Millennium Line - Evergreen Extension | Completed

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by nname

If you look closely at the last photo, there is indeed a switch. The last pillar in the photo is directly below the upper deck while it is on the east side of lower deck. By switching side, there will only be 1 at-grade switchover at the west side of the station instead of 2.

I view that as just alligning the guideways on top of each other to follow the same curve through the turn. We don't know whether, when they come out of the curve on North Road, they switch sides or return to their original sides.

[STEELWHEELS]

Originally Posted by nname

If you look closely at the last photo, there is indeed a switch. The last pillar in the photo is directly below the upper deck while it is on the east side of lower deck. By switching side, there will only be 1 at-grade switchover at the west side of the station instead of 2.

Correct. An eastbound train approaching Lougheed, bound for Coquitlam Centre would cross onto the westbound track briefly, then switch onto the Coquiltam Centre platform of Lougheed Station. Then after leaving the station, would curve and rise, turning onto the North Road alignment, crossing over the westbound track right around the White Spot location,
thus restoring "right side of the road" orientation.

[GeeCee]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Ahhh the rules... what would we be without rules? Complete savages I'm sure.

Hey! Don't forget to cite that smiley!

[metroXpress]

Thanks for the pics of the models officerdweller!

The stacked configuration at the turn looks great!

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by STEELWHEELS

Correct. An eastbound train approaching Lougheed, bound for Coquitlam Centre would cross onto the westbound track briefly, then switch onto the Coquiltam Centre platform of Lougheed Station. Then after leaving the station, would curve and rise, turning onto the North Road alignment, crossing over the westbound track right around the White Spot location,
thus restoring "right side of the road" orientation.

What doesn't make sense to me is that they would go to the expense of a basketweave flyover for one movement
involving a bidirectional traffic on the 3rd platform when there are level crossings east of the station that allow use
of the existing centre platform and switching to access the Coquitlam line.

This was my guess at the possible train movements from a few years ago:



BTW - one key point to note is that during construction of Lougheed station an "X" switch east of the station
was replaced with two "Y" switches to perform the same movements. The original plan for an "X" switch provides
insight as to the planned movements.

[red-paladin]

Lougheed Station's switches and routing options are difficult for to understand, even with the the diagram. The only explanation that makes any sense to me is that they designed it so that all 6 of those options were possible so that what ever direction and frequency they run the trains in the future the station would not be a choke point. I don't know if I will believe any explanation until I'm standing on the platform. It would only make sense to use the centre platform to allow people to transfer from evergreen to millennium lines without having to go up and down the stairs. I thought that was the purpose of using a central platform in a transfer station.

This is in stark contrast to Columbia station, which has no options, although I know it was not designed to be a transfer station.

[officedweller]

Agreed - it would have been designed to allow for as many options as possible.

Note, however, that when the station was reoriented the logistics of a through route from Columbia to Coquitlam became more complex (and more unlikely if short headways are to be maintained). Lougheed Station was originally supposed to be oriented north-south next to the Lougheed Mall parkade to facilitate a through route from Columbia to Coquitlam (i.e. the wye would have faced to the south and the combined service leg would have been from Lougheed to Coquitlam), but the phasing of the M-Line would have meant that the station would have been on a "T" and trains would have had to enter and reverse to move through the station, so the station was built east-west and the wye faces east with the combined service leg being VCC-Lougheed. While that is probably more consistent with passenger volumes, it doesn't serve the Livable Region Strategic Plan as well, which specified a more convenient rapid transit connection from Coquitlam to Surrey.

[STEELWHEELS]

Image from Rapid Transit Project 2000

The unfinished north platform was always referred to as
the "Coquitlam platform". One would assume it would be
for trains bound for Port Moody/Coquitlam. At least this
was how the station layout was presented back around
1999.

[Whalleyboy]

i think that picture is the first thing i understand about the layout
gotta say it makes sense to have new west as the single one since it will likely only be a shuttle service

[metroXpress]

That is a great pic and it does explain clearly. Thanks!

[officedweller]

Cool, thanks.

I remember it being called the "Coquitlam Platform" (and from the diagram it won't have bidirectional service, it'll just be for Coquitlam-bound trains).
A basketweave makes sense then for the North Road turn since the eastbound platform is north of the westbound platform at Lougheed Station (which is a bit weird since it strays from the convention of driving on the right).
This configuration means that a Coquitlam to Columbia passenger would have a cross-platform transfer, but a Columbia to Coquitlam passenger would have to go down and back up to transfer. A Coquitlam passenger who got on a Columbia train would also have to go down and back up (but passengers would quickly learn to wait for the correct train after doing that once).

Another odd thing about this configuration is that Coquitlam-bound trains would level-cross to the Coquitlam Platform to the west of Lougheed Station. That means that Coquitlam-bound trains will level-cross in front of twice as many Vancouver-bound trains as compared to if it level-crossed east of Lougheed Station and the 3rd platform was designated the "Vancouver platform" (i.e. without a basketweave on the curve). In the latter scenario, the Coquitlam-bound trains would only level cross in front of Vancouver-bound trains from Columbia - not the ones from Coquitlam. In the pictured scenario, the Coquitlam-bound trains would level cross in front of Vancover-bound trains from both Columbia and from Coquitlam.

However, the pictured routing would work well for a Coquitlam<->Columbia service if it is treated as one stop on the route (i.e. by entering a platform and reversing out of it). For a Coquitlam<->Columbia service, trains from Coquitlam ordinarily entering the Vancouver platform would easily enter the Columbia platform and reverse out towards Columbia (this would not be possible without the basketweave which places the westbound track closer to the eastbound track to Columbia)). Likewise, a train from Columbia that would ordinarily enter the Vancouver platform would instead enter the Coquitlam platform and then reverse out to Coquitlam.

Anyways - they have a lot of options in terms of establishing the service pattern. When I get a chance I'll redo my diagram.

BTW - have you got any more info from the PMC project? If so, please scan and post. Thanks!

[STEELWHEELS]

There is no reason why the current BC Government cannot proceed
with getting bids from contractors to immediately start work on the
completion of the Coquiltam platform at Lougheed Station. The design
is complete. There is no need for any public consultation for this work,
and in this ecomonic climate, the jobs are badly needed.

[Jared]

It sounds like the train routing options we all saw back in December for the Evergreen as Douglas-VCC and Millenium as a Columbia-Lougheed shuttle are far from certain. Although this scenario requires the least number of trains, there sounds like there's an internal debate over whether those savings are worth the tradeoff in the form of declining ridership for having all those extra transfers (i.e. imagine if you live at New West station and go to SFU, you would go from 1 transfer to 3 to get to your destination).

The double-coordinated scenario may be studied further, from the sounds of it. Although it would nessecitate more trains, it reduces transfers, and provides service levels pretty much exactly as the capacity is predicted as being needed (whereas the current plan would be somewhat overcapacity in the Tri-cities).

[Whalleyboy]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Cool, thanks.

I remember it being called the "Coquitlam Platform" (and from the diagram it won't have bidirectional service, it'll just be for Coquitlam-bound trains).
A basketweave makes sense then for the North Road turn since the eastbound platform is north of the westbound platform at Lougheed Station (which is a bit weird since it strays from the convention of driving on the right).
This configuration means that a Coquitlam to Columbia passenger would have a cross-platform transfer, but a Columbia to Coquitlam passenger would have to go down and back up to transfer. A Coquitlam passenger who got on a Columbia train would also have to go down and back up (but passengers would quickly learn to wait for the correct train after doing that once).

Another odd thing about this configuration is that Coquitlam-bound trains would level-cross to the Coquitlam Platform to the west of Lougheed Station. That means that Coquitlam-bound trains will level-cross in front of twice as many Vancouver-bound trains as compared to if it level-crossed east of Lougheed Station and the 3rd platform was designated the "Vancouver platform" (i.e. without a basketweave on the curve). In the latter scenario, the Coquitlam-bound trains would only level cross in front of Vancouver-bound trains from Columbia - not the ones from Coquitlam. In the pictured scenario, the Coquitlam-bound trains would level cross in front of Vancover-bound trains from both Columbia and from Coquitlam.

However, the pictured routing would work well for a Coquitlam<->Columbia service if it is treated as one stop on the route (i.e. by entering a platform and reversing out of it). For a Coquitlam<->Columbia service, trains from Coquitlam ordinarily entering the Vancouver platform would easily enter the Columbia platform and reverse out towards Columbia (this would not be possible without the basketweave which places the westbound track closer to the eastbound track to Columbia)). Likewise, a train from Columbia that would ordinarily enter the Vancouver platform would instead enter the Coquitlam platform and then reverse out to Coquitlam.

Anyways - they have a lot of options in terms of establishing the service pattern. When I get a chance I'll redo my diagram.

BTW - have you got any more info from the PMC project? If so, please scan and post. Thanks!

thats was exactly what i was thinking

[Dave2]

Originally Posted by Jared

It sounds like the train routing options we all saw back in December for the Evergreen as Douglas-VCC and Millenium as a Columbia-Lougheed shuttle are far from certain. Although this scenario requires the least number of trains, there sounds like there's an internal debate over whether those savings are worth the tradeoff in the form of declining ridership for having all those extra transfers (i.e. imagine if you live at New West station and go to SFU, you would go from 1 transfer to 3 to get to your destination).

The double-coordinated scenario may be studied further, from the sounds of it. Although it would nessecitate more trains, it reduces transfers, and provides service levels pretty much exactly as the capacity is predicted as being needed (whereas the current plan would be somewhat overcapacity in the Tri-cities).

Cast my vote for the double co-ordinated option... Two transfers to travel from Production Way to Metrotown (unless one spends a zone upgrade to travel via Broadway/Commercial) is insane... Actually, any option that improves the M line from its current "Every 5 minutes with mostly 2 car MK-II trains" is fine with me.... this may be anecdotal, but I've noticed a large increase in crowding since I moved to North Burnaby in 2005.... on nice days like today I used to bask in the sunshine at the east end of the platform while waiting for the train... no longer, where there used to be 5 people waiting there are now 30 people waiting, and if it's a 2 car train then you're in for a sardine can ride to Commercial.. In the PM rush, pass-ups are not unknown, when UBC is in session some e/b trains arrive at Commercial with all seats already occupied.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by Whalleyboy

thats was exactly what i was thinking

The more I think about it - the more I think that that must be the reason for the basketweave on the turn up North Road. My guess is that one level crossing of a track is acceptable (west of the station), but two level crossings of a track to access a platform (one west of teh station and one east of the station) would wreak havoc with coordinating schedules - hence the basketweave to get the train from Coquitlam to the middle of the station on the east side of the station.

[STEELWHEELS]

i agree, that is probably the main reason for the basket weave (or guideway crossover).

[204]

Removed by request

[SpongeG]

so it looks like the white spot will be gone too

[GeeCee]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

so it looks like the white spot will be gone too

I doubt it.. they just renovated it a year or two ago, and if it was due to be razed for the evergreen line, I don't think they would have put all that money in.

As time goes on, I'm becoming increasingly doubtful that this project will even get off the drawing board.