Edmonton Construction 9 (2008-08)

[240glt]

Random thought. I helped a good friend move into a new condo in Claireview a few weeks ago. Made sense to him, as he works in Ft. Sask, and also downtown (LRT) and was sick of the renting.

I've been up there several times now, including tonight. It's almost door to door on the LRT. I've noticed that there is always an incredible amount of pedestrian traffic in the area surrounding the station, but there's nowhere to go.

People are walking in the street, Hiking across the Superstore parking lot, basically following a line-of-sight type trajectory to wherever they're headed.

The access to the place is the most bizarre thing I've ever seen. You turn off 137 ave & drive into a semi-crowded big box store lot. You make a sharp left, then a sharp right (still in the parking lot) drive to the other side of the lot, turn onto a service road, then turn onto the road that runs by the station. I did this driving a 26' moving van.

The crazy thing is that there are people everywhere, walking. But they're just meandering across meridians and through parking lots to get to their various low rise condos.

I've realized what happens when developments are not planned well. Claireview is an example of a place that could have been immensely successful as a "walkable" community, as we say. Now, there's nothing. Thousands of people live in the area yet you can't walk from the LRT to a place to get a coffee or a newspaper. What a disaster.

[rapid_business]

/\ Yeah, it really caught my interest in terms of the TOD disaster it is. I'd like to learn why things developed into the mess they did, and what the city's original plan was that got so misguided.

[240glt]

For those of you that never get up into that neck of the woods

[newfangled]

I've been out there too, and yeah what a mess.

In that mass of parking lot the closest service is the movie theatre, which isn't particularly useful, and all those interior courtyards/parking lots complete with big curvy streets make it the land of cars. Right next to an LRT station, but it's basically indistinguishable from the MacEwan developments right off AHD. It's such a waste of potential.

The one good thing about the glacial pace of our LRT construction is that maybe eventually we'll figure out what LRT is actually for.

[GoMod]

I'm familiar with that area and agree it's horrible and somewhat...um depressing(?) It's the poster child of poor planning and suburbia gone wild - exemplary of the 'pod' style of planning where it's all divided into single use zones. The traffic and horrible interchanges compounds the problems. What a fracas!

[Coldrsx]

but there is a costco, superstore, and walmart all within spitting distance so it must be awesome

[GoMod]

^ya, it's an 'all-you-can-eat' hub in there.

[fortroad]

Originally Posted by onishenko

/\ Yeah, it really caught my interest in terms of the TOD disaster it is. I'd like to learn why things developed into the mess they did, and what the city's original plan was that got so misguided.

They did screw things up there, they just built it as a regular business common. Nowhere to walk at all, just get off the LRT and drive somewhere.

[Shodan]

Originally Posted by 240glt

For those of you that never get up into that neck of the woods

Thanks for the overhead pic of our condo! We've been living at Clareview Courts for about 4 years now (we ended up buying our suite when they converted to condos a couple of years ago) and we noticed the same issues with the neighborhood as well. Someone mentioned a while back that Clareview Campus was supposed to have coffee shops and stores centered around the LRT station as well as the condos, but that never materialized for some reason. I think there was supposed to be a big mall where the Superstore and Futureshop now stand. Could do without the mall, but the coffee shops would have been nice. Oh well...

[feepa]

this is what we some how ended up with...

http://www.edmonton.ca/city_government/d...Town%20Centre%20NASP%20Consolidation.pdf

and here shows images of the original vision. What happened to that vision? It died

http://www.edmonton.ca/city_government/documents/InfraPlan/Clareview%20OP%20Consolidation.pdf

[S_B_Russell]

Man, I would love a hit off the planner's bong they were smoking when they planned Clareview.

[rapid_business]

/\ not necessarily. What you see here is the amended version circa 2007, not the original. So the map and the NASP document adapted to what the developers advocated based on what they wanted to build.

[Coldrsx]

These articles are starting to become funny...

--------------------------------
'09 house prices to stabilize

Market expected to pick up in 2010, CMHC predicts

BY BILL MAH, THE EDMONTON JOURNALFEBRUARY 20, 2009 9:01 AMBE THE FIRST TO POST A COMMENT


Prices for resale homes in the Edmonton region will continue slipping in 2009, but the end to the slide is in sight, says a new Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation forecast.

Multiple Listing Service home prices for 2008 in the Edmonton census metropolitan area fell by 1.5 per cent to $332,853, said the CMHC's Prairies Housing Market Outlook released Thursday.

It said a buyers' market pushed prices downward on a month-over-month basis for much of the second half of 2008.

Sale prices will begin 2009 well below the overall average for the previous year, but with fewer listings expected in 2009, the market should become more balanced between buyers and sellers, the report said.

The federal agency predicts this will allow average residential resale prices to stabilize and then begin to increase month-over-month.

"Despite this turnaround, the 12-month average price in 2009 will fall by 5.4 per cent from 2008 to $315,000," said the report.

But that's where prices hit bottom, predicts the agency.

In 2010, it says, MLS prices will creep up steadily over the year with the annual average reaching $325,000 -- a gain of 3.2 per cent over 2009.

That prediction is based on a scenario where the economy begins to improve in 2010, said Richard Goatcher, CMHC senior market analyst for Edmonton.

"The economic outlook starts to brighten next year and that impacts buyer behaviour and we get back into more of a balanced market, which will give us some support for prices," Goatcher said.

"We've been in a buyers' market for quite an extended period and that's put downward pressure on prices.

"Soft prices right now are causing people to wait -- but at some point, they've got to say to themselves, 'will it get any better than it is right now?' because as the economy improves, mortgage rates go up."

Existing home sales on MLS fell 15 per cent year-over-year in 2008 to 17,371 units. That was the slowest year for realtors since 2003. The CMHC report predicts MLS sales to fall another eight per cent in 2009 to 16,000 units with a rebound to 17,000 in 2010 as the economy improves.

In its forecast released last month, the Realtors Association of Edmonton forecast predicted the average price for single-family homes is expected to vary throughout the year, but will end 2009 at $352,000 -- virtually identical to the $351,870 average selling price of December 2008. The forecast did not include a prediction for 2010. It predicted MLS sales in 2009 falling to 15,500 homes, down more than 1,800 units from last year's tally of 17,317.

"We're still on target," association president Charlie Ponde said Thursday. "The price may soften a bit depending on the inventory ... . As for sales, we are slightly up already in February from January sales and we have a good 10 days of market to go through."

"I think we might surpass January and we surpassed December in January so I think if we stay like that, it seems like things are stabilizing."

CMHC forecasts a similar pattern of falling average MLS prices in 2009 with recovery in 2010 for Alberta.

The Calgary region will see prices drop from $405,267 in 2008 to $380,000 in 2009 and rise to $390,000 in 2010.

Across Alberta, prices will slide from $352,856 to a forecasted $333,000 in 2009 and go up to $343,000 in 2010.

Meanwhile, the outlook also says a weaker economy and soft resale prices will keep housing starts low in 2009. Last year, single-detached starts fell by 66 per cent to 2,613 units -- the smallest number since 1995. CMHC expects single starts in 2009 to remain flat from last year. In 2010, tighter inventories in both new and resale markets will bump single starts to 3,200 units.

A busier resale market encourages homebuilders to increase their starts because many new house buyers trading up from existing homes will be more willing to put a deposit on a new place, Goatcher said.

Multiple-dwelling starts will also remain weak in 2009 due to rising inventories of condo apartments. Multi starts in 2009 will fall by 37 per cent to 2,500 units, CMHC predicted. There will be a moderate rebound in 2010 to near 3,000 units, it said.

In the rental market, the CMHC said apartment vacancies in greater Edmonton are rising despite low construction because condo apartments are being rented out by investors.

It predicts overall apartment vacancy to increase to 3.5 per cent by October, up from 2.4 per cent the same month in 2008. The rising vacancy rate will "help to temper rent increases in the coming year."

The average rent for a two-bedroom unit will reach $1,070 in October, up $36 year-over-year. By October 2010, a typical two-bedroom will rent for about $1,120, up $50 per month.

[email protected]

© Copyright (c) The Edmonton Journal

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/business/house+prices+stabilize/1309966/story.html

[240glt]

CMHC should be banned from making projections. They've been so far off in their assesments of the markets in Edmonton and Calgary it's almost comical.

[newfangled]

Random question:

Before the two High Street retail strips were constructed along 102ave, what was there?

The Original Joe's building has been around since the '20's, and same with the gas station on the corner (or at least a gas station). Plaza 124 used to be an apartment buidling.

Was that strip along the north side just houses?

[Coldrsx]

^not sure... likely houses?

The strip mall beside original joe's is one of those properties i would love to buy, tear down, and put 1 level of retail and 2 levels of condos on top.

[Shodan]

City-centre walkway proposed

By Gordon Kent, The Edmonton JournalFebruary 20, 2009 9:01 AM

Edmonton should close the road between City Hall and Churchill Square to create a year-round, pedestrian-friendly civic centre, Coun. Ben Henderson said Thursday.

"We have a kind of island that gets cut off in the winter time ... there's this barrier between these two spaces, both of which are public spaces," he said. "If we don't need that road open, why are we doing it to ourselves?"

Shutting 102A Avenue and 99th Street beside the square, as well as the intersection between them, would initially cost $190,000, plus an annual charge of $190,000 from lost parking meter revenue and increased maintenance, according to a new city report requested by Henderson. Another possibility is partially closing the intersection between the two roads, which would initially cost $170,000, then take $170,000 a year for lost revenues and higher costs, the report says. The move would require changes to several bus schedules, modifications to the Capital Ex parade route, and require up to seven months for public consultation and council approval, the report says.

But Henderson said the roads are already shut to traffic in the summer for various festivals in Churchill Square, so a permanent closure would make the area accessible in cold weather as well.

"It was part of the original thinking when we did Churchill Square ... in the long run, opening it and closing it with plastic barriers isn't the best solution," he said.

[email protected]

© Copyright (c) The Edmonton Journal

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/edmonton/City+centre+walkway+proposed/1309962/story.html

[240glt]

I like the idea of shutting the road between Churchill square and city hall but am perplexed why it would cost that much money.

[Coldrsx]

i don't see why 99st needs to be closed other than on specific days but i love the idea of closing 102a.

[IKAN104]

Originally Posted by newfangled

Random question:

Before the two High Street retail strips were constructed along 102ave, what was there?

The Original Joe's building has been around since the '20's, and same with the gas station on the corner (or at least a gas station). Plaza 124 used to be an apartment buidling.

Was that strip along the north side just houses?

Are you sure about that apartment building? I thought plaza 124 took the place of an old safeway which moved across the street and eventually became MEC.

There are some old photos of the area in the lobby of the building just north of plaza 124. I used to watch those while waiting for the bus.