Saskatoon Construction

[Ruckus]

Originally Posted by kgc087

So to achieve the goal of 20 000 people we need some major densification and redevelopment of the downtown. Perhaps if those figures were presented to council they may consider raising the d/t height restrictions to 40 stories. Some great mixed use possibilites come along with that height.

The ongoing discussions and popular talk between city officials suggests this subject is being studied, and policies/development plan are currently taking shape (I recently attended a presentation put on by city planning officials and they indicated a new master plan is expected to be released in 2011. It will be developed with citizen input to gauge appetite for densification, brown field and green field development, and what mix of these philosophies/objectives should Saskatoon pursue, as well as highlighting major implications for our overall urban environment).

[acron]

Originally Posted by SASKFTW

Okay, I've been doing some thinking and number crunching related to people living in the downtown. We all know Mayor Atchison has a goal of getting 10% of Saskatoon's population living in the downtown core, “Everyone now is talking about having 10,000 people living in the downtown core, and I think we need to shift our goals now to 25,000 people living in the downtown core,”.

So with that goal in mind, where and how should we distribute our future downtown residents?

Using the 25,000 population figure, and an average household size of 2.2, we will need 11,363 units constructed in the next decade or so (I can't remember the timeline). 11,363 units is a lot. How many units does a typical downtown hi-rise residential development have? Probably somewhere between 150-250, River Landing Village has around 190 residential units.

Let's use 190 units/bldg for our scenario. So 11,363/190=59.8...60 hi-rises with an average of 190 units/bldg. That's a lot.

Why did I begin thinking about all of this? Well, it began with the creation of a map of potential development sites in Regina. After that, I was anxious to do one for Saskatoon.

I identified 64 vacant/underutilized sites. The list included gravel and paved parking lots, single storey buildings, gas stations, automotive shops, funeral chapels...things that don't belong in a vibrant and livable downtown. I did not include all parking lots/single storey sites as some will likely remain so for unknown reasons.

Of course, those 64 sites were not identical in area, so floorplate sizes/heights can be quite variable.

64 hi-rises, or 12,169 units, and 26,752 residents.

But, let's say half of those sites become developments, so 32 hi-rises, or 6,080 units, and 13,376 residents. How about 25% of those 64 sites, 16 hi-rises? At 190 units/bldg=3,040 units, 2.2 avg. household size, that's 4,000 people. 4,000 is roughly equivalent to our current downtown population, or you could say 16 hi-rises would double our downtown population.

How many do we have in the works? 3 towers, and 3 mid-rise conversions. So maybe 760 units? 1,672 residents.

Lets use the estimated 760 units currently proposed/under construction to project future development within 10 years, and 20 years. 760 units X 10 years =7600 units, or 16,720 residents, and 40 hi-rises. How about 760 over 20 years? 760 X 20=15,200 units, or 33,440 residents, and 80 hi-rises (we must go higher, wider, further, or a combination of all three).

We have a long road ahead of us

We're definitely going to see streetcars, and LRT systems sooner rather than later if we maintain a steady growth trajectory (optimism ).




Source Link

note your largest purple demarcation in the north... that area is an ideal site for an NHL arena or a CFL football stadium. (?? just a thought)

i like the definitiveness of your plan. it is the first step...

[sledhead35]

Originally Posted by SASKFTW

It will be developed with citizen input to gauge appetite for densification, brown field and green field development, and what mix of these philosophies/objectives should Saskatoon pursue, as well as highlighting major implications for our overall urban environment).

it is crucial for us urban enthusiasts to voice our opinion in these situations. it seems (from my experiences) that the more ignorant a person is, the more opinionated they are. this can have devistating consiquenses. for example, there was a proposal for some residential highrise development at the forks here in winnipeg about a month back, and some free press reader comments were posted on the winnipeg forum. it was sad to see how some people want their city to evolve. one reader had sent in a comment that went along the lines of "we must stop development like this at the forks before our downtown becomes a concrete jungle". go figure.

[Ricopedra]

Purple? Why do I see blue? This is how complicated urban planning can become! No kidding, one sees this and the other wants that. NHL? Ha ha! Not in our lifetimes, my friend. Moving on out is a better option. But it is nice to see that Saskatoon could be gaining some ground on Prince Albert's skyline with these new project announcements! Seriously, Saskatoon's going to look good compared to thirty years ago in the next few years. ;>)

[acron]

Originally Posted by Ricopedra

Purple? Why do I see blue? This is how complicated urban planning can become! No kidding, one sees this and the other wants that. NHL? Ha ha! Not in our lifetimes, my friend. Moving on out is a better option. But it is nice to see that Saskatoon could be gaining some ground on Prince Albert's skyline with these new project announcements! Seriously, Saskatoon's going to look good compared to thirty years ago in the next few years. ;>)

first, i'm partially colorblind so i see purple when its actually blue lol.
secondly, laugh at me now, but there will be a team here in 15 years.

food for thought - i read a study in the hockey news a few years ago that stated that saskatchewan has produced more NHL hockey players throughout history than any jurisdiction on earth! (i can't remember with certainty if it was per capita or real numbers). the sask players have typically been the grinder 3/4th line farm boys that never get the spot light, but apparently more player have come from this province than anywhere. regina can keep the riders, while saskatoon will take the islanders

[Ruckus]

I edited the potential site development map to include a few more underutilized plots of land, as well as the currently proposed, under construction, and approved projects.

77 (blue) underutilized sites, 24 (red) currently under development (U/C, Proposed, Approved).

One can observe the potential for TOD nodes along the rail line after being converted for LRT use.


Source Link

[Ruckus]

Originally Posted by Ricopedra

Purple? Why do I see blue? This is how complicated urban planning can become! No kidding, one sees this and the other wants that. NHL? Ha ha! Not in our lifetimes, my friend. Moving on out is a better option. But it is nice to see that Saskatoon could be gaining some ground on Prince Albert's skyline with these new project announcements! Seriously, Saskatoon's going to look good compared to thirty years ago in the next few years. ;>)

There is some truth to your perspective, but, I disagree with the NHL not in our lifetimes statement (I don't need to expand on it, just know that sometimes dreams do come true ).

I see you are based in Taiwan. So an obvious question to you is, why are you interested in Saskatoon development? Are you a former resident of Saskatchewan?

[Ruckus]

Originally Posted by acron

note your largest purple demarcation in the north... that area is an ideal site for an NHL arena or a CFL football stadium. (?? just a thought)

i like the definitiveness of your plan. it is the first step...

I agree. I didn't highlight the other large tracts of land in the north, there is a few ideal sites around that general area.

However, there are discussions/plans that could lead to that land being used for other purposes. I've read about SIAST looking to expand their campus. They are looking at land in close proximity to their existing facilities, building higher, or relocating the entire campus to another location in the city where they wouldn't be constrained.

The stadium idea could be kaput.

[Ruckus]

Originally Posted by sledhead35

it is crucial for us urban enthusiasts to voice our opinion in these situations. it seems (from my experiences) that the more ignorant a person is, the more opinionated they are. this can have devistating consiquenses. for example, there was a proposal for some residential highrise development at the forks here in winnipeg about a month back, and some free press reader comments were posted on the winnipeg forum. it was sad to see how some people want their city to evolve. one reader had sent in a comment that went along the lines of "we must stop development like this at the forks before our downtown becomes a concrete jungle". go figure.

I have noticed this as well. Very rarely are we confronted/made aware of outspoken, well-informed, individuals.

I have noticed similar attitudes in the the Star Phoenix reader comments. Such ignorance provides further evidence that our cities require strong counter movements to minimize the impact of damaging, delusional, inaccurate views from residents who provide little value to the broader discussion and decision making processes.

[kgc087]

I would really love to see a second stadium built closer to downtown, it would be really nice to have it along the north d/t bordering the warehouse district, it would really secure a strong vibe of entertainment. In regards to a strong voice, there probably aren't many more people more dedicated in the city to a vision then we all are, we have a forum about it! So a possible suggestion is perhaps maybe we should beging to formally compose our ideas and compile them to send off and/or present to council. Not only once but multiple times and really in regards to almost every development, if the traditional no development lover can say something about nothing and be heard why can't we when we have something to say about something. We all have a vision that is a vision of progression and a major image overhaul, which I feel council, specifically Atch. will REALLY appreciate.

[acron]

many years ago i was walking home from a house party with my friend, larry letmeinyourhouse. we were polluted and as i turned a corner i walked straight into a tree. while i sat on the sidewalk and scratched my nose straight up at the You Know Who, a construction brick fell from a tree and hit me on the head... an idea entered my mind... i got excited and ran home as fast as i could, then i went to bed and forgot about it until a little while ago while i was building a little snow fort with my friends...

so... seeing how the U of S is the largest employer in saskatoon, and the fact that there is a major housing shortage for the students, i think it would be a great idea to build a new student housing complex! it should go right behind the williams building on cumberland avenue. those big soccer fields sit there most of the year without a purpose. i think a couple of 4-5 floor buildings could occupy those fields and make the university a LOT of money. this would be far better than have the students pay rent to live on the edge of the city in random basements. it would be right next door to griffiths stadium to those huskie games and a five minute walk from campus. perhaps "they" could build a road for easy access from cumberland avenue cutting right into the field between the williams building and the university highrises...

what do you guys think??

[Ruckus]

Originally Posted by kgc087

I would really love to see a second stadium built closer to downtown, it would be really nice to have it along the north d/t bordering the warehouse district, it would really secure a strong vibe of entertainment. In regards to a strong voice, there probably aren't many more people more dedicated in the city to a vision then we all are, we have a forum about it! So a possible suggestion is perhaps maybe we should beging to formally compose our ideas and compile them to send off and/or present to council. Not only once but multiple times and really in regards to almost every development, if the traditional no development lover can say something about nothing and be heard why can't we when we have something to say about something. We all have a vision that is a vision of progression and a major image overhaul, which I feel council, specifically Atch. will REALLY appreciate.

Formally composing our ideas, sending and/or presenting them could have a significant influence with respect to city planning. But even better, we could also engage community associations/groups and possibly private developers.

If we expect/want our city to develop differently, we must seek a deeper understanding (e.g. beliefs, perceptions, attitudes, objectives) of all stakeholders. With our new insights, we could launch a successful strategy to shape other interest groups, get them on our side, and create a formal alliance with much greater authority/influence.

Talking about all this is easy though, progressing to the next stage (action) is a completely different ball game.

Personally, I don't feel mature/dedicated enough to become part of a public counter movement...well I shouldn't say that. Rather, I'm more inclined to work behind the scenes until I become comfortable with my surroundings. I'm not yet comfortable with my surroundings (e.g. understanding positions of stakeholders, urban planning theories/concepts...etc).

That's just me though. If someone else wants to be the driver of a more serious/engaging counter movement, go for it, and I'll do my best to support you (wing man).

[kgc087]

Not to nominate myself, but I would be more then willing to take on a role to promote a positive saskatoon construction group, being a student my time would be limited but I think through proper group management and cooperation we could make this work, understanding about the planning etc is integral, but I feel, and most of you could agree that we already have a MUCH better understanding of what should and shouldn't be done in regards to development then most of the verbal diarrhea produced by the cities citizens. So initially a focus on getting noticed then progressively working into a more solid reinforcement of our ideas through actual numbers etc. would be a good idea

[Ruckus]

Originally Posted by acron

many years ago i was walking home from a house party with my friend, larry letmeinyourhouse. we were polluted and as i turned a corner i walked straight into a tree. while i sat on the sidewalk and scratched my nose straight up at the You Know Who, a construction brick fell from a tree and hit me on the head... an idea entered my mind... i got excited and ran home as fast as i could, then i went to bed and forgot about it until a little while ago while i was building a little snow fort with my friends...

so... seeing how the U of S is the largest employer in saskatoon, and the fact that there is a major housing shortage for the students, i think it would be a great idea to build a new student housing complex! it should go right behind the williams building on cumberland avenue. those big soccer fields sit there most of the year without a purpose. i think a couple of 4-5 floor buildings could occupy those fields and make the university a LOT of money. this would be far better than have the students pay rent to live on the edge of the city in random basements. it would be right next door to griffiths stadium to those huskie games and a five minute walk from campus. perhaps "they" could build a road for easy access from cumberland avenue cutting right into the field between the williams building and the university highrises...

what do you guys think??

Honestly, the first paragraph sounds like some kind of riddle, probably a metaphor for a major urban development.

Your second paragraph is an interesting concept, but those soccer fields must serve some purpose? Are they just practice fields, or do they hold games/tournaments there too? I admit, I'm not well informed with the Saskatoon soccer scene.

4-5 storey buildings is an appropriate scale, an ideal location too. One criticism I do have is the lack of adjacent amenities (food stores, or would students just eat the marquis hall food...maybe a shoppers drug mart or independently run grocer could fit in there somewhere?). Would there be additional parking created, or is the stadium parkade and gravel lots surrounding the Mceown Park residences be sufficient? I am also quite curious how would these student residences become integrated with future development (e.g. full build out of the College Quarter concept)?

Images shot by me in June 2007.

[kgc087]

Some reinforcing words, I was doing an onsite lab today, and everyone I was working with was not from Saskatoon. One was from Vancouver, another from close to winnipeg and the other two were from small town SK. The women from Vancouver could not express enough to me how beautiful this city is and she could not get over how much art and intriguing things there are d/t, the one from Winnipeg area said she couldnt get over how bustling it seems and how much there is to do with a city this size and the other two small towners said its just a good city to be in. This made me proud to live here and really helps reassure that we are doing something right if people from all over are impressed with the city.

[Ruckus]

Originally Posted by kgc087

Not to nominate myself, but I would be more then willing to take on a role to promote a positive saskatoon construction group, being a student my time would be limited but I think through proper group management and cooperation we could make this work, understanding about the planning etc is integral, but I feel, and most of you could agree that we already have a MUCH better understanding of what should and shouldn't be done in regards to development then most of the verbal diarrhea produced by the cities citizens. So initially a focus on getting noticed then progressively working into a more solid reinforcement of our ideas through actual numbers etc. would be a good idea

I as well.

I think one way of getting noticed would be to produce some amateur research papers (nothing too extensive, but serious enough to stimulate the senses)...I could do something related to S'toon urban development for a course paper, then just post it up on SSP...and/or send a summary or copy to council/community associations/developers. Its worth a shot I suppose.

What kind of topic/issue should I write about though? What should the public/planning officials be more aware/informed about...?

[Ruckus]

Originally Posted by kgc087

Some reinforcing words, I was doing an onsite lab today, and everyone I was working with was not from Saskatoon. One was from Vancouver, another from close to winnipeg and the other two were from small town SK. The women from Vancouver could not express enough to me how beautiful this city is and she could not get over how much art and intriguing things there are d/t, the one from Winnipeg area said she couldnt get over how bustling it seems and how much there is to do with a city this size and the other two small towners said its just a good city to be in. This made me proud to live here and really helps reassure that we are doing something right if people from all over are impressed with the city.

That's great to hear.

I'm always uplifted when visitors enjoy their experiences in Saskatoon

It certainly is reassuring, and more importantly, it fosters an increased optimism that we (the residents) can successfully improve our city, and in turn, attract more like minded positive thinkers. Its a cycle of sorts, positive begets positive...but such positivism must be rooted in reality. The positive visual/experiential affirmations (river, public art, architecture, people) within the city affirm the outward/inward emotional state of all people who come into contact with such affirmations. However, similarity, negative begets negative (neglected housing/properties, wayward youth, barren landscapes, entrapment areas, criminally inclined individuals).

[ninipanini]

It would be great if the university could build some housing on those soccer fields! The only thing that I would wonder about is how they would pay for it?!? I think they've had a difficult time getting money for building new residences further down Cumberland (I think it was about $19M or so), so while it's a GREAT I don't know where the money would come from... maybe some sort of stimulus package?

As far as access to food goes, its really not that long of a walk to Safeway/Sobeys on 8th, only about 10 minutes or so. If access to full service grocery stores will hinder development anywhere it will be in the core.

By the say, I really like the new map SASKFTW good work.

[acron]

[QUOTE=SASKFTW;4064189]Honestly, the first paragraph sounds like some kind of riddle, probably a metaphor for a major urban development.

Your second paragraph is an interesting concept, but those soccer fields must serve some purpose? Are they just practice fields, or do they hold games/tournaments there too? I admit, I'm not well informed with the Saskatoon soccer scene.

4-5 storey buildings is an appropriate scale, an ideal location too. One criticism I do have is the lack of adjacent amenities (food stores, or would students just eat the marquis hall food...maybe a shoppers drug mart or independently run grocer could fit in there somewhere?). Would there be additional parking created, or is the stadium parkade and gravel lots surrounding the Mceown Park residences be sufficient? I am also quite curious how would these student residences become integrated with future development (e.g. full build out of the College Quarter concept)?

Images shot by me in June 2007.


great input about the amenities! i will talk to a few people, see if we can get the ball rolling on this. keep the ideas going all of you guys, you never know who your thoughts may inspire...

[acron]

Originally Posted by ninipanini

It would be great if the university could build some housing on those soccer fields! The only thing that I would wonder about is how they would pay for it?!? I think they've had a difficult time getting money for building new residences further down Cumberland (I think it was about $19M or so), so while it's a GREAT I don't know where the money would come from... maybe some sort of stimulus package?

As far as access to food goes, its really not that long of a walk to Safeway/Sobeys on 8th, only about 10 minutes or so. If access to full service grocery stores will hinder development anywhere it will be in the core.

By the say, I really like the new map SASKFTW good work.

here's the thing.. no one ever really knows 'where' money comes from! money is just some concept people made up to measure utility... it is a vehicle that puts people together to carry out great ideas. so money is really secondary. if you have a great idea, money finds you! ideas shape this world, not money. (oh and this year the U of S attracted record outside investment, so they may have a little bit of that stuff in their coffers...)