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  #3501  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2009, 8:19 PM
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Originally Posted by hilman View Post
What is embarrassing is the website for the Alberta Enterprise Group has a photo of Calgary on its top banner lol, what a joke. They don't have ulterior motives and really want what is best for the City of Edmonton
I think they must have caught the error, it appears to be Edmonton now!

Edit: Oh wait, they have a bunch of banners that cycle through as you click around the site. I guess it does make sense in the 'Alberta' context.
     
     
  #3502  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2009, 8:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Coldrsx View Post
absolute BS... we voted to shut'er down, so DO THAT
No, the citizens of Edmonton voted to keep it open in its current state (general aviation) until 2051 by overwhelming margin, 76.8%.
     
     
  #3503  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2009, 8:28 PM
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To be fair Rocket252, that website does have dynamic banners on the homepage. There's one of the Edmonton Skyline, the Legislature and one of an oil derrick. Refresh the page to see them.

Most of their news headlines seems to be centred around Edmonton and they even state that they are an "advocacy group based out of Edmonton."

...not that makes a difference in the argument to close the muni.

The only reason I would like to see YXD remain open at this point is because I like hearing/seeing airplans flying over the city. Enough of a reason to keep it open? Not so much.
     
     
  #3504  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2009, 8:32 PM
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Originally Posted by kyle_olsen View Post
No, the citizens of Edmonton voted to keep it open in its current state (general aviation) until 2051 by overwhelming margin, 76.8%.
sorry, yes that is what i meant by "close it" ... as in let us not try to regain a municipal airport.
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  #3505  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2009, 8:36 PM
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I wish there was a way to redevelop the land that could maintain the history of the airfield, but not be a waste of the entire land.

Perhaps keep one runway in conjunction with an expanded aviation museum...?

If part of this land were turned into a marquee city attraction, and the rest of the land could be developed into whatever (NAIT expansion, dense housing, etc.) I'd be very happy. I'd be a little disappointed if all it was used for was residential.
     
     
  #3506  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2009, 8:40 PM
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Having lived in Toronto, I've always wondered why they were allowed to construct tall buildings so close to YTZ (their city centre/island airport). They have 300m tall buildings within 2km of it and the CN tower is about 1km away from it.

Is someone able to explain to me why Toronto was able to do this and Edmonton is not? You would think the overlay would be the same for both cities. I'm guessing it's either due to the orientation of the runways in relation to the buildings or due to politics/$$$.
     
     
  #3507  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2009, 8:45 PM
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It's the approaches. Just look at the two airfields on google maps. One has runways that run parallel to the buildings, the other has approaches that run directly over the buildings.
     
     
  #3508  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2009, 8:54 PM
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But as near as I can tell from google maps (I'm not sure of the accuracy of the scale, given altitude differences of the ground/camera), the approach to runway 30 in Edmonton passes within ~500m of Manulife Place and the approach to runway 24 at YTZ passes within ~500m of Toronto's CN tower.

Perhaps it's because you can fly airplanes through the buildings in Toronto and not crash into them...I saw my brother do it once on MS Flight Simulator X!
     
     
  #3509  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2009, 9:55 PM
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The runways approaches don't cross the downtown core as they do with YXD.
     
     
  #3510  
Old Posted Feb 24, 2009, 9:12 AM
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Originally Posted by dancinb View Post
But as near as I can tell from google maps (I'm not sure of the accuracy of the scale, given altitude differences of the ground/camera), the approach to runway 30 in Edmonton passes within ~500m of Manulife Place and the approach to runway 24 at YTZ passes within ~500m of Toronto's CN tower.
I used to fly out of that airport, and the approaches are generally over the Inner Harbour. In fact, one of the check points was abreast the Hearn stack, which stands conspicuously away from the downtown. Takeoffs from runway 33 were generally discouraged, particularly in the summer because of tall ships using the channel. Landings on 15 were also generally discouraged, unless the prevailing winds absolutely demanded it, and even then, only for small planes that don't need as much room to manoeuvre.

There are also major development restrictions in the area immediately north of the runway in the Bathurst area south of about Queen because of the runway.

Interestingly, Toronto mayor David Miller has been against the island airport, but there's little he can do about it.
     
     
  #3511  
Old Posted Feb 24, 2009, 1:27 PM
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From The Edmonton Sun

The man who once saved the Edmonton Oilers is now trying to rescue the city's municipal airport.

Cal Nichols, a former Oilers owner and current high-ranking member of the hockey team's executive, is part of a group of business heavy-weights - the Alberta Enterprise Group - vowing to mount an aggressive campaign to keep the inner-city airfield from being shut down.

Oilers players and officials would have to reduce appearances in some rural communities if the City Centre Airport was bulldozed, he said.

Nichols said because of tight schedules, it would be difficult to make it to some of those events if team representatives always had to use the International Airport south of the city.

"There's a fair bit of Oilers' use out of the (City Centre) airport," he said yesterday,

This isn't Nichols' first shot at saving something.

In 1996, he co-chaired the Friends of the Oilers ticket drive, which doubled the season ticket base to 13,000. He also spearheaded the bid to raise the $110 million required to purchase the team, which prevented the Oilers from moving to another city. Now he hopes to rescue the airport too.

Debate on the future of the airport has been rekindled over the past year with a city report concluding the land could be worth hundreds of millions of dollars if sold to developers.

In a letter yesterday to city councillors and Mayor Stephen Mandel, the Alberta Enterprise Group says it's "mobilizing a broad-based effort in the business community" to keep the facility open as a general service airport.

"You remove that and in a million years you would never get it back," argued Nichols, who also runs the Gasland Group of Companies.

"I believe it's a vital part of our connection to particularly northern communities, but even to those in other parts of the province that we have no regular connection with."

In its letter, the AEG says it has identified "more than 300 active airport users, including some of Canada's biggest employers and economic drivers, who strongly favour keeping the airport open."

There's been talk of converting the airfield into residential development.

But David MacLean, AEG's vice-president, said there's already plenty of available land in the downtown area.

He said making more available would flood the market and lower real-estate values.

"We're calling on businesses, individuals, taxpayers, to contact their city councillor and make their concerns known," MacLean said. "I believe there's a lot more support for keeping that airport open than people realize."

Coun. Jane Batty said she hasn't made up her mind on the City Centre Airport's future.

"We are getting both sides represented," she said.

"The Alberta Enterprise Group has come forward asking us to keep it open, but on the other hand we've received a number of e-mails from other organizations saying, 'Close it.' "

Coun. Tony Caterina, who's been pushing to expand service at the airport, said he expects there to be public consultation on the matter later this year.

The bulk of scheduled service was consolidated at the International Airport in the mid-1990s following a referendum.

There is some air service to northern communities from the City Centre Airport, but planes cannot carry more than 10 passengers.
     
     
  #3512  
Old Posted Feb 24, 2009, 1:30 PM
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Because of City Council's inability to make a decision regarding the Muni we will continue to have groups such as the one above spring up. And with Cal Nichol's influence it complicate matters.
     
     
  #3513  
Old Posted Feb 24, 2009, 4:23 PM
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Hopefully they resolve that issue soon as it continues to haunt the city...


On a sidenote the only reason Cal nichols is upset is because he doesnt like the ''oh so far to drive'' aspect of YEG.I have said it before and I will say it again...Its only 10 minutes for people living in south Edmonton...Cal uses small corporate jets to get around on his journeys.

Ryan Smyth and family who regularly travel to Edmonton to visit and check up on there buisness actually prefer to use YEG over YXD as its closer to where they stay on there voyages...

Go figure.

On a sidenote keep a eye a AeroMexico as they are applying for the right to operate scheduled services to Calgary, Edmonton, and Vancouver in their own right from MMUN, they currently operate to those cities on behalf of sunwing vacations.Looks like Mexicana could see some competition sooner than later.
     
     
  #3514  
Old Posted Feb 24, 2009, 6:28 PM
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Letter writing campaign to the Sun, we did it before to the Journal, lets do it again. The Nichols quotes are just too easy
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  #3515  
Old Posted Feb 24, 2009, 6:34 PM
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I'm wondering if the current economic crisis might end up being the final nail in the coffin for YXD.

YXD is really becoming a ball and chain for Edmonton.
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  #3516  
Old Posted Feb 24, 2009, 7:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Jasper and one o nin View Post
Letter writing campaign to the Sun, we did it before to the Journal, lets do it again. The Nichols quotes are just too easy
We should... it's been written in stone since the referendum.
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  #3517  
Old Posted Feb 24, 2009, 7:57 PM
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Sun will probably butcher my letter.
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"Hey, Lama, hey, how about a little something, you know, for the effort, you know." And he says, "Oh, uh, there won't be any money, but when you die, on your deathbed, you will receive total consciousness." So I got that goin' for me, which is nice. Carl Spackler, 1980
     
     
  #3518  
Old Posted Feb 24, 2009, 11:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Jasper and one o nin View Post
Letter writing campaign to the Sun, we did it before to the Journal, lets do it again. The Nichols quotes are just too easy

I did to the Edmonton Sun. Next up the Journal. After that all of the City Councillors. And then the nasty ones to to Katz and the Oilers for poking their noses into what is a Edmonton "Tax Payer" matter. Last I heard few if any Oiler Players own property in this City. Most rent and live elsewhere. With Katz buying a big home in Vancouver...who knows where he lives. I can only assume that Nichols is his mouthpiece. The lot of them are self serving.
     
     
  #3519  
Old Posted Feb 25, 2009, 12:29 AM
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^Katz just built a $25 million house in Edmonton.
     
     
  #3520  
Old Posted Feb 25, 2009, 11:14 AM
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Still flapping over the Muni


THE EDMONTON JOURNAL FEBRUARY 25, 2009 2:04 AM


Like an unkillable zombie lurching across our city -- moaning blood-curdling threats about the horrors of an extra 10 minutes in a taxi! -- the mouldy Muni debate is on the prowl again.

Next week, the city begins a process that could lead to redevelopment of the airport's 217 hectares. As a result, a group of businesses who benefit from the City Centre facility have written Edmonton councillors as if the idea were the Fifth Horseman of the Apocalypse. Even worse, one spokesman warns that the Edmonton Oilers could be slightly inconvenienced.

Once again, the vast majority of Edmontonians who never set foot on the Muni grounds are being asked to sacrifice a priceless opportunity to build and reshape a greener, more compact city for the convenience of politicians, owners of private aircraft and small numbers of travellers from northern communities -- a convenience, it should be noted, that nobody insists Calgary ought to provide by, say, expropriating 200 hectares along McLeod Trail in the city's southeast.

Once again, the issue of the risk to Albertans' lives is raised because of the potential relocation of air ambulance and medevac services, as if alternative arrangements could not be made with some of the estimated half-billion dollars that could fill the city's coffers over two or three decades by putting the land to more cost-effective use.

Once again, these arguments are made as if the merits of the Muni can be discussed in a vacuum, rather than placed on a scale to be balanced against the benefits -- the huge potential benefits -- the community as a whole could reap from a sensible redeployment of the property.

It is, of course, possible that the current economic downturn is not the right climate in which to contemplate redevelopment of the Muni. Current users would have every right to be upset if a service important to them were to be withdrawn, only to have the land sit empty, or be developed poorly or with too little profit to Edmontonians.

A final decision must not be made on the basis of vague, wistful ideas about LRT expansion, NAIT expansion and a hypothetical green community of 32,000. On the contrary, Edmontonians must be able to see in detail what they will get in return for the hit taken by the Muni minority. A decision must also await a detailed, fully transparent analysis of how medical services will be affected and how they will be provided in the future.

In a perfect world, debate over the airport would not be dominated by one group, however legitimate its interest is. It would be joined by equally active communities with other perspectives:

For example, what about travellers from the north who use the International Airport to transit to other destinations and don't want the viability of those flights undercut by expanded service to the City Centre?

And what about all the Edmontonians who spend an extra 10 minutes in their car each day -- because they must drive around the airport to reach suburbs unnecessarily far away?

Unfortunately, in the real world, city councillors must act on behalf of the silent majority, if the greater good for the longer term is to be their legacy. Let's hope that a year from now, we'll say that's what happened.

And who knows, if the Oilers have a few more minutes of quiet time to contemplate their play on their way to and from the International, closing the Muni could prove a positive for them as well.

© Copyright (c) The Edmonton Journal

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/Travel/Still+flapping+over+Muni/1327082/story.html
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