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  #781  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2009, 11:01 PM
deasine deasine is offline
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Originally Posted by officedweller View Post
Thanks!
What are the screens that look like those roll down bamboo screens? (but these are in different colours?) Are those permanent - they block the windows (i.e. view).
I have a feeling they are permanent. Most likely used for privacy but still providing transparency.
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  #782  
Old Posted Jan 31, 2009, 6:42 AM
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Critics of Olympic village deal are spouting nonsense: Sam Sullivan


By Don Cayo, Vancouver Sun
January 30, 2009 10:31 PM

Critics of Vancouver city council’s role in the Olympic village are spouting alarmist nonsense and taxpayers should relax, says former mayor Sam Sullivan.

Despite at least $125 million in cost overruns and the unexpected need for the city to underwrite up to $850 million (the project’s full cost), “It won’t add a dime to your taxes,” Sullivan told me in an exclusive interview.

“In fact, it’ll come to be seen as a marvellous legacy — the greenest housing development anywhere. And in the end it will make hundreds of millions of dollars for the city’s Property Endowment Fund.”


The four-term councillor and one-term mayor, who did not re-offer after losing his party’s nomination, had told me in an earlier private chat that he was delighting in being out of the spotlight. He has been planning his next career move — he isn’t saying what, other than it’s not politics — and catching up on the reading and other intellectual pursuits that he had to set aside when he won the mayoralty in 2005.

He’s back into the fray with this interview and an article he wrote for the new city caucus website —citycaucus.com — because, he said, he wants to reassure citizens and defend staff and workers who planned and are building the site.

“People are conflicted when they hear my take on it after listening to the noisemakers and seeing the headlines,” he said. “But I’m telling everyone it’ll have no impact on taxes: Zero.”

The reason? City hall conducts its business with two pools of money. Its operating budget has a one-year horizon — taxes in, services out. But the timeline for the multibillion-dollar Property Endowment Fund is decades. And that’s where the financial hit — if condo prices don’t recover in time to produce a profit — will be absorbed.

Sullivan noted that when he was first elected in 1993, this fund was worth just over $1 billion. Today it’s almost $3 billion thanks to a strategy that not only turned a profit, but also turned City Hall into Vancouver’s largest landowner and developer. And it helped finance countless worthy amenities, including thousands of social housing units.

If the whole Olympic village deal turns into a dead loss — an almost inconceivable outcome as it would mean zero value for hundreds of new waterfront condos — the upshot, he said, would be that the fund’s profit over the last 15 years would total just $500 million instead of $1.5 billion.

A more realistic risk, he said, is that the current slump in condo prices and sales could pare the fund’s 15-year profit from $1.5 billion to something in the range of $1.3 billion.


“And how many cities would just love to have that problem?”

Still, I noted, some critics argue that governments should not be involved at all in the business side of development. He responded that, if this were the case in Vancouver, the city could never have accumulated the huge endowment fund it uses to finance its big projects.

Sullivan also argued that, when the Olympic village costs are tallied, it’s unfair to count all of the roughly $300 million the city invested in site preparation. This included not only things such as roads and utilities, but also shoring up the land itself so it won’t slide into False Creek.

The Olympic village, he said, will occupy only about a sixth of the developable land that benefits from this work. So this cost must be apportioned to future projects, as well as the one under way now.


Sullivan noted that he no longer has the benefit of briefings and research from city hall staff, and he didn’t know why — if the picture is still essentially rosy — the city’s credit rating has been put on watch by one agency and down-graded by another.

“One reason it was so high in the first place was the Property Endowment Fund,” he said.

And now, “Maybe it’s the headlines. They [ratings agencies] read this stuff, too.”


But he returned again and again to the quality of the development — the 50-per-cent parkland, the mix of market and non-market housing, the quality of amenities, the completion a 22-kilometre walking and bicycle path — to underscore his faith that the Olympic village is near-certain to turn a profit over time.

And the endowment fund will also be an asset long into the future if it’s managed properly, he said.

“Most cities cannibalize their land holdings and use them to subsidize taxes,” he said. “If our city councils continue to have the discipline to protect these assets, we’ll have future city councils that are able to do equally impressive projects.”

[email protected]
© Copyright (c) The Vancouver Sun






Finally some decent reporting about the Village....only 4 weeks too late, the damage has been done.
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  #783  
Old Posted Jan 31, 2009, 8:07 AM
ravman ravman is offline
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Originally Posted by mr.x2 View Post
Critics of Olympic village deal are spouting nonsense: Sam Sullivan

SAM is a disgrace to the City of Vancouver! He couldnt not run the city for past term and even his party hated him! We got change and it is time for us to stand back and watch Gregor and the Vision clean up the mess and restore the glory of the Larry Campbell days! But yes everything is going to be alright... the good guys are here!
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  #784  
Old Posted Jan 31, 2009, 8:09 AM
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^ as much as I hated Sam, you didn't even address the article but went for your usual "raw raw raw!" campaigning.
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  #785  
Old Posted Jan 31, 2009, 8:10 AM
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^ as much as I hated Sam, you didn't even address the article but went for your usual "raw raw raw!" campaigning.
the article is a total BS.... what more can i say
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  #786  
Old Posted Jan 31, 2009, 8:25 AM
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the article is a total BS.... what more can i say
Sounds pretty factual to me, would be rather ridiculous of him to outright lie on how the city functions (would be like saying 2+2=5 or the earth is a cube)....there's only so far an extent one can lie about certain things, not to mention that Sullivan doesn't really have any reason to lie now that he's out of office:




“People are conflicted when they hear my take on it after listening to the noisemakers and seeing the headlines,” he said. “But I’m telling everyone it’ll have no impact on taxes: Zero.”

The reason? City hall conducts its business with two pools of money. Its operating budget has a one-year horizon — taxes in, services out. But the timeline for the multibillion-dollar Property Endowment Fund is decades. And that’s where the financial hit — if condo prices don’t recover in time to produce a profit — will be absorbed.

Sullivan also argued that, when the Olympic village costs are tallied, it’s unfair to count all of the roughly $300 million the city invested in site preparation. This included not only things such as roads and utilities, but also shoring up the land itself so it won’t slide into False Creek.

The Olympic village, he said, will occupy only about a sixth of the developable land that benefits from this work. So this cost must be apportioned to future projects, as well as the one under way now.

Sullivan noted that when he was first elected in 1993, this fund was worth just over $1 billion. Today it’s almost $3 billion thanks to a strategy that not only turned a profit, but also turned City Hall into Vancouver’s largest landowner and developer. And it helped finance countless worthy amenities, including thousands of social housing units.

If the whole Olympic village deal turns into a dead loss — an almost inconceivable outcome as it would mean zero value for hundreds of new waterfront condos — the upshot, he said, would be that the fund’s profit over the last 15 years would total just $500 million instead of $1.5 billion.

A more realistic risk, he said, is that the current slump in condo prices and sales could pare the fund’s 15-year profit from $1.5 billion to something in the range of $1.3 billion.






It's quite unfortunate how you're unable to realize all those NDP news releases you post as B.S. ..... what more can i say.
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  #787  
Old Posted Jan 31, 2009, 9:46 AM
deasine deasine is offline
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It's funny 'cuz Larry Campbell told the press during the last week before the elections that the Olympic Village really wasn't as big as how Robertson and the VVs portrayed it to be.
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  #788  
Old Posted Jan 31, 2009, 1:03 PM
dreambrother808 dreambrother808 is offline
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Originally Posted by ravman View Post
the article is a total BS.... what more can i say
well you could actually formulate a coherent argument rather than just posting empty rhetoric
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  #789  
Old Posted Jan 31, 2009, 4:00 PM
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Just to give this debate some balance, here the latest news. I think we can expect similar announcements in years to come (I would love to be wrong)….

Six per cent tax hike proposed for Vancouver property owners



Published: Thursday, January 29, 2009

VANCOUVER - Vancouver property owners could see their tax bills rise by about six per cent this year, says a report previewing the city's 2009 budget.
The proposed tax hike of 6.29 per cent for all classes of property would allow the city to maintain existing service levels and cover new funding proposals.
Vancouver homeowners face a bigger hike - 8.29 per cent - than other property owners.
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  #790  
Old Posted Jan 31, 2009, 6:21 PM
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Tax this tax that...we will be getting tax hikes year after year...

(I hope I am wrong either!!)
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of its parts into the simplest terms,
Getting back to first principles"


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  #791  
Old Posted Jan 31, 2009, 6:42 PM
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here's a general comment on a few things:

there'll be residential property tax hikes for each of the coming five years, but it's not because of the olympic village fiasco. rather, it's because vision is following through on sam/npa's idiotic plan to readjust the relative property tax burden, as a means of reducing tax on business in vancouver. in effect, they're making the best of a bad situation, the bad situation being the limitations in taxation/borrowing power inherent in the vancouver charter. were vancouver granted u.s. city-like taxation powers, the city would have many more options (municipal sales tax or municipal bonds, for instance), alleviating the need to choose between business and residential increases to raise revenue.

to this point, the city's been fortunate (and creative) enough to leverage the property endowment fund for more favorable credit terms, but here's another idea, somewhat in line with the sefc plan that seems to be forming: if this works out okay, the city might find it interesting to look toward developing a for-profit real estate wing of the city government.

at any rate, something has to give - residential property taxes are already too high and they're relatively lower than they'll be ever again.
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  #792  
Old Posted Feb 1, 2009, 12:04 AM
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I actually support the business to residential tax shift, by doing so over a 5yr period we will greatly reduced the burden on businesses which should help attract additional offices and commercial space. The fact is our property taxes are quite low. My in-laws pay more in Regina then I do and they still have to pay for water on top of that.
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  #793  
Old Posted Feb 1, 2009, 3:21 AM
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Here are some comments made by Bob Rennie over conference call at the Student Olympic Conference at UBC regarding the Olympic Village:

-of the little spaces left in the Downtown core, they are being saved for future office use, and employees are going to need places to live without the reliance of the car -- SEFC
-Olympic Village will be a community that would not require parking stalls because of the transportation access the area has
-Gregor Robertson is throwing gasoline into the fire, and should be embracing the future opening of the Olympic Village
-Downtown Vancouver is a resort city
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  #794  
Old Posted Feb 1, 2009, 4:48 AM
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^ LOL, i tried really hard not to laugh when he said downtown was a resort city....like really? Talk about wanting to cash in.

He also said that we should basically give up on our head office dream.
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  #795  
Old Posted Feb 1, 2009, 4:57 AM
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I would, for the most part, agree that Downtown is pretty much a resort city with office towers sprinkled in.

Not that there is anything WRONG with that. Living in Downtown Vancouver is a total treat.
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  #796  
Old Posted Feb 1, 2009, 5:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Kodii View Post
Here are some comments made by Bob Rennie over conference call at the Student Olympic Conference at UBC regarding the Olympic Village:

-of the little spaces left in the Downtown core, they are being saved for future office use, and employees are going to need places to live without the reliance of the car -- SEFC
-Olympic Village will be a community that would not require parking stalls because of the transportation access the area has
-Gregor Robertson is throwing gasoline into the fire, and should be embracing the future opening of the Olympic Village
-Downtown Vancouver is a resort city
I think that's a very short-sighted opinion. What if you're driving from out of town with a car full of visitors, or a truck full of boxes, to visit somebody in SEFC. No parking?!
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  #797  
Old Posted Feb 1, 2009, 6:49 AM
officedweller officedweller is offline
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Here's the reply I got from the City regarding the dragon boat facility in NEFC - note the comment on SEFC - not enough parking, so they'll limit use of the facility there (emphasis added) - basically that means that the hundreds of paddlers who practice each night won't be patronizing the cafes and restaurants of SEFC (note that paddlers travel in after work from as far as Langley to come to practices, so many have to drive, esp. with gear and change of clothes, etc.):

Quote:
Thank you for the e-mail about the need for a dragon boat facility in NEFC. As out know our display materials at the open house did not provide this material since our topic was high level land use. However, many people are interested in the topic.

According, we will be posting the information below along with the 2006 concept plan for the extension to creekside park on our web page. Check it next week at vancouver.ca/nefc.

There are two non-motorised boating facilities intended for the east end of False Creek.

The first one is the SEFC boating centre that is part of the SEFC community centre currently under construction. That facility is targeted for many different types of boating, in particular kayak/canoe, rowing, dragon boating and possibly outrigger canoeing. There will be some boat storage on land inside the community centre, mostly for beginner kayaks, and two boat sheds on water: one for canoes/kayaks and one for rowing. There will be space for two or three dragon boats permanently moored in the water. Given the very limited parking available in SEFC, the boating facility will have to be programmed to minimise the need for parking by focussing on local boaters, youth teams, etc.

A second facility is planned for the Creekside Park extension north of Science World. That facility is intended to become the major dragon boat facility in the city, replacing the existing Dragonzone that is currently located south of Science World. The intended size for that is to harbour 12 to 18 dragon boats, in addition to other team boats like outrigger canoes and rowing shells. The facility is included in the conceptual design for the Creekside Park extension plan that was done in 2006. Since then there has been a more extensive discussion about boating needs, and there may be revisions made to this planned "dragon boat centre".

Paula Huber
Central Area Planning
City of Vancouver
Phone: 604.871.6013
e-mail: [email protected]
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  #798  
Old Posted Feb 1, 2009, 10:00 AM
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^ Well I think that's good news that the city is planning a permanent home for the dragon boaters in FC. It is however incredibly shortsighted that they didn't include the facility as part of the olympic village.

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I would, for the most part, agree that Downtown is pretty much a resort city with office towers sprinkled in.

Not that there is anything WRONG with that. Living in Downtown Vancouver is a total treat.
There's plenty wrong with that and I disagree with your and Bob Rennie's opinion.To qualify as a resort city the amount of jobs in downtown Vancouver related to tourism should out number all other jobs in the city. I highly doubt this is the case.
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  #799  
Old Posted Feb 1, 2009, 10:05 AM
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Could be that the developers didn't want hoards of paddlers warming up under their condos' windows each evening and weekend morning?
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  #800  
Old Posted Feb 1, 2009, 11:40 PM
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Originally Posted by jlousa View Post
I actually support the business to residential tax shift, by doing so over a 5yr period we will greatly reduced the burden on businesses which should help attract additional offices and commercial space. The fact is our property taxes are quite low. My in-laws pay more in Regina then I do and they still have to pay for water on top of that.
well, i don't know. property taxes in vancouver were about .45% in 2008, set to increase to about .7% over the next several years, starting with this latest budget. you're right j-lo, in absolute terms, that's a bargain compared with somewhere like montreal (1.04%) or san francisco (1.14%).

but here's where the problem lies: the average home price in montreal, for instance, is about $265,000, compared with the average home price in vancouver of around $560,000. now, i know that vancouver is a resort town and it's the best place on earth and all that, but if that .7% comes to pass, it'll bring the average vanadian household's tax bill to somewhere around $3900. you could compare that with the average tax bill in montreal of around $2600, but really, that would just make you depressed.

from the development side, low property tax rates were an important part of the condo boom in vancouver, and higher tax rates will have some effects. from the homeowner side, it's a damned nuisance to turn over a few hundred dollars more every year to the city (especially if they're still ticketing you for 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 jaywalking...grrrr....). from the policy side of it, if the city had more chops, we could move to reduce the burden on business and recuperate the revenues from another source.

incidentally, san francisco's average home price is about the same as vancouver's (in u.s. dollars), making home ownership in that city a punishing venture. a $10,000 property tax bill is a perfectly normal thing. but san francisco happens to be one of the world's most famous cities, so one imagines that there's a premium for that. by the way, for those of you thinking of making the jump from sleepy vanada, rents have been dropping there in recent months, which is very rare. the invulnerable fortress has been breached.
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