Calgary Stoney Trail [Ring Road]

[Beltliner]

I owe you a pint if the subject of this discussion [warning: NSFW; 4'54" mark] isn't who tagged those bridges:

Originally Posted by Denis Leary

I am standin’ there, lookin’ at him; now he starts to talk to me, and this is how he talks to me:

“Yo man, wass up? Wass up, man?”

—and he’s white! He’s wavin’ gang signs at me—“Yo, wass up, man?”—and he’s frackin’ white! He’s talkin’ to me like he’s a card-carryin’ member of the Wu-Tang Clan…

“You know what? You’re not in the Wu-Tang Clan, okay? You’re not even in A Tribe Called Quest, you fundament! You’re in a 7-Eleven, you’re eighteen years old, you don’t know horse puckey about horse puckey, and PULL UP YOUR PANTS!”

Kstati the news on Stoney Trail SE and SW--good news for pulling industrial and long-haul traffic off Deerfoot Trail and 16 Avenue, but for anyone at Duh Ledge standing up for LRT capital funding, probably not so much. Let's just hope that whoever they end up hiring has the wits to make Stoney x 17 Ave SE LRT-ready, and to leave enough room to expand Stoney Trail into a collector-express alignment that would spike the mooted outer ring road once and for all.

[mersar]

Originally Posted by Beltliner

Let's just hope that whoever they end up hiring has the wits to make Stoney x 17 Ave SE LRT-ready

I suspect that we'll likely see nothing explicitly about the LRT there, and will likely end up with any potential alignment there in the distant future being done so it jogs south of the interchange (as there is that proposed mall that will be built on the north side of 17th between Stoney and 84th), the in the same style as the 17th Ave and Stoney SW is currently planned to have the LRT there cross Stoney north of that interchange.

[Beltliner]

CFCN reports (at the 6'38" mark) that the Tsuu T'ina are holding a presser this afternoon for their take on the status of the Stoney Trail SW leg.

UPPITY DATE: Confirmed on Mothercorp that the Tsuu T'ina want to talk about the situation this afternoon.

UPPITY DATE: Sandford Big Plume weighs in on SW Stoney Trail. According to The Fishwrap:

Originally Posted by Sandford Big Plume

In a statement released Monday, Tsuu T'ina Chief Sandford Big Plume said while a deal is indeed close, there is still some work remaining.

"I have further been advised (by the negotiating team) that while there are outstanding legal issues, those are relatively minor in the context of what has been a very complex and multi-jurisdictional negotiation," he said in the statement.

[lubicon]

Originally Posted by Beltliner

CFCN reports (at the 6'38" mark) that the Tsuu T'ina are holding a presser this afternoon for their take on the status of the Stoney Trail SW leg.

This could be interesting. I'll go out on a limb and predict the Tsuu T'ina people will be unhappy that the SE portion is going ahead first, and that they are more than willing to work with the province to get the SW portion built. I say too bad for them, they had their chance and now they'll just to wait (some more). If historical trends continue, next up will be the NE portion of AHD in Edmonton, and then finally the SW Stoney (as far as provincial funding goes). I'd say we're looking at 3-4 more years at the earliest before we see any firm dates for the SW portion, and another 3-4 years for opening.

Freeweed's prediction of 2015 might not be too far off the mark, unfortunately.

[Stang]

Originally Posted by lubicon

This could be interesting. I'll go out on a limb and predict the Tsuu T'ina people will be unhappy that the SE portion is going ahead first, and that they are more than willing to work with the province to get the SW portion built. I say too bad for them, they had their chance and now they'll just to wait (some more). If historical trends continue, next up will be the NE portion of AHD in Edmonton, and then finally the SW Stoney (as far as provincial funding goes). I'd say we're looking at 3-4 more years at the earliest before we see any firm dates for the SW portion, and another 3-4 years for opening.

Freeweed's prediction of 2015 might not be too far off the mark, unfortunately.

Or... this could be a strategy by the province to speed up negotiations with the Tsuu T'ina side and, at the very least, acquire the land for the SW portion. Probably not though.

I can imagine that negotiations with the Tsuu T'ina will be more difficult if the SW portion is the last piece of the puzzle. I'd say that would give them some leverage in their negotiations and it could end up costing the province more.

Of course, there could be benefits to the Tsuu T'ina nation (like developing around the new road, etc.) that might want them to get the deal done sooner rather than later. But I get the impression that they are content to wait as long as they can to get top dollar.

Obviously this is pure speculation. And once the press conference happens I'll probably look foolish!

[Skeletor]

Originally Posted by freeweed

Well, I don't actually know anything, so sarcasm. But every year we hear "discussions are happening and a decision will be made soon" and that's been going on for years and years now. So 2015 would not surprise me in the least.

Ah, ok. I was worried that they had actually said that, and I was like: . I could see 2015 completion, or even construction start in 2015, but to not return to negotiations until 2015? Absurd!! Seems that today's announcements cleared everything up! Now it's just more wait and see...

[03SVTcobra]

Originally Posted by mersar

Thanks for digging up the links.

Seems the radio had it wrong, it doesn't include the Macleod interchange in this part. This part will actually be bigger than the NE though, 25km and 29 bridges versus 23km and 23 bridges. More interchanges as well at 9. Got to love how they also tacked maintenance of part of Deerfoot onto it though.

29 bridges still to come? Or have some been completed?

[mersar]

Originally Posted by 03SVTcobra

29 bridges still to come? Or have some been completed?

To come. Of course any given interchange may have upwards of a half dozen or so bridges in it, so accounting for the 9 interchanges and 2 railway flyovers (which will be 2 bridges each) the number actually isn't that high. I don't think that number counts the existing bridge structures (Deerfoot @ 22X, 22X over Bow River), I'll have to dig out the maps when I get home and do a rough count (plus it may give an idea as to what level of completeness they are wanting to build initially)

[You Need A Thneed]

Originally Posted by mersar

To come. Of course any given interchange may have upwards of a half dozen or so bridges in it, so accounting for the 9 interchanges and 2 railway flyovers (which will be 2 bridges each) the number actually isn't that high. I don't think that number counts the existing bridge structures (Deerfoot @ 22X, 22X over Bow River), I'll have to dig out the maps when I get home and do a rough count (plus it may give an idea as to what level of completeness they are wanting to build initially)

What I can count from the Alberta Transportation website:

17th Ave
Peigan Trail
Over Railway tracks - 2 bridges
Glenmore Trail - 7 bridges
Over Irrigation Canal - 2 bridges
114th Ave
Over Railway tracks - 2 bridges
22x - 3 bridges
52nd Street
Deerfoot Trail - 7 new added to the 2 existing
mcKenzie Lake
Chaparral

That adds up to 29, so I'm assuming that's what it'll be.

Cranston will have even poorer access once everything is done, if nothing changes from the plans on the webpage. The current drawings make it impossible to get into Cranston directly if you are coming from the east on the 22x. Also, you can't get to Deerfoot southbound or 22x Eastbound from the McKenzie Lake/Cranston interchange.

Also, there are 2 separate ramps from Deerfoot Northbound to 22x Eastbound - though I suppose they are both required. The second little one allows people accessing Deerfoot northbound from 196th Ave to turn onto 22x eastbound, as the main exit comes off before the traffic from that interchange joins the flow.

[freeweed]

Not sure if I'm reading into this correctly (like always the media gives conflicting reports), but it appears as though the SW "agreement" is anything but - this is merely a proposal which will be forwarded to the band for voting THIS SUMMER. And it's already been 4 years since this latest round of talks started. Note that the band could vote "no" and we'd be back to square one.

Again, we're years away from start of construction. And with 2013 being used as timing for the SE portion... it'll be a minor miracle if they make 2015 for the SW.

[korzym]

Friends of the civilized world, my gift to you for the day. 16th ave NE and stoney trail:

All these pictures are looking eastbound













This is looking at what they've done to the ramps for the 16th ave bridge that goes over the train tracks

[hulkrogan]

The NIMBY's are out in full force in Rocky Ridge. I was stopped waiting to turn from Rocky Ridge Road onto Crowchild and had some lady with flyers approach my car (and every other one stopped) frantically yelling "Do you know this intersection is going to be closed and the traffic will put our children in danger?". I replied: "Do you not want the Stoney Trail and Crowchild interchange to be built? Or would you like the LRT extension cancelled? I doubt you'll complain with the increase in property values. Or should the city build a several million dollar special overpass just for you because you didn't research a road closure that was planned since 1998 before you bought your house".

People are brutal.

[lubicon]

Originally Posted by hulkrogan

The NIMBY's are out in full force in Rocky Ridge. I was stopped waiting to turn from Rocky Ridge Road onto Crowchild and had some lady with flyers approach my car (and every other one stopped) frantically yelling "Do you know this intersection is going to be closed and the traffic will put our children in danger?". I replied: "Do you not want the Stoney Trail and Crowchild interchange to be built? Or would you like the LRT extension cancelled? I doubt you'll complain with the increase in property values. Or should the city build a several million dollar special overpass just for you because you didn't research a road closure that was planned since 1998 before you bought your house".

People are brutal.

It seems like this is the fall back line of defence for pretty much any new project that is proposed. You see it all the time, or so it seems.

Tuscany has been screaming for a new middle school for years (it's not safe for the children to be bussed long distances in case you didn't know). Well now we're getting one and guess what, it will be dangerous for the children because traffic will increase around the school.

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by lubicon

Tuscany has been screaming for a new middle school for years (it's not safe for the children to be bussed long distances in case you didn't know). Well now we're getting one and guess what, it will be dangerous for the children because traffic will increase around the school.

Clearly the only solution is to eliminate the children. Then there will be no children at risk.

[lubicon]

hulkrogan, did you really that lady those questions, and if so what was her response?

[Beltliner]

Originally Posted by lubicon

hulkrogan, did you really that lady those questions, and if so what was her response?

Really now, Lubicon--you were expecting a printable answer from Mrs Johnson of Rocky Ridge to the guy's rhetorical questions?

Especially with the sort of drivel coming out of The Fishwrap on the subject?

[hulkrogan]

Originally Posted by lubicon

hulkrogan, did you really that lady those questions, and if so what was her response?

Yes, I really did ask her those questions, and she turned away immediately without saying anything and frantically scuttled off to the next vehicle. I wish I knew a cop I could get to sit there in the mornings and hand her jay walking tickets.

[hulkrogan]

Originally Posted by Beltliner

Really now, Lubicon--you were expecting a printable answer from Mrs Johnson of Rocky Ridge to the guy's rhetorical questions?

Especially with the sort of drivel coming out of The Fishwrap on the subject?

Does anyone know where to find contact information for people such as Lauree Phillps who is mentioned in that article? It may be her that was handing out those pamphlets. I'd love to ask people why they bought houses there without first taking a look at a development plan that has been in place since 1998.

My parents bought a house in the area in 2000 and knew all along that Rocky Ridge Road would close and there would be increased traffic on Rocky Ridge Boulevard near their house as cars would be forced that way to use 12 Mile Coulee Road.

I don't think they are two worried about all the neighbourhood children being killed and maimed by cars...

In fact, the children living near Rocky Ridge Road are now safer than ever. There will barely be any traffic to look for when they cross!

[Vascilli]

Originally Posted by hulkrogan

The NIMBY's are out in full force in Rocky Ridge. I was stopped waiting to turn from Rocky Ridge Road onto Crowchild and had some lady with flyers approach my car (and every other one stopped) frantically yelling "Do you know this intersection is going to be closed and the traffic will put our children in danger?". I replied: "Do you not want the Stoney Trail and Crowchild interchange to be built? Or would you like the LRT extension cancelled? I doubt you'll complain with the increase in property values. Or should the city build a several million dollar special overpass just for you because you didn't research a road closure that was planned since 1998 before you bought your house".

People are brutal.

Teach your kids to look both ways before crossing.

What was their response?

[canlefty]

Originally Posted by Vascilli

Teach your kids to look both ways before crossing.

What was their response?

Easy there now... that would mean parents would have to take responsibility instead of creating fear-mongering scapegoats to place blame.