PITTSBURGH | Three PNC Plaza | HEIGHT | 23 FLOORS

[qwho]

Originally Posted by PA Pride

The parking garage in the foreground is a disgrace.

... both of them....

Couldn't they make them a little more attractive?

[Austinlee]

Originally Posted by qwho

Couldn't they make them a little more attractive?

Yes! I think some dynamite would do the trick nicely.

[JackStraw]

Originally Posted by PA Pride

Yes! I think some dynamite would do the trick nicely.

I hate parking garages so badly. I remember posting on the pittsburgh rundown thread last year about the god awful ugly as hell building that is 12 stories of a parking deck, 2 stories of offices, and then residential towers. It looks like a demented tugboat from the 1950s communist USSR. I went in the garage last weekend to get photos of the three sisters, but didn't get a photo of the building because I was worried its sheer uglyness would break my camera.

[dugdogmaster]

I went back to the earlier posts on this thread and found this. I just want to say great job qwho, you were just about spot on.

Originally Posted by qwho

These two are the model, now with textures:


This is the back, which we have not seen yet, completely a guess:


Here is the view from PNC park, with the model in place, in google earth:


And here is my model in the picture that was posted a few pages back:


Find it in my collection in the 3D warehouse or here: Click

[qwho]

I've gotta modify it one of these days using the latest images as textures, and get the dimensions right... you can see I over estimated the width of the main portion and underestimated the width of the lower-left portion.


PS - Let's go PENS!

[dugdogmaster]

Does anyone have any recent twilight or night time photos, or could someone possibly get some during this beautiful upcoming weekend?

[Johnland]

Originally Posted by JackStraw

I hate parking garages so badly. I remember posting on the pittsburgh rundown thread last year about the god awful ugly as hell building that is 12 stories of a parking deck, 2 stories of offices, and then residential towers. It looks like a demented tugboat from the 1950s communist USSR. I went in the garage last weekend to get photos of the three sisters, but didn't get a photo of the building because I was worried its sheer uglyness would break my camera.

Yes, truly hideous structures, those garages. And to think they are essentially on riverfront land - wow! Hopefully when the market turns around (waaay around) there will a demand for higher use development there. 3 PNC is helping improve the neighborhood.

The pic that PA Pride posted of the original buildings torn down to make way for the garages makes me cringe to think there was actually a mindset that favored demolition of those old classics (which would've made perfect urban condo lofts as we now well know) over preservation/restoration.

[DBR96A]

Originally Posted by JackStraw

I hate parking garages so badly. I remember posting on the pittsburgh rundown thread last year about the god awful ugly as hell building that is 12 stories of a parking deck, 2 stories of offices, and then residential towers. It looks like a demented tugboat from the 1950s communist USSR. I went in the garage last weekend to get photos of the three sisters, but didn't get a photo of the building because I was worried its sheer uglyness would break my camera.

There has to be a sacrifice somewhere. I hear people complain about parking lots, and that's fine, but then parking garages are built, and it's still not good enough? Sorry, but as long as cars exist, there will need to be places to park them, and as long as downtown Pittsburgh is flanked by rivers, there will be a high water table that will make underground parking even more expensive to build than it already is. (And before anybody accuses me of being some "auto-centric suburbanite," I like planes, trains, boats and automobiles.)

[Austinlee]

Originally Posted by qwho

... both of them....

Couldn't they make them a little more attractive?

By the way, that's actually just one garage. Here is the overhead view from google satellite maps:

[Austinlee]

Originally Posted by DBR96A

There has to be a sacrifice somewhere. I hear people complain about parking lots, and that's fine, but then parking garages are built, and it's still not good enough? Sorry, but as long as cars exist, there will need to be places to park them, and as long as downtown Pittsburgh is flanked by rivers, there will be a high water table that will make underground parking even more expensive to build than it already is. (And before anybody accuses me of being some "auto-centric suburbanite," I like planes, trains, boats and automobiles.)

We know you like ample parking; That's why you live in Atlanta.

[Johnland]

Originally Posted by DBR96A

There has to be a sacrifice somewhere. I hear people complain about parking lots, and that's fine, but then parking garages are built, and it's still not good enough? Sorry, but as long as cars exist, there will need to be places to park them, and as long as downtown Pittsburgh is flanked by rivers, there will be a high water table that will make underground parking even more expensive to build than it already is. (And before anybody accuses me of being some "auto-centric suburbanite," I like planes, trains, boats and automobiles.)

You are addressing the reality of the situation, and your point is absolutely on target. As much as we may dislike parking garages for their negative urban appeal, they do address that ever-persistent question of where to park the damn car.

Here in Tampa, nothing gets built downtown without the obligatory ten-story parking garage podium base. Garages literally line the streets here and create a barren, desolate city scape at street level.

[Austinlee]

^Parking IS a legitimate concern. However, in Pittsburgh in addition to every major tower having it's own underground garage, we have the Pittsburgh parking authority which runs these lots (number of spaces included), not even counting surface lots:

Downtown
Grant St. Transportation Center Sept 2008 Red Garage A: 428
Blue Garage B: 563
Ft. Duquesne and Sixth Jul 1959: 920
Mellon Square Garage Jun 1955: 796
Smithfield Liberty Garage Jun 1965: 616
Ninth and Penn Nov 1958: 583
Third Avenue Garage Nov 1952: 579
Wood-Allies Garage June 1984: 541
Garage at Piatt Place (Oliver Garage) Oct 1998: 480
Monongahela Wharf Pre-1950: 700
First Avenue Garage & Station May 2001: 1243
Second Avenue Parking Plaza Oct 1997: 768

That's 8,217 spaces.

Garages literally line the streets here and create a barren, desolate city scape at street level.

That's weird. In most every garage in Pittsburgh they have 1st floor retail at street level.

For example, see this ugly garage on the right hand side? Notice all the stores and cafes on the 1st floor:

[rapid_business]

/\ Which is much better 'streetscape' planning.

The difference also comes down to parking requirements per sq. ft. or bedroom/unit size of condos. Southern-car loving cities have an affinity for requirements that would be laughed in numerous more northernly located cities. I'm not trying to pick a fight, I'm just being honest. Compare the numbers.

[qwho]

I also agree with you guys about the necessity of parking garages, that's why I said couldn't they make them more attractive in some way, like, make them look like regular buildings?



PS, I knew it was one big one... I park there pretty often when I find myself downtown. Also, that garage is a lot of fun to exit... you go down a really tight spiral all the way to the bottom....

[Arch City]

Nice looking building.

[Johnland]

Originally Posted by PA Pride;4212950
That's weird. In most every garage in Pittsburgh they have 1st floor retail at street level.

For example, see this ugly garage on the right hand side? Notice all the stores and cafes on the 1st floor:

[IMG

http://i531.photobucket.com/albums/dd360/pittsburghrules/downtown%20pittsburgh/DSC07016.jpg?t=1238559172[/IMG]

They are just starting to add retail to the 1st levels of garages here in Tampa. Eventually, it may pay off. For now, they are mostly empty, and there's not near the level of pedestrian traffic as there is in Pittsburgh.

In your photo above, you capture a great slice of Pittsburgh's Downtown. Yes, there is an ugly garage, but the density of buildings and their rich textures more than overpower any ugliness from the garage. Plus, as you point out, Downtown streets are lively and populated, and the 1st floor retail adds to colorful jumble that is urban life.

[Austinlee]

Originally Posted by Johnland

In your photo above, you capture a great slice of Pittsburgh's Downtown. Yes, there is an ugly garage, but the density of buildings and their rich textures more than overpower any ugliness from the garage. Plus, as you point out, Downtown streets are lively and populated, and the 1st floor retail adds to colorful jumble that is urban life.

Evergrey took that photo. All credit to him.

Originally Posted by qwho

PS, I knew it was one big one... I park there pretty often when I find myself downtown. Also, that garage is a lot of fun to exit... you go down a really tight spiral all the way to the bottom....

Ok. Didn't know you knew that. And it's even one that you park in often.

[qwho]

Originally Posted by PA Pride

Ok. Didn't know you knew that. And it's even one that you park in often.

Yeah if you look at the satellite picture and the difference between them as far as their river-facing facades, the two halves assuredly had to be two distinct parking garages at some point.

Anyhow, we seem to have gotten slightly off topic. I will try to segway back to 3 pnc... does it have underground parking like its neighbor (freemarkets/ariba/k&l gates center) ...who knows what to call it this week...

[JackStraw]

Originally Posted by DBR96A

There has to be a sacrifice somewhere. I hear people complain about parking lots, and that's fine, but then parking garages are built, and it's still not good enough? Sorry, but as long as cars exist, there will need to be places to park them, and as long as downtown Pittsburgh is flanked by rivers, there will be a high water table that will make underground parking even more expensive to build than it already is. (And before anybody accuses me of being some "auto-centric suburbanite," I like planes, trains, boats and automobiles.)

I was just ranting about my hatred for a very very very ugly building downtown. I wasn't trying to go all Smug urbanite on anybody and act like I don't use parking garages, even though I still don't like them. I realize that they exist for a reason. If you know the building I am talking about, then you would understand.

[Austinlee]

Originally Posted by qwho

Anyhow, we seem to have gotten slightly off topic. I will try to segway back to 3 pnc... does it have underground parking like its neighbor (freemarkets/ariba/k&l gates center) ...who knows what to call it this week...

According to the original news articles, it has 3 levels of underground parking. Not sure how many spaces that amounts to.