Edmonton Construction 9 (2008-08) - Page 225

240glt · #**4481** Posted **Apr 15, 2009, 7:56 PM**

EDC April 14 Agenda: http://www.edmonton.ca/city_government/documents/EDCApril14Agenda.pdf

FORMAL PRESENTATION

C.1. 16:15 Parkwood Tower - Rezoning Application #79698358-001
(LDA-0280)(HDR to DC2)
Brinsmead Kennedy Architecture - Fraser Brinsmead
9724 105 Street NW
Site legally described as:
Lots 101-103, Block 5, Plan NB

C.2. 17:15 NAIT's Souch Campus - Development Permit Application #84845804-001
The Workun Garrick Partnership Architecture and Interior Design Inc.
Dave Christie
7110 Gateway Boulevard NW
Site Legally Described as:
Lot 14A, Block 40, Plan 0521096

C.3. 18:30 The Raintree - Rezoning Application #77172882-001 (LDA08-0185)
(RMU to DC1) (LDA08-0185) Brinsmead Kennedy Architecture - Brad Kennedy 9704 - 106 Street NW, 9710 - 106 Street NW, 9712 - 106 Street NW,
9720 - 106 Street NW Site legally described as: Lot 103, 104, 105, 106, Block 6, Plan NB

C.4. 19:30 The Tango - Rezoning Application #75676627-001 (LDA08-0172)
Brinsmead Kennedy Architecture - Brad Kennedy
8224 Jasper Avenue NW; 8228 Jasper Avenue NW
Site legally described as:

UPCOMING

Whitemud Park Building - Development Permit Application #85402814-001
Hartwig Architecture Inc. - Junichi Hashimoto
City of Edmonton, Parks - Jim Black
Edmonton Design Committee
13204 - Fox Drive NW
Site Legally Described as:
Plan 9825678 Lot 2

North Central Recreation Centre and North Central Field house
Development Permit Application
City of Edmonton, Capital Construction - Carol Belanger, City Architect
11000 Stadium Road
Site Legally Described as:
Block OT, Plan 2191EO

St. John's Institute Addition & Renovation
Development Permit Application #84168076-001
Dub Architects Limited - Norman Kloever
11024 - 82 Avenue NW
Site Legally described as:
Lots 6 - 8, Block 157, Plan I19
Lot 6, Block 1, Plan RN61; Lot 7, Block 1, Plan RN61

Rocket252 · #**4482** Posted **Apr 15, 2009, 8:22 PM**

What are they planning for St. John's?

Coldrsx · #**4483** Posted **Apr 15, 2009, 8:49 PM**

real estate forum interesting so far but not much to report on yet.

Coldrsx · #**4484** Posted **Apr 16, 2009, 2:54 PM**

recap from the real estate forum:

apparently i was at a monetary policy event

dont expect many new concrete high rises for a while

Coldrsx · #**4485** Posted **Apr 16, 2009, 3:15 PM**

oh and the funniest thing from the real estate forum...

a panel of seasoned developers mentioning that maybe if they made their units smaller they could still make projects viable

*slow clapping*

turns around and walks out

240glt · #**4486** Posted **Apr 16, 2009, 3:23 PM**

Was there cheap booze at least ?

Coldrsx · #**4487** Posted **Apr 16, 2009, 3:28 PM**

^semi

Kevin_foster · #**4488** Posted **Apr 16, 2009, 3:31 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

a panel of seasoned developers mentioning that maybe if they made their units smaller they could still make projects viable

Wow. It's amazing this kind of foresight didn't surface when things actually were booming. Imagine, making a decent profit!!

I'm not even a developer, but I could have said the same thing. :/

Coldrsx · #**4489** Posted **Apr 16, 2009, 3:45 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin_foster

Wow. It's amazing this kind of foresight didn't surface when things actually were booming. Imagine, making a decent profit!!

I'm not even a developer, but I could have said the same thing. :/

i just dont understand the mediocrity of the pool of developers here... even the ones that have been around for a long time.

price and unit size have an inverse relationship for most product

yet it seems few recognize that or think our market would accept it

instead we build all 700-1400sqft units

only now are we seeing some decent new 500-600sqft places

240glt · #**4490** Posted **Apr 16, 2009, 3:54 PM**

People are still adverse to living in smaller spaces though, even though well planned small spaces can feel quite large.

A freind bought a 3 bedroom 1400 sf condo just recently out in Clareview. I asked him why he wanted to live way out there, & asside for the ease to get to work, it was becuase he could get a unit that size for the price he paid.

Needs a computer room, needs a room for a bowflex he never uses, needs 2 full bathrooms, needs a spare bedroom etc etc

All for 1 guy!

Coldrsx · #**4491** Posted **Apr 16, 2009, 4:13 PM**

^yup... hard to convince people what 'they really need'.

I am in 770sqft but easily could shed some things and be in 600

CanadianCentaur · #**4492** Posted **Apr 16, 2009, 4:15 PM**

1400 sq. ft for just one guy? Wow, that's quite a waste of living space.

I live in a condo that's only 614 sq. ft in size, and I'm happy with that.

Coldrsx · #**4493** Posted **Apr 16, 2009, 4:18 PM**

the one thing many people dont consider or forget about is that if you live downtown or centrally, your kitchen can be FAR smaller because you can eat out more, your backyard is the park across the street, and your living room is the coffee shop around the corner.

smaller units encourage more outside interaction.... a good thing

hilman · #**4494** Posted **Apr 16, 2009, 4:28 PM**

So what is your guys point? He wants more room, that's totally his decision. I have a big house, yard, etc and don't want to live downtown. That doesn't make me the bad guy or wrong because it differs from your opinion. You guys want to live in a small apartment, good for you, leave the rest of us to buy/live in what/where we want.

Coldrsx · #**4495** Posted **Apr 16, 2009, 4:33 PM**

^agreed in full, my point is that many people do not fully consider what they need and dont really know what they want when home buying.

i know more than a few friends who bought 1600-2200sqft houses in the burbs because 'thats what you do' and now somewhat regret it.

feepa · #**4496** Posted **Apr 16, 2009, 4:36 PM**

Any bets whether the mayfair still starts in April, as was proposed in January? The hotel still stands, and the parking lot remains a parking lot...no sign of activity yet...

tony0911 · #**4497** Posted **Apr 16, 2009, 4:37 PM**

Some people like to entertain and don't want to sit on top of each other, some people enjoy cooking and like having a gourmet kitchen with all the large appliances, some people have friends and family visiting often and don't want them sleeping on the sofa, some people work a lot from home and like having their work space separate from their living space, some people have pet's and like having more space......all of the above plus more and they would like to still live in the core.......0 options for them.

Coldrsx · #**4498** Posted **Apr 16, 2009, 4:39 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony0911

Some people like to entertain and don't want to sit on top of each other, some people enjoy cooking and like having a gourmet kitchen with all the large appliances, some people have friends and family visiting often and don't want them sleeping on the sofa, some people work a lot from home and like having their work space separate from their living space, some people have pet's and like having more space......all of the above plus more and they would like to still live in the core.......0 options for them.

Bull shit

there are plenty of options downtown that fit that bill

get out more

Coldrsx · #**4499** Posted **Apr 16, 2009, 4:41 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by feepa

Any bets whether the mayfair still starts in April, as was proposed in January? The hotel still stands, and the parking lot remains a parking lot...no sign of activity yet...

i suspect a bit delayed but i am still of the opinion this would be a very successful venture for Procura.

kcantor · #**4500** Posted **Apr 16, 2009, 4:45 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

i just dont understand the mediocrity of the pool of developers here... even the ones that have been around for a long time.

price and unit size have an inverse relationship for most product

yet it seems few recognize that or think our market would accept it

instead we build all 700-1400sqft units

only now are we seeing some decent new 500-600sqft places

price and unit size do not have direct inverse relationship...

if you have an 800 sf unit and 600 sf unit all of your plumbing and servicing and fixtures and "per unit" item costs are pretty much the same. so lets say one of those items (plumbing rough-in for example) cost you 1,000. for the 800 sf unit, that's 1.25 psf. for the 600 sf unit it's 1.67 psf (i.e. a third more). do this for everything from that plumbing roughin to the patio door to the suite entry to the heat pump and electrical panel...

and where are you going to make the unit smaller? if it's in width, you will have more units per floor but each one still needs a kitchen, bathroom, washer and dryer, living area and bedroom etc. so the layouts will have to include more interior space - and less exterior space - which still costs the same to provide on an overall but is "worth" less within the unit). alternatively, you could provide the same width and less depth which means a greater percentage of exterior skin per sf in those units but which will - on a psf basis - will make the units that much more expensive, not less.

at the end of the day you may be able to deliver those smaller units for a lower total cost but those savings will not be proportional to the reduction in area. that 150 sf "second bedroom" is probably the least expensive space that can be taken out of one of those units... the switch to progressively smaller units will take place as market and construction costs rise to much higher levels that than our market currently pays for. until then, there is still a decreasing benefit to the purchaser in terms of total cost vs cost per square foot in getting smaller than you can afford and are prepared to pay for.