonton (or vice versa) including many of the same challenges and opportunities we have in front of us. one thing austin does have in its favour is that it doesn't have whyte avenue - it's music and club scene is better integrated into its downtown core although there are some very cool "outlying" clubs and theatre venues.

[ue]

^Whyte Avenue is one of the best things to happen in Edmonton's recent history. Yes downtown's are important, but usually if you look at the hip urban neighbourhoods in other cities it isn't the downtown first. Commercial Dr, Yonge, Pearl District, St Denis, International District, Nob Hill, Midtown Mile, Magnificent Mile, Rodeo, 17ave, 5th avenue, Old town (qué), Old Sactown, Chinatown (sf), etc.

Could you elaborate on why you wouldn't want Portland's downtown? Portland, Seattle, or Vancouver is something to look up to from my perspective. I haven't gone to PDX but am planning to in this summer, and have researched the city extensively and what I like is that it's got human scale and retained much of its (historic) built form. Compare that to the parking lots in the Warehouse District. Edmonton's downtown IMO is great because it is a blank palette, we can do whatever we want to. Turn it into Atlanta, New York, Boston, Vancouver, Toronto, Boise, Las Vegas, or St. Louis for all we know. Granted, it wouldnt be a carbon copy but rather a resemblance. Yes I've heard many times the similarity of Austin VS Edmonton. But Austin seems to get noticed more.

[CMD UW]

Originally Posted by cdnklc

not sure this is the best post to "respond" to - or if perhaps a quick reply would be better served - but i will stick my neck out here just a little bit anyway...

if edmonton continues on the path it has embarked upon, it could well end up having the most "liveable" downtown core in the country. the relationship between the financial sector and the government sector and the proximity to the river valley and the removal of the hard edges once imposed by the cn and cp rail yards is pretty unique. edmonton has an opportunity to implement a vision first outlined in its 1997 capital city downtown plan (and has made a good start in doing exactly that) that will create a downtown core that is truly "24/7" and that has the both the right balance and the right integration of office, residential, institutional, retail, and entertainment uses and many of those undeveloped lots we decry so much will end up providing us with the "space" and the locations to do exactly that.

it won't happen "overnight" but to think we have to "follow" vancouver or calgary or toronto when in fact we have more potential in front of us to do it "right" than they have left to fix their mistakes is an edmonton trait we have to overcome if we are going to get to where we should be.

those cities - and many others - have done some wonderful things and some of them are worth implementing here but they are also offer many examples of things we would do well to avoid (some of which have been mentioned here) if we aren't going to fall into the trap of repeating many of the mistakes they made.

I would have to agree with you on this.

[wco]

Icon II



Quest



Killer gate



Icon II



Professional Building



Mayfair

[ue]

The Quest - wow really rising.

The Professional - looking slick. Why must a Money Mart be beside it though .... ?

[wco]

I quite like the way Professional is turning out. That's just me.

[Kevin_foster]

Professional Building sure made serious progress this winter. Makes me think how we could retrofit some old buildings into quality/modern office space. With the current economic times.... perhaps some cash rich building owners can increase their future value by investing into their properties

[wco]

It's turning out pretty decent. Remember the post/link from Ian about recladding and such? I'm not suggesting this for everything, but there are certainly a number of older / poorly designed buildings that could use the tune-up.

[Coldrsx]

Originally Posted by wco

It's turning out pretty decent. Remember the post/link from Ian about recladding and such? I'm not suggesting this for everything, but there are certainly a number of older / poorly designed buildings that could use the tune-up.

www.reimagine.ca

[Coldrsx]

very interesting move.... good luck with urbia on 104
--------------------------------------------------

Condo builder sues buyers who backed out

Developer of Leduc units seeks $1.9 million

By Alexandra Zabjek, The Edmonton JournalMay 12, 2009



A real-estate developer is suing 24 would-be buyers for a total of $1.9-million after they backed out of a Leduc condominium development, which has lost value since it was first sold to buyers during the housing boom two years ago.

Urbia Homes Ltd. is suing buyers who walked away from sales for the diminished value of the units and other costs, claiming $75,000 in damages in most of the lawsuits.

Edmonton real-estate lawyers say they are seeing such cases with increasing frequency, two years after the housing market was sizzling and buyers were sometimes paying more than the listed price for homes that hadn't yet been built.

The buyers named in the Urbia lawsuits put down roughly $20,000 deposits in July and August 2007 for units in the West Haven Green development. Edmonton's real-estate market was just coming off a spectacular streak that saw condo prices increase 42 per cent in one year.

Investors in West Haven Green purchased their units for about $400,000 and the condos were finished this February. In its statements of claim, Urbia Homes says it will try to sell most units for $355,000.

As part of each claim, defendants are being asked to pay an anticipated $15,000 real-estate commission, condo fees, and utilities.

Don Kramer, a lawyer who represents condo corporations, said this type of lawsuit is fallout from a housing bubble 18 months ago.

"I think that companies are saying, 'I wouldn't have built this if you weren't prepared to buy it. You said you'd buy it. I built it. Here it is. Please pay me,' " Kramer said.

Real estate lawyers say similar cases have involved both speculators who were hoping to turn a quick profit by reselling their units, and first-time homebuyers whose homes are now worth less than they paid.

Some buyers in the West Haven Green project said Urbia Homes had not met its timelines on the project, or hadn't provided proper paper work for the sale of the units.

"Maybe I walked into this a little too fast, but they should have been looking after me," said one buyer. "I'm still interested in the place, but I want a fair deal."

In one statement of defence, a buyer disputes virtually every statement in Urbia's lawsuit.

A lawyer for Urbia Homes declined to comment on the case.

None of the statements of claim have been proven in court.

[email protected]
© Copyright (c) The Edmonton Journal

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/Business/Condo+builder+sues+buyers+backed/1587596/story.html

[S_B_Russell]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

very interesting move.... good luck with urbia on 104
--------------------------------------------------

Condo builder sues buyers who backed out

Developer of Leduc units seeks $1.9 million


http://www.edmontonjournal.com/Business/Condo+builder+sues+buyers+backed/1587596/story.html

Meh... no big surprise. These guys are hardly pros in the development biz.

[Shodan]

New project still on tap at Molson site
'Vibrant' plan hinges on historical review

Bill Mah
The Edmonton Journal

Tuesday, May 12, 2009


CREDIT: Greg Southam, The Journal
Molson's old red brick brewery is in the second phase of a two-part historical building review.

Nearly two years after the former Molson brewery bottled its last beer, the Oliver site remains shuttered.

But its eventual redevelopment is still brewing, behind the scenes, says an executive with the Vancouver-based company which plans to eventually develop the site as a mixed-use housing, retail, office and restaurant project with "vibrant architecture."

The old red brick brewery is in the second phase of a two-part historical building review examining the impact of any possible development, and the cost and viability of keeping as many of the historic buildings as possible, said Chris Vollan, vice-president of development for Anthem Properties.

The site, at 104th Avenue and 121st Street, is actually a collection of buildings including structures erected in 1913 and 1925.

"It's been a question with the historic review -- is it one building, two buildings, five buildings that the city and province would want to stay and that we work around in any redevelopment."

Anthem has proposed a list of buildings they want to focus on and keep economically.

"After that, it goes to the province and the city, and if they sign off on it then we know exactly which buildings we'll be keeping on the site and then we'll start the community outreach and planning process with the city."

Molson Canada and Anthem announced last October that Anthem would start preparing to redevelop the site. Molson closed the brewery in August 2007 after a strike, and cited a consumer shift to canned beer and the loss of a contract to brew Foster's beer.

"We need to know what we're working with before we can start really planning the site, and it's figuring out what the community and the city want," Vollan said.

Given the ongoing historic review, the yet-to-come city planning process and current residential and commercial market conditions, Vollan said it was hard to give a timeline for when construction would begin.

"We think it's a fantastic site for a mixed-use project. We've had a lot of interest in it, but it's getting people on the commercial side to commit to it going forward."

Meanwhile, a new home has not yet been found for Molson House, the fort-like meeting hall at the brewery site best-known for hosting hockey great Wayne Gretzky's trade announcement in 1988.

When the brewery closed, Molson offered the facility to community groups willing to move to the building. "We are still chatting to a couple of interested parties," said Molson spokesman Bryan Cox.

[email protected]
© The Edmonton Journal 2009

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