Huntsville updates

[ThatGuy]

Originally Posted by neilson

There is a toll road in WEST VIRGINIA, the posterboy for all things Applachia poverty, and the toll road has existed for the past 40 years.

Maybe that is why West Virginia is still so poor... hahaha

To me, the problem with the southern bypass being a toll road is that the road isn't NEEDED, it would be nice to have but no real NEED.

Now, the city or state may think that putting in a new road to south Hville will spur new growth down there or across the river. If that is their desire then they city or state should pay for the road since they will recoup the cost in increased tax revenue from that growth.

[HSVTiger]

Originally Posted by ThatGuy

Maybe that is why West Virginia is still so poor... hahaha

To me, the problem with the southern bypass being a toll road is that the road isn't NEEDED, it would be nice to have but no real NEED.

Now, the city or state may think that putting in a new road to south Hville will spur new growth down there or across the river. If that is their desire then they city or state should pay for the road since they will recoup the cost in increased tax revenue from that growth.

Wow, 1950's thinking still exists

From Senator Shelby's office

Patriot Parkway (Southern Bypass) – $4.7 million

The Patriot Parkway will run 15 miles through Redstone Arsenal from I-565 to Memorial Parkway. The Parkway will provide a bypass for through travel around downtown Huntsville and improve overall access to Redstone Arsenal.

“As Redstone prepares for the nearly 10,000 jobs expected from the BRAC decisions, it is essential for the City of Huntsville to expand their infrastructure to meet the demands of their growing population,” said Senator Shelby. “An influx of daily commuters this large will greatly change the traffic patterns in the Huntsville area, and it is important that we make every effort in preparation to ease potential traffic issues in the area.”

and more from toll roads news from 2007
Alabama is moving to accelerate construction of a Southern Bypass around the Redstone Arsenal in Huntsville with tolls. URS has been selected to do a traffic and revenue study to assess the feasibility of the proposed tollroad.
Steve Dinges, director of long range planning at the Huntsville plan organization says the HSB Bypass is fully permitted and no longer faces significant opposition. The major environmental challenge was getting acceptance of the highway's handling of wetlands.

Nearly a third of its length or 7km (4 miles) go through swamps of the Tennessee River. They will be built on bridge structure to protect the wetland.

Traffic modeling suggests point-flows of up to 80k, so the road will all be at least 3+3 lanes with some segments 4+4 lanes.

The road serves:
- general east-west connectivity across the south of the region
- some north-south movement relieving US231 Memorial parkway
- improved access to Redstone Arsenal
- as a portion of future I-22 in planning Atlanta GA-Huntsvillle & Decatur AL- Memphis TN

Construction cost was estimated about two years back at $600m but may now be closer to $700m due to inflation. Land costs are small because so much is within Redstone Arsenal and is being donated. Overall project however seems likely to be in the $750m to $800m range, Dinges agrees.

The HSB bypass is about 90 lane-miles (146 lane-km) or $8.9m/lane-mile, $5.3m/lane-km based on $800m all-up cost.

Other priorities in the area are upgrade of US231 to full expressway standard by completing grade separations and frontage roads, and a northern bypass or belt route.

Population of the Madison Co AL (90% of the Huntsville area) is approximately 300k and projected to be 345k in 2015 and 372k in 2030. The Decatur area to the west is almost a twin city and in 2000 the Census MSAs of Huntsville and Decatur combined was 488k

The route of the future Memphis/Huntsville/Atlanta Expressway which will use the Southern Bypass

[HSVTiger]

Work may start on the long planned mega project at I-565 and Zierdt Rd
from WHNT TV

MADISON, ALABAMA - After more than a year on the backburner, things are moving once again on a mult-million dollar retail project in Madison. The intersection of Zierdt Road and Interstate 565 has been tagged for a future residential/retail shopping center.

Project overseers say it's a $300 million project that could bring an economic windfall to Madison, and tell Newschannel 19 that the first phase of construction is expected to begin later this year. Phase one calls for an upscale apartment and community complex.

Progress came to a half last year when talks broke down between the landowner, Louis Breland, and the previous Madison city administration. Breland attempted to annex his land into the city of Huntsville, but current Madison Mayor Paul Finley says past problems which delayed movement are no longer an issue.

"We are in constant communication with them, which is a big change from where we were before," said Finley. "It is probably the closest opportunity to support the BRAC increase, and these folks will then have an easy place for restaurants, shopping, and also possibly to live."

State highway officials are now reviewing two potential sites near the development for interstate access ramps in both directions. Project overseers remain mum on when construction on stores and shops will begin due to current economic conditions.

"We've met several times with Mayor Finley and several of the Madison officials," said development spokesman Steve Raby. "On the retail side of this, there needs to be more due diligence, and when the economy turns we'll be able to go forward."

Raby also tells Newschannel 19 that three major development groups are in talks about anchoring the Zierdt site. He would not disclose their names, but did say they're all some of the largest developers in the United States.

[ThatGuy]

Originally Posted by HSVTiger

The route of the future Memphis/Huntsville/Atlanta Expressway which will use the Southern Bypass

What a joke! They think they can build all that road, but don't have any money for the part through Huntsville? Unless the ENTIRE Memphis to Atlanta highway is toll road, the Patriot Parkway will just be a defacto tax on Huntsville residents.

[SpawnOfVulcan]

WOW, lots of good news!

[tdawg]

They've been talking about that Southern Bypass since I lived in Huntsville...in 1989.

[-=skywalker=-]

Originally Posted by HSVTiger

The route of the future Memphis/Huntsville/Atlanta Expressway which will use the Southern Bypass

Who planned this route, because by the looks of it the road slices through Guntersville State Park and Little River Canyon National Preserve. If that is indeed the case, I for one would be first in line to boycott the route.

[HSVTiger]

Originally Posted by -=skywalker=-

Who planned this route, because by the looks of it the road slices through Guntersville State Park and Little River Canyon National Preserve. If that is indeed the case, I for one would be first in line to boycott the route.

I wouldn't use that map as exact it can shift several miles in any direction, it will not disturb the parks. It will also not be I-22 since that designation is for
the Birmingham/ Memphis interstate. It could be I-28, I-30, I-32,34,36, or 38.
But seeing how it takes 10-15 years to build a simple overpass on the Parkway or none at all at Research Park Blvd and Jordan Lane this project will be for those that have not been
born. So we need to get what we can with or without tolls.

[David1502]

Originally Posted by HSVTiger

I wouldn't use that map as exact it can shift several miles in any direction, it will not disturb the parks. It will also not be I-22 since that designation is for
the Birmingham/ Memphis interstate. It could be I-28, I-30, I-32,34,36, or 38.
But seeing how it takes 10-15 years to build a simple overpass on the Parkway or none at all at Research Park Blvd and Jordan Lane this project will be for those that have not been
born. So we need to get what we can with or without tolls.

It is questionnable if the Memphis-Huntsville-Atlanta Highway (M-H-A-H)will have an interstate number because only Alabama has committed to building a controlled access highway. The state of Mississippi has no plans to upgrade the existing four lane US 72 to interstate standards and Georgia only plans to upgrade the existing state highway 20 to four lanes so it will connect with US 411 in Rome, which then connects to I-75 near Cartersville, GA. It is likely that a lot of the truck (and other)traffic would prefer the (M-H-A-H) route over I-22 as this route will avoid the heavy congestion around Birmingham and as I-22 connects with I-20 which comes into the Atlanta area south of a lot of the business and population centers of the north metro area. There had been talk in the past of extending the (M-H-A-H) to cut across the far north metro Atlanta suburbs, roughly following the route of GA highway 20 to I-85 on the northeast side of Atlanta. This additional portion, called the "Outer Perimeter", was to be controlled access (and there were discussions of making it a toll road) but has been shelved for now.
Again, big picture it will be a hundred years before this happens... However, if a toll road can build any portion, it will be appreciated.

[HSV79]

Well first off let me say that this isn't really doom and gloom but was pretty much expected due to the downturn in the economy. Toyota here in Huntsville is for the first time offering a Voluntary Exit Program or as others call it a "buyout". This will be offered to all team members and is only a offer to those who are wanting to accept it. Otherwise production will continue albeit a reduced work schedule of possibly only 72 hours a pay period and we (Toyota) are still in the best position to weather this storm.

[| BRAVO |]

1) It is clear ALDOT is not concerned with addressing existing congestion issues - otherwise I-65 through North Shelby County would be 8 lanes.

B) It is clear ALDOT is not concerned with future congestion issues- otherwise Huntsville would be seeing some action.

3) It is clear politics is the driving force behind ALDOT's plans - that would explain the 6 lanes currently under construction near the Honda plant in Podunk on I-20.

D) It is clear ALDOT is not concerned with mass transit in the least - anywhere.


I say let's take what we can get and ride on some toll roads.

[Rail Claimore]

Originally Posted by David1502

It is questionnable if the Memphis-Huntsville-Atlanta Highway (M-H-A-H)will have an interstate number because only Alabama has committed to building a controlled access highway. The state of Mississippi has no plans to upgrade the existing four lane US 72 to interstate standards and Georgia only plans to upgrade the existing state highway 20 to four lanes so it will connect with US 411 in Rome, which then connects to I-75 near Cartersville, GA. It is likely that a lot of the truck (and other)traffic would prefer the (M-H-A-H) route over I-22 as this route will avoid the heavy congestion around Birmingham and as I-22 connects with I-20 which comes into the Atlanta area south of a lot of the business and population centers of the north metro area. There had been talk in the past of extending the (M-H-A-H) to cut across the far north metro Atlanta suburbs, roughly following the route of GA highway 20 to I-85 on the northeast side of Atlanta. This additional portion, called the "Outer Perimeter", was to be controlled access (and there were discussions of making it a toll road) but has been shelved for now.
Again, big picture it will be a hundred years before this happens... However, if a toll road can build any portion, it will be appreciated.

Georgia's arm won't be terribly hard to twist. They will probably agree to upgrading SR 20/US 411 to interstate standards as soon as they see the ball rolling (shovels hitting dirt) in Alabama. Most of the route as it currently exists in Georgia is easily upgradable to interstate standards. The only major issues are that a bypass would have to be constructed around Rome, and the US 411 Connector between US 41 and I-75 would have to go forward. The latter is pretty certain as GDOT has been actively pursuing that project.

Mississippi, on the other hand, will be more difficult to deal with. The odd thing is that if US 72 were upgraded to full interstate standards, it would be a much more direct connection to downtown Memphis as well, considering the stretch of US 78 in Tennessee for Corridor X is still not a full freeway.

[Rail Claimore]

Originally Posted by | BRAVO |

1) It is clear ALDOT is not concerned with addressing existing congestion issues - otherwise I-65 through North Shelby County would be 8 lanes.

B) It is clear ALDOT is not concerned with future congestion issues- otherwise Huntsville would be seeing some action.

3) It is clear politics is the driving force behind ALDOT's plans - that would explain the 6 lanes currently under construction near the Honda plant in Podunk on I-20.

D) It is clear ALDOT is not concerned with mass transit in the least - anywhere.


I say let's take what we can get and ride on some toll roads.

I agree on all that except #3: That stretch of I-20 sees lots of truck traffic, so six lanes makes sense. Also, the notoriously bad concrete along most of that stretch between Pell City and Anniston was long overdue for replacement. I see no issue with widening an existing route like that so long as it coincides with pavement replacement near the end of (or in this case, way beyond) its existing life cycle. But these new greenfield projects in parts of the state that have not been helped by four-laning of numerous state and US highways is ridiculous.

[| BRAVO |]

Originally Posted by Rail Claimore

I agree on all that except #3: That stretch of I-20 sees lots of truck traffic, so six lanes makes sense. Also, the notoriously bad concrete along most of that stretch between Pell City and Anniston was long overdue for replacement. I see no issue with widening an existing route like that so long as it coincides with pavement replacement near the end of (or in this case, way beyond) its existing life cycle. But these new greenfield projects in parts of the state that have not been helped by four-laning of numerous state and US highways is ridiculous.

I see your point... what baffles me most is they widen I-20 in Talladega County near the Honda plant and in Tuscaloosa County near the Mercedes plant yet it drops to two lanes at I-459 in Birmingham???

Traffic Counts according to ALDOTs website are:

I-20 in Talladega County - 38,000 - being widened to six lanes.
I-20 in East Birmingham - 64,000 - 4 lanes with no visible plans to widen

I-20 in Tuscaloosa County - 45,000 - currently six lanes
I-20 in West Birmingham - 45,000 - 4 lanes with no visible plans to widen

I-65 in North Shelby County - 91,000 - being widened to six lanes - FINALLY

ALDOT
Traffic Count Map

Knock yourself out with the map.
I'll stop hi-jacking your thread now.

[SpawnOfVulcan]

OMG, between Birmingham and Tuscaloosa, those lanes are definitely needed. But, you're point about the narrowing to two lanes at 459 is a very valid one.

[ttownfeen]

Originally Posted by | BRAVO |

Traffic Counts according to ALDOTs website are:

I-20 in Talladega County - 38,000 - being widened to six lanes.
I-20 in East Birmingham - 64,000 - 4 lanes with no visible plans to widen

I-20 in Tuscaloosa County - 45,000 - currently six lanes
I-20 in West Birmingham - 45,000 - 4 lanes with no visible plans to widen

I-65 in North Shelby County - 91,000 - being widened to six lanes - FINALLY

ALDOT
Traffic Count Map

Knock yourself out with the map.
I'll stop hi-jacking your thread now.

Thanks for the website. Are these numbers yearly? Monthly? Daily?

[Rail Claimore]

I was looking for that website. Thanks!

[| BRAVO |]

Originally Posted by ttownfeen

Thanks for the website. Are these numbers yearly? Monthly? Daily?

I'm not certain... they don't make it clear. I think it may be daily.
There is an hourly link on the bottom but I haven't checked it out.

[HSVTiger]

I guess we knew this but now the Decatur mayor has confirmed it.
Is it out of the question to think Bass Pro may be convinced to build at the I-565/Zierdt Rd project?
Or even the development planned at County Line and I-565 which is one of the interchange projects that Governor Riley
announced last week.

From WAFF TV

According to Decatur Mayor Don Stanford, the Sweetwater development project won't happen anytime soon.

Stanford said the project isn't moving along because there's not a resort and conference center to anchor the project. He said he hopes the project will- happen down the road.

Bass Pro Shop is one of the major companies looking to open a store at Sweetwater.

"It's just the fact of getting with them and working the details out to get the Bass Pro Shop to come," Stanford said.

[stewdog1]

Originally Posted by HSVTiger

I guess we knew this but now the Decatur mayor has confirmed it.
Is it out of the question to think Bass Pro may be convinced to build at the I-565/Zierdt Rd project?
Or even the development planned at County Line and I-565 which is one of the interchange projects that Governor Riley
announced last week.

From WAFF TV

According to Decatur Mayor Don Stanford, the Sweetwater development project won't happen anytime soon.

Stanford said the project isn't moving along because there's not a resort and conference center to anchor the project. He said he hopes the project will- happen down the road.

Bass Pro Shop is one of the major companies looking to open a store at Sweetwater.

"It's just the fact of getting with them and working the details out to get the Bass Pro Shop to come," Stanford said.

If I were Mayor Finley I would have already been on the phone with them.